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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war

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efyu_lemonardo

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Perhaps it is time to start implementing alternatives to IDF fully controlling Gaza, or at least bringing in other organizations to take responsibility for some of the control.

UNRWA has proven itself a failure and so have other international organizations like the red cross, but perhaps there are others who can be appealed to who would not be seen as extensions of the Israeli government and would not be associated with a Jewish identity.

This cycle of global antisemitism is nothing but fuel on an already precarious fire. More than that, it's exactly the result Hamas and Iran were hoping for when they planned this operation. It keeps us in Israel focused on our anger and feelings of persecution and national rage, and leaves us less focused on conducting this campaign rationally and effectively, which is essential in combat against terrorism and among civilians.

Every one of our fuck-up is magnified, causing us to look worse and worse on the global stage, which leads to more global antisemitism, and so on. Even when some fuck-ups are later proven to be mostly propaganda, the time it takes for this information to be sorted out is long enough that new fuck-ups happen by then. War is chaos by definition, and on a long enough time scale nobody ends up looking good. We like to think of the allies in WW2 as clean of any misconduct, but think about the generations of Hollywood movies and the countless video games the west has pushed on us from then until today. Why were they even necessary if the situation was as clearly black and white back then as it is seen today?

The plan was never for IDF to control Gaza indefinitely, and I'm not saying we should withdraw completely, but we have to enter a new phase in this war. Our military is also beginning to exhaust its personelle and this can only lead to more fuck-ups, which are unfortunately what most of the world considers to be the most important indication of how this war is going.

Israel needs to be in a position where it can continue to operate towards its stated goals while relieving itself of some of the accountability for future fuck-ups in Gaza that will cost civilian lives.
 
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ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
efyu_lemonardo said:
Perhaps it is time to start implementing alternatives to IDF fully controlling Gaza, or at least bringing in other organizations to take responsibility for some of the control.

UNRWA has proven itself a failure and so have other international organizations like the red cross, but perhaps there are others who can be appealed to who would not be seen as extensions of the Israeli government and would not be associated with a Jewish identity.

This cycle of global antisemitism is nothing but fuel on an already precarious fire. More than that, it's exactly the result Hamas and Iran were hoping for when they planned this operation. It keeps us in Israel focused on our anger and feelings of persecution and national rage, and leaves us less focused on conducting this campaign rationally and effectively, which is essential in combat against terrorism and among civilians.

Every one of our fuck-up is magnified, causing us to look worse and worse on the global stage, which leads to more global antisemitism, and so on. Even when some fuck-ups are later proven to be mostly propaganda, the time it takes for this information to be sorted out is long enough that new fuck-ups happen by then. War is chaos by definition, and on a long enough time scale nobody ends up looking good. We like to think of the allies in WW2 as clean of any misconduct, but think about the generations of Hollywood movies and the countless video games the west has pushed on us from then until today. Why were they even necessary if the situation was as clearly black and white back then as it is seen today?

The plan was never for IDF to control Gaza indefinitely, and I'm not saying we should withdraw completely, but we have to enter a new phase in this war. Our military is also beginning to exhaust its personelle and this can only lead to more fuck-ups, which are unfortunately what most of the world considers to be the most important indication of how this war is going.

Israel needs to be in a position where it can continue to operate towards its stated goals while relieving itself of some of the accountability for future fuck-ups in Gaza that will cost civilian lives.
Click to expand...
The war didn't cause more people to be antisemites, it caused more of them to be bold in letting you know. Israel wasn't there when pogroms happened or the Holocaust, and the countless of deportations, class b, etc, for Jews. Some folks just have a hard time coping with Jews surviving all of this shit and not whining about it.

As for Gaza. The US should pay Egypt whatever it can and they can and should control it. They don't want to, no one fucking does.
 
Kilau

Kilau

Member
Noticed the shutitdown4palestine tag trending. The stuff posted linking all consumer money directly to Jews is slicker than goebbels could have ever imagined but absolutely from the same play book. hitler is clapping from hell and the idiots in the west that should damn well know better eat it up, sickening.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
ADiTAR said:
The war didn't cause more people to be antisemites, it caused more of them to be bold in letting you know.
Click to expand...
Why does this distinction matter?
I'm not concerned with what other people think, only with how they're affecting us. And right now they are affecting us in a manner that makes us - and Israel - more vulnerable. And this benefits our enemies too. Have you heard what Egyptian analysts have said about us recently?

www.memri.org

Egyptian Military Analyst General (Ret.) Samir Farag: Despite the Peace Accords, Israel Is Still Egypt’s Main Enemy

Egyptian military analyst General (ret.) Samir Farag said on a February 18, 2024 show on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) that...
www.memri.org www.memri.org

Remember the saying: it is more important to be smart than to be right. Biden will not lose an election to protect us, no matter how uninformed (or antisemitic) his voters are.

Israel is running the risk of coming out of this campaign in a weaker position relative to the rest of the middle east than when we entered it. That should concern us all.
 
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ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
efyu_lemonardo said:
Why does this distinction matter?
I'm not concerned with what other people think, only with how they're affecting us. And right now they are affecting us in a manner that makes us - and Israel - more vulnerable. And this benefits our enemies too. Have you heard what Egyptian analysts have said about us recently?
Click to expand...
It matters because this war didn't make them antisemites. Those who support us didn't just switch and according to every survey , while online antisemitic bot farms would make you think otherwise, it's clear 10/7 actually brought more people into our fold. That's why they are still protesting, because they know their veiled "free palestine" genocidal call was exposed that day and now they are trying their best to change it back. They can't, the silent majority has seen that Hamas is ISIS and they support us wiping them out at any cost.

efyu_lemonardo said:
www.memri.org

Egyptian Military Analyst General (Ret.) Samir Farag: Despite the Peace Accords, Israel Is Still Egypt’s Main Enemy

Egyptian military analyst General (ret.) Samir Farag said on a February 18, 2024 show on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) that...
www.memri.org www.memri.org
Click to expand...
Kabuki theater. Same with Jordan. They want to showcase they are on the Arab side, but really, they want Israel to win.

efyu_lemonardo said:
Remember the saying: it is more important to be smart than to be right. Biden will not lose an election to protect us, no matter how uninformed (or antisemitic) his voters are.

Israel is running the risk of coming out of this campaign in a weaker position relative to the rest of the middle east than when we entered it. That should concern us all.
Click to expand...
Nah, Biden will lose the elections if he doesn't support Israel even stronger. Latest survey which I think i posted has 4 out of 5 support Israel. The "protest" vote in Michigan was a nothing burger.

Also Biden's election chances have nothing to do with Israel. Americans' top issue is immigration, foreign policy is second to last: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1362236/most-important-voter-issues-us/

Online is not real life, and Arab leaders need to say thing in order to shut others out. Ramadan will be telling, but everyone knows Hamas is to blame for all this mess and it's time for it to be gone.
 
A

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Herbspiceguy said:
Interesting article on the impact of banning all Palestinian workers from building projects in Israel (it's a Dutch news site, so use your preferred page translator):
nos.nl

Palestijnen mogen sinds oorlog niet meer in Israël werken, impact economie groot

De helft van alle bouwprojecten in Israël ligt stil omdat Palestijnse arbeiders daar niet meer mogen werken. De economie krijgt klappen, ook aan Palestijnse kant zijn er grote gevolgen.
nos.nl nos.nl
Click to expand...
There are many places in the world Israel can import workers from. India/China for example.

No need to bring in people who you can't trust.
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
ADiTAR said:
There are many places in the world Israel can import workers from. India/China for example.

No need to bring in people who you can't trust.
Click to expand...
Oh, oh, maybe all those Phillipino workers can escape indentured servitude in Saudi Arabia, cross the deseet, part the waters, and end up in the promised lands of Isreal.

Nah, no one would believe a story like that :p
 
Chittagong

Chittagong

Gold Member
ChuckeRearmed

ChuckeRearmed

Member
ADiTAR said:
Israel is starting it's own productions lines of weapons, as it's becoming clear US is not the ally it once was, and it'll only get worse.

Click to expand...

It makes sense - we see the trends to that worldwide - where the responsibility for protection is gradually shifting towards the regional blocks. There will be some transitional period, but overall the regional blocks will have responsibility for their own security. Would not be surprised if something like this will happen with South Asia sooner or later. Same in Europe.
 
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ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
ChuckeRearmed said:
It makes sense - we see the trends to that worldwide - where the responsibility for protection is gradually shifting towards the regional blocks. There will be some transitional period, but overall the regional blocks will have responsibility for their own security. Would not be surprised if something like this will happen with South Asia sooner or later. Same in Europe.
Click to expand...
It's a shame really because that's what has held this world together, US being the world police in a way. I'm not sure the future is bright without it.
 
ChuckeRearmed

ChuckeRearmed

Member
ADiTAR said:
It's a shame really because that's what has held this world together, US being the world police in a way. I'm not sure the future is bright without it.
Click to expand...
The world is too complex and too big for USA to handle it alone. Not to mention there is just too much media attention to USA or any coalition that is doing something - Iran can bomb somebody and nobody can do much, but let USA do something and we have protests, riots, angry crowds and so on. International structures are not reliable anymore either. Then we have a bunch of conflicts that cannot be resolved easily.

Like Houthi's for example - it is pretty obvious that bombings won't work and won't be surprised if Internet infrastructure (regional) will be damaged by them. But what can USA do? Obviously not a ground invasion, because there won't be public support over another Vietnam or something. So the only way to handle them is to allow regional blocks to handle that - as nobody cares if Saudi's are doing something in Yemen or not. The drones are cheap to produce in comparison to missile.

Same with Africa. Same with Iran. Ideally, USA should just maintain their military and sell the arms. All while we are transitioning to more drone, AI warfare.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
www.memri.org

In Social Media Video, Gazan Man Throws American Aid Packet In Trash: I Don't Want Aid From A Country That Is An Accomplice To Our Starvation And Genocide

In a video posted on March 4, 2024 on Fouad – Palestine Gaza @Fouad_Diab80 on X (formerly Twitter) "Ibrahim from Gaza" c...
www.memri.org www.memri.org

Here is something I'd never thought I'd see: a Palestinian literally refusing to accept American food that was parachuted into Gaza by the U.S. after last week's incident. He actually throws it away!
You know what children who refuse to eat are told, right? Guess they aren't that hungry after all...
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
efyu_lemonardo said:
www.memri.org

In Social Media Video, Gazan Man Throws American Aid Packet In Trash: I Don't Want Aid From A Country That Is An Accomplice To Our Starvation And Genocide

In a video posted on March 4, 2024 on Fouad – Palestine Gaza @Fouad_Diab80 on X (formerly Twitter) "Ibrahim from Gaza" c...
www.memri.org www.memri.org

Here is something I'd never thought I'd see: a Palestinian literally refusing to accept American food that was parachuted into Gaza by the U.S. after last week's incident. He actually throws it away!
You know what children who refuse to eat are told, right? Guess they aren't that hungry after all...
Click to expand...
I hope we have a bunch of those atrocious "omelet with ham" mres to send his way...he'll get hungry enough eventually!
 
Romulus

Romulus

Member
I'm supportive of Israel and Palestine civilians that are innocent, but I'm confused what the plan is as this goes on.
 
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O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
ADiTAR said:
Either Hamas surrenders and gives back all the hostages, or Hamas is wiped out.
Click to expand...
Yeah - they really have given Israel no other choice. I'm for a controlled, temporary ceasefire for some hostages and aid to the non-Hamas Palestinians (not sure how that would be controlled) but I can't see a scenario where Israel doesn't go back all-in with regard to wiping out Hamas short a complete surrender. At the end of the day, Hamas will be destroyed.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

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ADiTAR said:
Either Hamas surrenders and gives back all the hostages, or Hamas is wiped out.
Click to expand...
Following that, UNRWA should be dissolved and replaced by a real refugee assistance agency, one who will enact policies that are actually constructive and forward thinking instead of the hateful propaganda we've had in Gaza.

Also, I've read that effectively there are five major families that have a significant enough social standing in Gaza to administer it for the short term future, following the war. Hopefully they can come to some agreement between them and form a governing body within the next few years. One that is much less corrupt.
 
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winjer

winjer

Gold Member
efyu_lemonardo said:
Following that, UNRWA should be dissolved and replaced by a real refugee assistance agency, one who will enact policies that are actually constructive and forward thinking instead of the hateful propaganda we've had in Gaza.

Also, I've read that effectively there are five major families that have a significant enough social standing in Gaza to administer it for the short term future, following the war. Hopefully they can come to some agreement between them and form a governing body within the next few years. One that is much less corrupt.
Click to expand...

Gaza needs a something similar top the denazification process that happened in Germany.
A way to clean up all the indoctrination and hate that Hamas and similar terrorist groups, have spread.
And we need an organization that isn't so incompetent and detached from reality as the UN.
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
winjer said:
Gaza needs a something similar top the denazification process that happened in Germany.
A way to clean up all the indoctrination and hate that Hamas and similar terrorist groups, have spread.
And we need an organization that isn't so incompetent and detached from reality as the UN.
Click to expand...
That would imply the Gazan people want to change.

Alas, I don't think that is the case. So it's either DECADES of "reprogramming" to alter their mindset away from the anti-Jew radical islam they have been gulping down for over half a century or you have to fragment them into tiny groups and disseminate them across a bunch of (slightly more) tolerant Muslims and essentially eradicate their culture of hate from the Earth. But I think most muslim communities are only fractionally less intolerant than Gazans so they would probably end up increasing tensions across the muslim world rather than being subsumed into it. Definitely can't keep them together in large groups because they will just export their radical philosophy. You almost need to just establish a reservation in the middle of Kazakhstan or someplace and displace them all there where they can't hurt anyone else until they just wither away.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
winjer said:
Gaza needs a something similar top the denazification process that happened in Germany.
A way to clean up all the indoctrination and hate that Hamas and similar terrorist groups, have spread.
And we need an organization that isn't so incompetent and detached from reality as the UN.
Click to expand...
First they need to decide they care about themselves more than they hate others. That's not something anyone can teach them but their own. Even the Nazis valued their own lives. Any motivation to change has to start from there. Which is why I believe finding this motivation is a job best left for local leadership.
 
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newtypepilot

newtypepilot

Member


Houthis attacked another ship in the gulf of aden. 3 mariners on board have died. The frustrating thing is that the ship had heeded the houthis's warning to turn around (even though they have no right to make such demands). It was sailing away when it was struck.

Let's keep attacking merchant ships that have nothing to do with the conflict. Real smart.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

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ADiTAR said:
Horrid and stupid. If Gaza had no humanitarian aid in the first place, the war would have been over by now. They are not feeding Gaza they are feeding Hamas and US troops will die.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it's a way to get certain Gazans out of there more than it is a way to get aid in.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
newtypepilot said:


Houthis attacked another ship in the gulf of aden. 3 mariners on board have died. The frustrating thing is that the ship had heeded the houthis's warning to turn around (even though they have no right to make such demands). It was sailing away when it was struck.

Let's keep attacking merchant ships that have nothing to do with the conflict. Real smart.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile the famine in Yemen is on an entirely different level and scale, but let's keep focusing on Gazans even though a quick Google image search (of "famine in Gaza" vs "famine in Yemen") is all you need to see the stark difference between the two.
 
A

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Report from Gaza saying the parachuted aid from US has hit a building in Gaza and killed 5 ppl and wounded others.

www.ynet.co.il

דיווחים בעזה: 5 הרוגים מפגיעת חבילות סיוע שהוצנחו ברצועה | התיעוד הדרמטי

פרט להרוגים, עוד כמה בני אדם נפצעו מפגיעת חבילות הסיוע של ארה"ב ומצרים - לאחר שהמצנחים לא נפתחו. הלילה הודיע ביידן על רציף מול חופי עזה שישמש להעברת סיוע ימי מקפריסין, משרד החוץ: "היוזמה הקפריסאית תאפשר את הגברת הסיוע ההומניטרי לעזה, לאחר בידוק ביטחוני בסטנדרטים ישראלים"
www.ynet.co.il www.ynet.co.il
 
Nonehxc

Nonehxc

Member
ADiTAR said:
Report from Gaza saying the parachuted aid from US has hit a building in Gaza and killed 5 ppl and wounded others.

www.ynet.co.il

דיווחים בעזה: 5 הרוגים מפגיעת חבילות סיוע שהוצנחו ברצועה | התיעוד הדרמטי

פרט להרוגים, עוד כמה בני אדם נפצעו מפגיעת חבילות הסיוע של ארה"ב ומצרים - לאחר שהמצנחים לא נפתחו. הלילה הודיע ביידן על רציף מול חופי עזה שישמש להעברת סיוע ימי מקפריסין, משרד החוץ: "היוזמה הקפריסאית תאפשר את הגברת הסיוע ההומניטרי לעזה, לאחר בידוק ביטחוני בסטנדרטים ישראלים"
www.ynet.co.il www.ynet.co.il
Click to expand...
Those Precission Guided MREs sure are tasty to die for. 😐
 
IDKFA

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
ADiTAR said:
He was responsible for the declaration that enabled Jews returning to their homeland.

Click to expand...


This sends a message. The message being that this group calling themselves Palestine Action are anti-semitic and do not recognise Israel as a state.

I'm ashamed at my country that we allow such a group to exist. They should be labeled as a hate group and outlawed.
 
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