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Hands-On with PlayStation 3
- Thread starter KyotoMecca
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WTF at this thread! :lol :lol E3 is going to be awesome.
I don't know if the article is true or not, but it's actually what i'm expecting. The people expecting a huge gap ala Xbox and PS2 are going to be dissappointed. Towards the very end of their respective lives you may start to see a difference. I thought it was interesting that the article pointed out what a few have been saying, the difference being in physics and the amount of effects at once and that's actually where i'm hoping the real next gen comes from. And the point that 360 can do basically the same things PS3 can, just maybe not as many at once. Again though this is early development in both systems cycles and things change, for the better, as time goes on.
Reading on, blah blah, with time PS3 will reach visuals of Killzone demo and come closer to MGS4 for now, yea expected and despite the repeated bringing up of EE and early demos PS2 reached those levels eventually too, no big surprises there. Launch software will look as good as coming up 2nd gen 360 software, again no big fucking surprise there. Seriously, to those with grounded feet none of this article should be a big surprise.
I don't know if the article is true or not, but it's actually what i'm expecting. The people expecting a huge gap ala Xbox and PS2 are going to be dissappointed. Towards the very end of their respective lives you may start to see a difference. I thought it was interesting that the article pointed out what a few have been saying, the difference being in physics and the amount of effects at once and that's actually where i'm hoping the real next gen comes from. And the point that 360 can do basically the same things PS3 can, just maybe not as many at once. Again though this is early development in both systems cycles and things change, for the better, as time goes on.
Reading on, blah blah, with time PS3 will reach visuals of Killzone demo and come closer to MGS4 for now, yea expected and despite the repeated bringing up of EE and early demos PS2 reached those levels eventually too, no big surprises there. Launch software will look as good as coming up 2nd gen 360 software, again no big fucking surprise there. Seriously, to those with grounded feet none of this article should be a big surprise.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Of course, because some fans want it to DESTROY MS AND NINTENDO WITH THE TOUCH OF A CELL®-POWERED BUTTON!1Musashi Wins! said:
Mefisutoferesu
Member
First off, this thread is crazy. I nwvwe thought for once in all my life would I see Drinky make a seemingly well thought out intelligent post. Madness!! Madness, I say!! That said, though, this article seems like a joke to some extent a number have been arguing over what stage the eval. kit is. Blah, bad sentence... Anyway, it's a 1st stage evaluation kit. The devloper made note that he had no access to a BRD and the author's tower comment lead me to this.
The reference kit is the only one with a BRD, check the diagrams yourself.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0722/kaigai199.htm
The reference kit is the only one with a BRD, check the diagrams yourself.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0722/kaigai199.htm
Ninja Scooter
Member
WHY DOES DRINKY USE WORDS I DONT UNDERSTAND?
sol_bad
Member
Is it just me?
Should I re-read that Kikizo article again?
Or was it noted that the dev kit Kikizo saw the games running on have no Blu Ray drive?
Wouldn't it be a huge clue that it's an old dev kit as the full reference kit has a Blu Ray drive.
Quite a few things make this article feel all hog wash like.
Should I re-read that Kikizo article again?
Or was it noted that the dev kit Kikizo saw the games running on have no Blu Ray drive?
Wouldn't it be a huge clue that it's an old dev kit as the full reference kit has a Blu Ray drive.
Quite a few things make this article feel all hog wash like.
Has anyone caught on to the fact that PS3 launch titles will be at the least equivalent to the best the 360 currently has to offer? After the shit we saw at the 360 launch that is a telling statistic. Launch titles that are on par with GRAW and such, possibly better. I'll be in heaven.
Okay, for the English major here, it's certainly been strongly indicated by all sources that will be the case. Just more evidence what utter trash the 360 launch had IF the machines are as close as some would believe. Biggest tidbit is that the PS3 has HUGE support in developers groups with the majority of resources dedicated to it. That will be the biggest difference.
Mefisutoferesu said:
The refernece kit specifically states BR/DVD/CD Drive HDD...Are we to assume that it is a multi drive or that it could be using various drives? I'm sure all that Japanese writings surrounding the picture says something important, but I don't know what it says. Also, assuming I understand this right, doesn't the refernece kit slide into another structure? Hell it even has rackmount holes on its sides!
Mefisutoferesu
Member
3rdman said:
Look at the diagram, as I said only the reference kit has a BRD, and yes BRDs support DVD/CD and whatever else.
Mefisutoferesu said:
Look at the diagram, as I said only the reference kit has a BRD, and yes BRDs support DVD/CD and whatever else.
I see/don't see the diagram. My point is that when you use slashes there is reason/no reason to suggest that it may be a case of either/or and not specifically one. It may mean that BR is in all the reference kits or it could mean that it is interchangeable.
But I understand/misunderstand your point. Yes?/No?
Edit:But wait a minute...that diagram at the top specifically states Playstation 3...not PS3 reference kit, the second diagram is the evaluation system.
trmas said:
The thing is, it takes more than powerful hardware to make games that look like GRAW, it takes time. The lack of time with final hardware is what caused a lot of 360s launch titles to fall short of their visual targets. It seems like sony have the same problem getting hardware to developers on time.
No doubt the PS3 can do everything the 360 can do but the assumption that it will automatically be able to do it all with its launch titles is a big leap of faith imo.
Mefisutoferesu
Member
Look, I don't know if you're just an acting up fanboy or just genuinely confused, but you need to take a moment to just look at the diagram. I apologize, if you're honestly confused, but I dunno how much more obvious I can be beyond the diagram. Again, I apologize, if so.
Actually...
Here's a translation:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22009&highlight=reference+development
And here's the PDF of the Diagram:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0722/kaigai02.pdf
Actually...
Here's a translation:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22009&highlight=reference+development
And here's the PDF of the Diagram:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0722/kaigai02.pdf
Wow, the most unsurprising article I ever read.
1080p causing framerate problems...really?
PS3 not a generation ahead of 360...who would have expected that?
No Killzone trailer level graphics yet from a developer still pretty early in development, I am shocked!
PS3 launch not in early spring, but more like early summer...never saw that one coming.
Really great looking games will need talented programmers and artists and a huge budget? Thats really something completely new!
1080p causing framerate problems...really?
PS3 not a generation ahead of 360...who would have expected that?
No Killzone trailer level graphics yet from a developer still pretty early in development, I am shocked!
PS3 launch not in early spring, but more like early summer...never saw that one coming.
Really great looking games will need talented programmers and artists and a huge budget? Thats really something completely new!
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
3rdman said:
Well, reference being the operative word in Reference Tool (as in the reference for the actual console), BRD is obviously a big part of that spec. And part of BRD's spec is also DVD/CD support. Not much of a stretch here.
There was also a couple other quirky things in that article. Like the guy mentioning lower resolutions would "save us CPU cycles". Arent the amount of pixels a GPU bound, not a CPU bound? And doing AA in software?
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
Thats also another wtf moment. The builds are clearly not that far along if their still doing AA in software or they don't have the right setup to get certian things going. If you look closely theres alot of little things in the article that point to the build of these games being older or using older kits.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
You noticed that too?
Mefisutoferesu said:
LOL, at 36 years of age there is nothing "boyish" about me...but no offense taken. I am confused.
The translation clearly states that the refence tool would include the BR drive so thats that...Thanks for the links and I'll give them a good look over. Still odd that they would mention the RSX explicitly...if the devs claimed to be using it in their dev kits, then it would be the first dev kit with an RSX an no BR Drive, right? ...or am I still confused? 
mashoutposse
Ante Up
I doubt Kikizo had access to the work of the elite studios.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
-kikizo-
Soul Calibur 3, God of War, GT4@60fps@1080i, MGS3, Ghost Hunter, KH2, Black, Jak 3, Champions of Norrath, and many other games all wave hello.
I think what the Xbot meant to say was this:
"Xbox could do normal mapping and a few other shader effects the PS2 hardware couldn't do. However, PS2 still beats the Xbox in terms of framebuffer effects and pixel fillrate."
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
J2 Cool said:
gah...
Kikizo made an article about the PS3 and their hands on experience with the Playstation 3 (as you can tell from the thread title). The article is good in staying level headed and has some good points about certain things but it turns into one big "How does the PS3 compare to the Xbox360".
Now...thats a good way to start off a thread (here at GAF). So basically the thread starts off with a article that can be taken as one big bait. Its fairly calm at first, everyones actually cool but it degenerates into people saying that the PS3 doesn't live up to the hype.
Playstation fans then start to call out inconcistencies in the article and its labled as Damage Control. Drinky makes some well thought out posts that get drowned out. I make some crazy claims about the article...DenogginizerOS owns 1/10th of the posts here asking non answerable questions and you've got us now talking about how the devs Kikizo talked to may have been using old Dev kits or the builds they saw were very early.
Thats about it
Mefisutoferesu
Member
J2 Cool said:
Kikizo uses it's "insidur" connections to basically grasp at straws. Probably, an interview with a SEGA of America Dev, whom Sony apparently isn't giving much love to, which forms the basis of 5 pages with nothing new, well except several pages of GAF slag.
On a side note, sorry, 3rd, meant no offense and I'm glad none was taken.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
J2 Cool said:
2 pages of beating around the bush, then 1 page of Xbot flamebait, then 2 pages where Kikizo makes assumtions based on still-in-developement software created on still-in-developement hardware. (Which still looked a leap beyong final Xbox360 software)
velvet_nitemare
Member
Not much there...i'm more cocerned with the news of sony confirming the PS3 hard-drive...pretty much kills off any hope of $349.99....o and $299.99= :lol
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
3rdman said:
Kikizo's statement NO.
There are no multitude of built-in effects on the Xbox hardware. They all must be coded/called just like with any other console. That statement was just Kikizo not being able to "let it go" and admit the PS2 has more than held it's own against the Xbox.
Hell, the only effect I've seen on Xbox that I haven't seen on PS2 is Normal Mapping, and I'm not so sure I would consider that a next generation effect. I hope Normal Mapping is either used sparringly or done away with completely, as it is nothing more than a way to hide low polygon counts in games.
I haven't seen anyting done on the Xbox that can't be done, to an extent on, PS2 and vice versa. Both consoles are of the same generation, just like the Dreamcast.
Same with this generation, both Xbox360 and PS3 are of the same generation and must be coded to do specific tasks/effects. PS3 will be the polygon monster compared to Xbox360, but that doesn't mean it is a generation ahead.
bumpkin
Member
I don't know any more now than I knew before I read the feature. Hands-On without any actual commentary of real gameplay of any specific game in development. The bottom line? A complete and utter waste of time. That is, unless you like listening to someone else talk, all the while thinking "nyah! nyah!" in their head.
Still, I applaud Doree for trying to recover after being caught with their pants down on the VF5 PS3 issue.
Still, I applaud Doree for trying to recover after being caught with their pants down on the VF5 PS3 issue.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
3rdman said:
Fair enough, but it is a statement that is simply false.
Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox, GC are all of the same generation.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Amir0x said:
Seriously.
I checked the boards, saw the thread title and thought, "Finally, this is it."
30 minutes later, and the only thing that's changed is that I can now explain the difference between a rack and a tower in extreme detail.
Disappointment.
fortified_concept
Banned
What a waste of time. They know shit and they're just assuming like every other person. I could read a thread at GAF and learn more about PS3.
kallisto76
Member
kikizo's impressions are extremely generic.....they focus on things everyone was imagining, so i can't see where are the shocking news everyone expected....i think now people are waiting for some game to show, this will make the difference and only then people could talk about comparison between next-gen hw.....for now, all remains in the fog
Confidence Man
Member
Ahahahahahahah
Implosion imminent!
Implosion imminent!
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Kikizo said:
:/
BlueTsunami said:
They're not unique in doing AA through software. HS is using AA through shaders now, for example. It lets you do more.
Anyway, regarding the article. it was nice to have some commentary on it, with some interesting tidbits here and there. It's encouraging to see some "unique" traits emerge already - physics for example. I'm not sure, though, why they felt the need to attempt to draw judgement and comparison on it, based on pre-launch software - furthermore, just 3 of those titles. Things seemed to go off the rails a bit around page 4, where they left the realm of (mostly) description and information, to attempt to draw a conclusion.
I think they'd have been much better off just giving the information they had and the dev comments etc. without the attempt at a comparative review, based on what may be 10% of PS3's day one line-up. Statements like this "Does PS3 really look like the Killzone trailer? No way." are inappropriate..they should be answering the question "Do the 3 early PS3 titles we saw really look like the Killzone trailer?"
I'm not saying any games ever will, but I wouldn't be as quick to draw the judgement they have based on 3 games months from launch.edit - hopefully Sony will also start showing and telling soon, lest others engage in PR for them, like here..which I doubt is something they want.
robertsan21
Member
this article is not what I imagined it would be.
after reading it I know one thing and thats that kikozo dont know shit!
after reading it I know one thing and thats that kikozo dont know shit!
quetz67 said:
The rest of the statements are pretty good except for the that one. Why not just say "No current PIXAR movie quality graphics YET" or "No live action quality graphics YET from a developer still pretty early in development", because their all just as likely to actually happen on the PS3.
It's just not going to happen, not on the 360 or PS3, and no it's not too early in development to tell.
Any1 said:
Killzone wasn't Pixar or live-action quality..
I'm not saying we will see Killzone-quality graphics, at all, but I do think it's way too early to tell, or even if we'll get as close so it's as good as. I never thought we'd see some of the things we saw this generation, so I'd hesitate to so quickly put a cap on what we'll see out of the coming generation. I think it's also a slightly symbolic statement to make now...not just so much about Killzone specifically, but something that represents everything Sony promised. Most things Sony showed are quite achievable, IMO.
I mentioned killzone because:Any1 said:
1. The article mentioned Killzone
2. Killzone graphics arent close to current PIXAR graphics. The fact that games cant reach the same quality as movies taking month of rendering on rendering farms is obvious.
3. The impressive thing about Killzone isnt the technical achievements. I am sure x360 and PS3 both can pull that off, it is the production value thats impressive and if Killzone is an indication for the PS3 games to come they will look factors better than first gen x360 stuff (technical specs being pretty irrelevant here, the x360 surface isnt even scratched IMHO).
I can't believe anybody would consider that Kikizo article as biased or anti sony.
er.......yes I can. The reason why some people are hating it is because they bought into the Killzone is realtime/ PS3 2X > x360 hype. And they are desperately wishing it to still be true. Reality is pricking the bubble of their illusion.
For the sane among us, whats not to like here?
- Early dev games already being compared to 2nd gen X360 stuff like Gears Of War
- Lots of impressive Geometry large sized environments
- Developers basically admitting they have not begun to tap the power of cell (which means big improvements to come)
er.......yes I can. The reason why some people are hating it is because they bought into the Killzone is realtime/ PS3 2X > x360 hype. And they are desperately wishing it to still be true. Reality is pricking the bubble of their illusion.
For the sane among us, whats not to like here?
- Early dev games already being compared to 2nd gen X360 stuff like Gears Of War
- Lots of impressive Geometry large sized environments
- Developers basically admitting they have not begun to tap the power of cell (which means big improvements to come)
- Status