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[theb0xmIke]

In a non hostile way, why characteristic of bloom makes it "modern" because COD did it?

yeah not because Cod did it.

Halo pretty much introduced me pretty much to FPS gaming. After this event i got into BF2/2142 for a few years and while gaming on the PC i realised i wished how Halo would have something like bloom and bigger battles like PC gaming. I don't want to argue with anybody but it's honestly how i feel.

Bloom makes you pace your shots and makes you think about the situation. 2142 made this very apparent to me and gave you a massive skill advantage when used in the right situation.

(Krylov FTW)

 

[Elginer]

Not a fan of the bloom. What in the hell are you going on about good sir?

 

[Tashi]

Don't worry Mike, as a fellow bloom supporter, I have your back. Fight the good fight! Except for when you say dramatic things like Halo being a modern FPS because of bloom. Halo has always been modern to me. Never felt old or outdated.

 

[feel]

HEY GUYS HALOFEST THREAD!


take all of that here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=437249&page=367

 

[Booshka]

My biggest issue with bloom is that it is based too much on connection. It makes no sense to me that the quality of the connection should affect the accuracy of your weapon. What I am getting at is that Tashi likes Bloom because he has an amazing connection.

Seriously though, if Bloom was consistent like it is on LAN, and maybe even a little more severe so that DMR spamming wasn't so effective close to mid range, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.

The biggest problem with Reach mp is the sluggish player movement speed and lack of effective strafing.

 

[MrBig]

yeah not because Cod did it.

Halo pretty much introduced me pretty much to FPS gaming. After this event i got into BF2/2142 for a few years and while gaming on the PC i realised i wished how Halo would have something like bloom and bigger battles like PC gaming. I don't want to argue with anybody but it's honestly how i feel.

Bloom makes you pace your shots and makes you think about the situation. 2142 made this very apparent to me and gave you a massive skill advantage when used in the right situation.

(Krylov FTW)

Halo has always been an extension of the Quake arena style gameplay. The play style is so exceedingly different that you can't just say "hey this would be cool" and mix them up together. That kind of dependant randomness is just unacceptable. I've been playing games for 12 or so years. Halo is what changed my perception of gaming and change my life by moving me to a career in the arts. I've basically abandoned playing Reach now because someone thought that would be a cool addition, among other things. I take it as an insult.

 

[theb0xmIke]

Don't worry Mike, as a fellow bloom supporter, I have your back. Fight the good fight! Except for when you say dramatic things like Halo being a modern FPS because of bloom. Halo has always been modern to me. Never felt old or outdated.

haha yeah fair enough i suppose i was trying to just grab peoples attention with a dramatic quote

 

[The Real Napsta]

Bloom is fine. It's poorly implemented on Halo Reach. It also should not be on precision weapons.

It can stay on the AR and plasma repeater.

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

I don't claim to be, and I've been here long enough to grasp how things work. I can grasp it to the point where I know someone supporting bloom in a HaloGAF thread is not going to win the battle, and is going to get ridiculed, disagree?

Fixed.

Junior status or any other status has little to no baring on how credible one's position may be. While I'm not in agreement with his stance on bloom, theb0xmIke's ability to hold a discussion has more to do with the legitimacy of his points based on the content of his posts and less to do with his forum title and/or lack of an avatar. I just find the whole junior/join date thing (which is quite common in most if not all forums) a tad silly.

 

[kittens]

Fair enough

Look i've been a huge Halo Fan since 2001 and bloom is really just one of many things that halo needed to be become the modern FPS, i mean did u really want Bungie just to make a Halo 3 with a Reach settings? Look everybody has their own opinions but if you think you ill just bow down because i'm a junior to this site...

You're defending bloom just because it's new and "modern"? Change can be good, but sometimes it's bad. And bloom is baaaaaaaaaad.

The anti-bloom analysis here on GAF is that bloom turns marksmanship into a dice roll. Even when you pace your shots, you're never quite sure how bloom will react, and where your bullets will end up landing. Add in the inconsistencies of host, and it's even more frustrating.

Edit: I saw your other post, and it makes more sense. But I still don't agree.

In other news: HOLY CRAP A PANEL WITH MARTY AND STATEN. <3<3<3

 

[Booshka]

Fixed.

Junior status or any other status has little to no baring on how credible one's position may be. While I'm not in agreement with his stance on bloom, theb0xmIke's ability to hold a discussion has more to do with the legitimacy of his points based on the content of his posts and less to do with his forum title and/or lack of an avatar. I just find the whole junior/join date thing (which is quite common in most if not all forums) a tad silly.

Pretty much, you shouldn't ridicule someone because of their join date, or their opinion even. Ridicule their argument and win that way. Just hating on a guy because you disagree with his opinion and attacking them because they don't have an avatar or Member status is actually very Junior of you Starwolf

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

The thing with bloom is that is does not belong in the Halo gameplay, at least when it comes down to long range weapons as the DMR. There are many other games are played at high level that also have bloom. The difference is the hit damage. In modern combat shooters for example, firing a single shot weapon anywhere above the waistline does a significant amount of damage. Simply but, you can '4 shot' an enemy by shooting at the torso. In halo that's different. You won't have much trouble with the bloom if you're a player that doesn't neccecaraly aim for the head, if you do however it could get annoying. In comparison, Halo's head are traditional shooters' torso's. And becouse of the difference in size of the targets, bloom could be an annoyance.

I hope that I can make my thoughts on the subject clear by these words. I can't really explain it.

 

[Tashi]

Pretty much, you shouldn't ridicule someone because of their join date, or their opinion even. Ridicule their argument and win that way. Just hating on a guy because you disagree with his opinion and attacking them because they don't have an avatar or Member status is actually very Junior of you Starwolf

Last thing I'll say about all this is that it's easy to sit and make fun of a person when your side of the argument is the overwhelmingly popular one.

I'd say your skills are Junior sir!

 

[soldat7]

The anti-bloom analysis here on GAF is that bloom turns marksmanship into a dice roll. Even when you pace your shots, you're never quite sure how bloom will react, and where your bullets will end up landing. Add in the inconsistencies of host, and it's even more frustrating.

HaloGAF has been complaining about the effects of lag and host for years. Complaining about bloom on the DMR is akin to complaining about the BR, melee, and sweep sniping of yore.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Fixed.

Junior status or any other status has little to no baring on how credible one's position may be. While I'm not in agreement with his stance on bloom, theb0xmIke's ability to hold a discussion has more to do with the legitimacy of his points based on the content of his posts and less to do with his forum title and/or lack of an avatar. I just find the whole junior/join date thing (which is quite common in most if not all forums) a tad silly.

I think you all misunderstand me.

I don't think its right to junior bash either, again I've been here long enough to understand other people are going to do exactly that.

I'd love to hear his points and his reasons for why he supports bloom.

Even if we don't share the same viewpoint, I'm not hating on him.

 

[Booshka]

HaloGAF has been complaining about the effects of lag and host for years. Complaining about bloom on the DMR is akin to complaining about the BR, melee, and sweep sniping of yore.

Not the same thing at all, connection affecting your weapon's accuracy is bullshit.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Isn't there suppose to be some live steam by now at ign?

 

[Slightly Live]

Isn't there suppose to be some live steam by now at ign?

Today starts two hours later than yesterday. So an hour and forty minutes from now for the next live streamed panel.

 

[Karl2177]

I think you all misunderstand me.

I don't think its right to junior bash either, again I've been here long enough to understand other people are going to do exactly that.

I'd love to hear his points and his reasons for why he supports bloom.

Even if we don't share the same viewpoint, I'm not hating on him.

Still called him out on it, whether your intentions were good or bad.

Are the videos on IGN's website going to be put up on YouTube? Or will I be forced to wait for Waypoint to put them up? (I'm just not fond of the IGN video player)

 

[Tashi]

Not the same thing at all, connection affecting your weapon's accuracy is bullshit.

You have to explain this some more. The only difference for me is playing on host vs off host. You have to aim higher for a headshot on host.

 

[Recarpo]

Isn't there suppose to be some live steam by now at ign?

There's a replay of the halo anniversary panel from yesterday being shown right now it looks like, but the new ones for today start in about an hour and a half.

 

[Booshka]

You have to explain this some more. The only difference for me is playing on host vs off host. You have to aim higher for a headshot on host.

For me and a lot of people on my friends list that I have talked to, they notice a discrepancy with the bloom reset rate on different connections. So if you are host, you will have the intended Bloom reset rate, whereas off host and depending on your connection to the host, your bloom reset rate will be worse to varying degrees. This is the bullshit I am talking about. Mastering bloom is all about timing and deciding when to spam and when to pace, and everywhere in between, so if your bloom reset rate is different game to game, it totally throws off that timing, and really breaks the mechanic.

 

[Tashi]

For me and a lot of people on my friends list that I have talked to, they notice a discrepancy with the bloom reset rate on different connections. So if you are host, you will have the intended Bloom reset rate, whereas off host and depending on your connection to the host, your bloom reset rate will be worse to varying degrees. This is the bullshit I am talking about. Mastering bloom is all about timing and deciding when to spam and when to pace, and everywhere in between, so if your bloom reset rate is different game to game, it totally throws off that timing, and really breaks the mechanic.

Whoa, I've never noticed that. On host, off host, West Coast Host or even European host. Obviously if that's happening that's a major issue.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Whoa, I've never noticed that. On host, off host, West Coast Host or even European host. Obviously if that's happening that's a major issue.

Bah see this arguement would be moot if everyone would just use the best weapon in all of halo.

Spoiler

The Assault Rifle

;p

 

[Booshka]

Whoa, I've never noticed that. On host, off host, West Coast Host or even European host. Obviously if that's happening that's a major issue.

I'll be honest and say I have a pretty shitty connection, my speeds are very low, but my connection is pretty consistent, I don't have a super high ping, and little to no packet loss, but bloom online is definitely an issue. I have also noticed it on Pro Halo streams on JTV/TTV, you can see the bloom reset slower on worse connections, and iGoturPistola famously complains about it online (and has a shitty connection) whereas he is amazingly consistent on LAN.

Since you have such a good connection Tashi, I assume this problem pretty much does not exist for you, or is not severe enough to notice. Not blaming you for having good speeds, just blaming Reach for having this problem.

I've played over a 1000 hours of Shadowrun, a game with a severe bloom mechanic and have never noticed a difference in the bloom reset depending on the connection.

 

[Tawpgun]

yeah not because Cod did it.

Halo pretty much introduced me pretty much to FPS gaming. After this event i got into BF2/2142 for a few years and while gaming on the PC i realised i wished how Halo would have something like bloom and bigger battles like PC gaming. I don't want to argue with anybody but it's honestly how i feel.

Bloom makes you pace your shots and makes you think about the situation. 2142 made this very apparent to me and gave you a massive skill advantage when used in the right situation.

(Krylov FTW)

Dude you can't really compare it to any type of "realistic" shooters. Where precision doesn't matter as much as sqeezing off those 3-5 full auto bullets into someone before they do it to you.

Halo has ALLLLLLWWAAAAAYYYYS been about precision gameplay. I would say similar to Quake but that's not true because in Quake you generally don't aim for the head, just aim for their fast as fuck bodies.

Halo is one of the only shooters where headshots make all the difference. And with mechanics like bloom, it makes everything inconsistent. I'lll give my reasoning later in this post.

So is it fair to say that because you mostly play shit gametypes that it has skewed your perception of bloom?

I play standard reach matchmaking in various playlists, not just one Nah, but I'll give my reasoning behind bloom is bad. Maybe you can explain what makes it so skilfull and good.

HaloGAF has been complaining about the effects of lag and host for years. Complaining about bloom on the DMR is akin to complaining about the BR, melee, and sweep sniping of yore.

You said bloom = skill before right? Alright, let me try and explain the anti-bloom point of view.

I'm a pretty good Halo player. Better than the vast majority of the Reach player base. I tend to pace more than I spam. and I win DMR battles more often than lose. Anti-Bloom users complain about not being able to land a final killing blow because of bloom. People say to Pace. It's more complicated than that.

At a far enough range, a pacer will ALWAYS win.
At a close enough range, a spammer will ALWAYS win.

But it's not that black and white. There's this sketchy gray area in the mid range where if you simulate spammer vs pacer fights it could go either way. And even if its skewed more to one side than to the other, it turns into a probability match. And that's terrible design.

If it happens only once per match (and it happens MUTLIPLE times per match...) its bad enough. The fact that I can have better aim, dexterity, pacing, and someone can win by getting a lucky spam is a terrible design choice.

The other problem is at the DMR's optimal pacing it fairs painstakingly slow. Spammers will be able to strip shields like crazy. What this does is nerf the individual. In the previous Halo's I felt I could take on 2 mediocre players at the same time given perfect aim by me. I can't do that in reach. One firefight will leave you too crippled to continue fighting until you wait for that long ass recharge time. This has a lot to do with the movement speed and sluggishness (inertia) of the spartans, but bloom is a contributing factor as well. Only time I've survived 2 on 1's is by getting lucky spams off.

In summary, DMR battles have a gray mid range area where the line between spamming and pacing is blurred, leading to frustrating and inconsistent experiences. And bloom cause the individual to be gimped in any battle.

 

[senador]

Halo has ALLLLLLWWAAAAAYYYYS been about precision gameplay

That depends who you talk to doesn't it? I prefer precision play and I agree that better players do too and recognize the importance of precision play, but I'd guess the vast majority of players love their spray-n-pray. So for them, Halo is about automatic weapons, and that's what's iconic to them.

Halo 4 should open with "AR or BR?" and depending what you choose you are forever segregated from the others. LOL

 

[Tashi]

I'll be honest and say I have a pretty shitty connection, my speeds are very low, but my connection is pretty consistent, I don't have a super high ping, and little to no packet loss, but bloom online is definitely an issue. I have also noticed it on Pro Halo streams on JTV/TTV, you can see the bloom reset slower on worse connections, and iGoturPistola famously complains about it online (and has a shitty connection) whereas he is amazingly consistent on LAN.

Since you have such a good connection Tashi, I assume this problem pretty much does not exist for you, or is not severe enough to notice. Not blaming you for having good speeds, just blaming Reach for having this problem.

I've played over a 1000 hours of Shadowrun, a game with a severe bloom mechanic and have never noticed a difference in the bloom reset depending on the connection.

That's fair to say about my connection but I've seen some streams as well and haven't noticed it there either. This is actually the first time I'm hearing this about bloom.

 

[The Librarian]

Really looking forward to the Halo Universe Fiction panel.

 

[Homeboyd]

Two things I'd like to hear about before the weekend ends:

Some talk about Forge on the new maps (will it be like Tempest or will we just have a few objects to move around here and there?) and how will community content be handled for matchmaking? Will CC continue to exist (finally confirm yes or no) and if so where will we operate? Guessing Bungie.net won't be that home anymore.

 

[Raide]

One thing I'd like to hear about before the weekend ends:

Some talk about Forge on the new maps (will it be like Tempest or will we just have a few objects to move around here and there) and how will community content be handled for matchmaking. Will CC continue to exist (finally confirm yes or no) and if so where will we operate? Guessing Bungie.net won't be that home anymore.

Knowing where Forge is heading is pretty crucial for me. 90% of my playtime in Reach was in Forge. I am hoping they at least give people some new places to play with but I would also love some new bits to play with.

I get the feeling nothing will be said and they will just hype up the next Forge iteration for Halo 4.

 

[Merguson]

For me and a lot of people on my friends list that I have talked to, they notice a discrepancy with the bloom reset rate on different connections. So if you are host, you will have the intended Bloom reset rate, whereas off host and depending on your connection to the host, your bloom reset rate will be worse to varying degrees. This is the bullshit I am talking about. Mastering bloom is all about timing and deciding when to spam and when to pace, and everywhere in between, so if your bloom reset rate is different game to game, it totally throws off that timing, and really breaks the mechanic.

Is there any videos or something that shows the differences?

 

[feel]

Jen Taylor........... <3

I could listen to her talk all day. All day.

 

[Future PhaZe]

hoping for lighting and texture options for Halo 4 Forge.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Jen Taylor........... <3

I could listen to her talk all day. All day.

She's mine, back off.

 

[Raide]

hoping for lighting and texture options for Halo 4 Forge.

Options for weather effects as well. Oh, and more than 8 Mancannons so I can finish Q3DM17.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

She's mine, back off.

No She's mine. I called her first damn it!!!

lol

*Edit* OMG. There are Cortana Avatar props?!?!?!?! OMG.

 

[feel]

Holy shit at that Real Men of Halo ending haha

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

No She's mine. I called her first damn it!!!

lol

She comes across as such a sweet down to earth person as well <3 Jen

So how are we all gonna sort this out?

choose your weapon.......

 

[clav]

Jen Taylor........... <3

I could listen to her talk all day. All day.

I think it's more than that.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Holy shit at that Real Men of Halo ending haha

Best Panel yet, am I right?

Confused it was called the Halo Universe Panel, did Marty high-jack it I wonder? (With that line up, who could blame/stop him?)

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I think it's more than that.

I don't. Sure she's good looking but that voice is just something.

Best Panel yet, am I right?

Confused it was called the Halo Universe Panel, did Marty high-jack it I wonder? (With that line up, who could blame/stop him?)

No. I've noticed the names for the panels haven't been super accurate. Example the future of Halo Waypoint should have been called Stats Stats Stats.

 

[kittens]

Jen Taylor........... <3

I could listen to her talk all day. All day.

Haha, seriously. Her and her voice are both beautiful.

I kinda hope Dax's theory is right, and that Cortana becomes a villain in the new trilogy. I'd love to hear Jen voice an evil Cortana.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Haha, seriously. Her and her voice are both beautiful.

I kinda hope Dax's theory is right, and that Cortana becomes a villain in the new trilogy. I'd love to hear Jen voice an evil Cortana.

I'm torn. We've seen the evil AI stuff before with Marathon. So yes I think her evil Cortana would be awesome, at the same time I don't want to see her become evil and instead they go a different route and maybe have her start too but then be redeemed and find a way to become stable.

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxxiqb66gTc

Need background music and visuals stat.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Example the future of Halo Waypoint should have been called Stats Stats Stats.

I'd disagree with that. They talked all about the redesigns of the App, the website, the next stage of HW forums etc. Seemed like a good title to me.

Spoiler

The Panels (it and the Community panel) were kind of boring, to be honest. *shrug*Even the Anniversary one could have been a lot better.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I'd disagree with that. They talked all about the redesigns of the App, the website, the next stage of HW forums etc. Seemed like a good title to me.

Spoiler

The Panels (it and the Community panel) were kind of boring, to be honest. *shrug*Even the Anniversary one could have been a lot better.

They did at first but then midway it became about stats. Then the questions in the audience were all stats questions minus like 1. Really it came off as not being as well thought out as the other panels. They really didn't seem to have an outline like other panels have.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Is there any way to get a Grunt plush without being at PAX?

 

[Tashi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxxiqb66gTc

Need background music and visuals stat.

WOW. Amazing, "Mr Terrible Warthog driverrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!" lolol

 

[The Librarian]

Haha, seriously. Her and her voice are both beautiful.

I kinda hope Dax's theory is right, and that Cortana becomes a villain in the new trilogy. I'd love to hear Jen voice an evil Cortana.

I think finding a "cure" for her rampancy before she becomes evil would be a huge, uh – what's the phrase? – cop out. And if they avoid the threat of rampancy, that would be another huge cop out.

Ideally, I would have Cortana's rampancy story go like this:

Halo 4, becomes increasingly unstable then becomes a threat at the end -> Halo 5, main antagonist, tries to kill you and whatnot until you find some way to save her in the end -> Halo 6, you and her try to clean up whatever messes she made when she was rampant.

Or it would be: Halo 4, becomes increasingly unstable then becomes a threat at the end -> Halo 5 and 6 main antagonist and you save her at the end (or she dies...interesting thought).

Whatever works best for other stories 343 has planned.

I'm torn. We've seen the evil AI stuff before with Marathon. So yes I think her evil Cortana would be awesome, at the same time I don't want to see her become evil and instead they go a different route and maybe have her start too but then be redeemed and find a way to become stable.

We've seen the evil AI before, a lot of the time, in videogames. But with Cortana I think it would be different because how fleshed out she is as a character and her relationship with the player over the three main games.