I feel like I've gotten pretty used to dual wielding now (I no longer go out of sync and hit Safes on trivial strings due to going too fast) but I still mess up whenever something slightly unusual comes into play. This weekend I was trying to perfect some of the easier Hard songs entirely by dual wielding in order to get some practice, but I had to give up on Roshin Yukai (a song I would otherwise have no problems perfecting without dual wielding) because I kept failing the many instances of single-single-single-double strings in the song, they confused the hell out of me every time. It's extremely frustrating and demoralizing because it feels like I'm re-learning the whole game all over again.
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Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd |OT| I'll Miku-Miku GAF (For Reals)
- Thread starter ZeroAKA
- Start date
Yeah, there's this bandwidth thing in your head when you're learning a new thing that makes you feel kinda stupid and sluggish. You're being overwhelmed, simple as.
That's why I think it's important to let the right song teach you the right thing, and separate the concepts a little. Early on it was hard enough to just switch buttons with the prompts, but it becomes absolute second nature later on - that's when you can layer new concepts on top of it. F 2nd kinda blasts a lot of concepts at you right out the gate, and I think it makes for a worse teacher than F was.
But even individual songs have some of that going on. I've found myself switching to a different song and at least excellenting that, and upon returning to a song I previously couldn't for the life of me figure out, some fundamental thing had changed.
Right now I think my number one problem on the super fast notes is realising how many notes I'm actually supposed to hit. I've two songs left, and Intense Voice has bits where I'm just whaling on the buttons and try to go fast and at a steady pace, but I have no clue how many times I'm supposed to press the buttons. So it's all a bit of a clusterfuck, really.
That's why I think it's important to let the right song teach you the right thing, and separate the concepts a little. Early on it was hard enough to just switch buttons with the prompts, but it becomes absolute second nature later on - that's when you can layer new concepts on top of it. F 2nd kinda blasts a lot of concepts at you right out the gate, and I think it makes for a worse teacher than F was.
But even individual songs have some of that going on. I've found myself switching to a different song and at least excellenting that, and upon returning to a song I previously couldn't for the life of me figure out, some fundamental thing had changed.
Right now I think my number one problem on the super fast notes is realising how many notes I'm actually supposed to hit. I've two songs left, and Intense Voice has bits where I'm just whaling on the buttons and try to go fast and at a steady pace, but I have no clue how many times I'm supposed to press the buttons. So it's all a bit of a clusterfuck, really.
MudoSkills
Volcano High Alumnus (Cum Laude)
I'm just going to hone my right handed skills to nail those fast strings using it alone. Believe.
I tried doing the Extreme Akatsuki Arrival Chance Time once with one hand to see how feasible it was. I think I managed to pull off the first two strings but then just fell apart after, it was too physically tiring compared to dual wielding which feels like no effort in comparison (after a few hours of practice of course). It's pretty clear that there are limits to one handed play, or at least for me.
It gets less tiring to use one hand once you know for certain what buttons you're pressing, and the song is in your muscle memory. It's a lot like learning chords on a guitar, in that you start out with this cramped, white-knuckled claw of a hand, and after enough practice you feel like you're just sorta resting your hand on the strings.
That said, there are songs with sections that feel almost physically impossible to do with one hand. The game doesn't give you enough time to lift your thumb, let alone press down again. No matter how fast you get, you'd be twice as fast using both hands.
That said, there are songs with sections that feel almost physically impossible to do with one hand. The game doesn't give you enough time to lift your thumb, let alone press down again. No matter how fast you get, you'd be twice as fast using both hands.
StarCreator
Member
I'd actually argue there are a few things that should be considered not practical to do one-handed at all, though they're relatively rare. The first technical zone in Rosary Pale on Extreme strikes me as one of those things.
Oh no I was agreeing with you. I phrased it badly. I was just saying that you can get surprisingly far one handed, but I think there's a physical limit somewhere.
Remembrance
Member
LiveArea updated early this week! Not that the songs are out yet.
Also, as it is Kaito's birthday I now have all the birthday events in the first game. I assume I'm the only one who hasn't set the system clock for all these by now.
Also, as it is Kaito's birthday I now have all the birthday events in the first game. I assume I'm the only one who hasn't set the system clock for all these by now.
StarCreator
Member
Much belated update to the second post should be all caught up on DLC now, including all of today's releases.
I can see them also on the Australian Store, so all of Europe should be able to grab them also...
Ugh I just realized that ALL THIS FUCKING TIME I was doing star notes with sticks the wrong way.
I was always doing full back and forth movements (like one needs to do with the touchscreen) but then just discovered that it's a lot safer to just do repeated nudges upwards or downwards, and going dual wield for quick strings.
All this time I've wasted at getting false positives, god fucking dammit. Sometimes I missed the same section multiple times in a row because some random swipes did not register. When I was working on Akatsuki Arrival I sometimes had to restart the song as many as 5 times in a row because I constantly failed the star note based Technical Zone at the very beginning. And during the Score Challenge I probably would have failed at least 75% less than I did.
I was always doing full back and forth movements (like one needs to do with the touchscreen) but then just discovered that it's a lot safer to just do repeated nudges upwards or downwards, and going dual wield for quick strings.
All this time I've wasted at getting false positives, god fucking dammit. Sometimes I missed the same section multiple times in a row because some random swipes did not register. When I was working on Akatsuki Arrival I sometimes had to restart the song as many as 5 times in a row because I constantly failed the star note based Technical Zone at the very beginning. And during the Score Challenge I probably would have failed at least 75% less than I did.
I did that too for a while around normal/hard, but then I turned them back on eventually. When songs get really intense, I reckon it comes back around to being a helpful cue.
Yeah I see how that could come in useful on the harder songs.
Maybe I'll just try turning the volume of them down a bit so its not as loud.
I've been looking forward to Yellow, because I like the song quite a bit. It has that livetune way of growing on you in its irresistibly catchy pleasantness.
And this happens on my first try.
This has got to be the easiest song - on extreme anyway - in the entire game. I have nnnno idea what it's doing so far down the list when you sort by difficulty level. No unlockables for DLC songs, either, so I dunno how I'm gonna justify playing it over practicing on the other songs. I guess I'll accidentally pick it sometimes.
And this happens on my first try.
This has got to be the easiest song - on extreme anyway - in the entire game. I have nnnno idea what it's doing so far down the list when you sort by difficulty level. No unlockables for DLC songs, either, so I dunno how I'm gonna justify playing it over practicing on the other songs. I guess I'll accidentally pick it sometimes.
I've been looking forward to Yellow, because I like the song quite a bit. It has that livetune way of growing on you in its irresistibly catchy pleasantness.
And this happens on my first try.
This has got to be the easiest song - on extreme anyway - in the entire game. I have nnnno idea what it's doing so far down the list when you sort by difficulty level. No unlockables for DLC songs, either, so I dunno how I'm gonna justify playing it over practicing on the other songs. I guess I'll accidentally pick it sometimes.
I got one Safe blaaaaarrrgghhh
But yeah, it's absurbly easy, I'd say it's even easier than Ai Kotoba. Why the HELL is it 7.5 stars??? That's higher than all Hard songs! It doesn't make any goddamn sense!!
Haha yeah, probably not.
I only have perfects on this and Packaged in 2nd, I think... Hmm. I keep jumping between the games right now so it blurs together a bit.
Yeah, completely bewildering. :O
I got so angry when I saw that. I know your pain.
The Star system is alllll screwy with the DLC songs, it seems.
StarCreator
Member
I'd argue that star ratings are likely a measure of clear difficulty and not necessarily peak chart difficulty - I know in other music games ratings are often influenced by actual clear statistics collected by the game. I'd buy a 7.5 for Sekiranun simply because it isn't a chart that would cause players to fail out as easily as some other songs with higher ratings, even if it does have one tricky section. It's an extremely straightforward chart otherwise.
Rolling Girl really pisses me off!!! I feel like I'm having a LOT more trouble than I should usually have with all the rapid button changes. I wish I could clear the second Technical Zone so I can reach an Excellent, but I always fail it around the third note and I have NO idea why, it feels like my brain just shuts off at that point and I lose all my focus for the remainder of the song.
Think I've hit my skill ceiling, with my one handed 'will not learn to dual wield and play extreme properly' play style. But still, getting this felt damn good.
I've attempted to perfect Hard 2D Dream Fever countless times but I've yet to ever succeed the second Technical Zone, or more precisely that fucking ring of circles, I always go off-beat every single goddamn time. Do you by any chance have any advice for it?
Between the awesome trumpets and strings version in this concert ...and now the DLC song, I think Change Me is pretty easily my favourite Meiko song. Which also kkkkinda sells me on Meiko in general. I always "got" Kaito and his songs, but with those two being the hardest to take to for me, I've been waiting for a Meiko song that truly clicks with me.
In gameplay news, I only have 2D Dream Fever left to beat (standard) on Extreme, and it's not coming along without a fight. Nor without my arm coming off. Negaposi Continues was exhausting, too, but at least it was fffairly straightforward. Simply figuring out the logic of some of the prompt sequences in this song takes several replays.
This makes a lot of sense, and is probably the case. I still dunno how they sort things, though. Sort Extreme songs by difficulty, and I think Yellow is further down than a lot of songs that are way harder to simply survive.
In gameplay news, I only have 2D Dream Fever left to beat (standard) on Extreme, and it's not coming along without a fight. Nor without my arm coming off. Negaposi Continues was exhausting, too, but at least it was fffairly straightforward. Simply figuring out the logic of some of the prompt sequences in this song takes several replays.
This makes a lot of sense, and is probably the case. I still dunno how they sort things, though. Sort Extreme songs by difficulty, and I think Yellow is further down than a lot of songs that are way harder to simply survive.
StarCreator
Member
EDIT: Ack, didn't see you were asking about the first game, sorry!
Yeah, it's been on sale twice since November-ish. Once when 2nd came out, and again in the "days of winter" sale, or whatever it was called. Days of.. holiday? That doesn't sound right. Their daily sale thingy over Christmas, anyway.
Ah :O We only have digital versions of the first game here in Europe.
Oh really? I'm jealous
Guess I'll just have to wait on another sale. Or maybe I'll cave and end up paying full price.
I haven't noticed it at the start, but there's a bit later on when it definitely chugs a little during a particular effect, but it's fine once the notes start coming in from the left.
In terms of framerate issues, I can't tell if it's just that the framerate is too low and the star symbols are moving too fast, but I find that Meteor really suffers during the fast star notes part, where I still have difficulty figuring out which notes of the song the stars are meant to represent. It's just a bit of a choppy flurry of notes and I'm reduced to just slapping my sticks around willy nilly.
Yeah in songs where the tempo goes really fast it becomes pretty obvious that 30 fps is detrimental to the gameplay. I bet that the super fast parts of 2D Dream Fever would be significantly easier to follow at 60 fps.
Yeah, although with that many prompts, they map over the notes in the song in a fairly obvious way. I'm the most thrown off when it's not apparent, and I'm "waiting" to press a button.
There are several songs in F 2nd with sections where I don't immediately get what part of the song the prompts are mapped to - usually when they're spaced out on screen and are based on some vague, distant bass line. That's when I feel the most in need of the visual cues lining up properly.
Man I hope so. On both accounts. With Dancing All Night and Sega's recent shift in focus away from arcade/retail stuff, I hope there's still a place for more Diva.
raidergale
Member
I suggest listening to the "The Snow White Princess Is" cover with Meiko V3 Power by Kyaami, the chorus sounds amazing imo. You can also listen to her cover of "Junjou Spectra" with Meiko V3 Power again, or if you want to listen to the V1 version I suggest her cover of "Love Philosophia". These are all covers, but they sound really good. Kyaami is a great Meiko tuner, it's a shame she doesn't use her that much. I'm on mobile so I can't really link stuff, but they're easy to find on YouTube. I'll edit this post with links as soon as I get access to a PC anyway
EDIT: links added
If the next Project Diva game gets a PS4 version I'm pretty sure it'll still be 30 FPS to maintain gameplay parity with the Vita (
) version. It's basically going to be identical to the PS3 version but with slightly better lighting and AA.
Although at this point I'm not even sure we'll get another game, judging from how Sega is downscaling their console efforts, combined with the poor sales of F 2nd (it's the worst selling Project Diva game ever). The way they're extending F 2nd's life with DLC appears to be a hint that they're taking a break from continuing the series.
or 3DS lol
Although at this point I'm not even sure we'll get another game, judging from how Sega is downscaling their console efforts, combined with the poor sales of F 2nd (it's the worst selling Project Diva game ever). The way they're extending F 2nd's life with DLC appears to be a hint that they're taking a break from continuing the series.
I suggest listening to the "The Snow White Princess Is" cover with Meiko V3 Power by Kyaami, the chorus sounds amazing imo. You can also listen to her cover of "Junjou Spectra" with Meiko V3 Power again, or if you want to listen to the V1 version I suggest her cover of "Love Philosophia". These are all covers, but they sound really good. Kyaami is a great Meiko tuner, it's a shame she doesn't use her that much. I'm on mobile so I can't really link stuff, but they're easy to find on YouTube. I'll edit this post with links as soon as I get access to a PC anyway
EDIT: links added
Thanks for the suggestions! It's cool to hear her voice in other things.
By definition they're not quite Meiko songs, though, which is what I've been holding out for.
I got into this whhhooole thing when 2nd came out last year, prompting me to get the first game, which I'd for some reason overlooked before. I was taken aback by how much I genuinely enjoyed all the music in it, and eventually I felt compelled to look into the whole computer voice thing. Wiki lead to vocaloid wiki, and vocaloid wiki lead to YouTube - searching for concert clips.
Those clips completely blew me away. There were performances from all over, but I eventually settled on the Magical Mirai 2013 concert, based mostly on the incredible stage and what I could recognize from the set list. I ordered that on blu-ray, and waiting for it I bought the second game. :>
At a point when I was watching the concert - maybe four or five songs in - I could sorta feel my organs shifting inside my body, and now this was the thing and the games were the fan service.
My second concert blu-ray arrived last week, and DLC songs help enabling me in what has to be my biggest *something fever* since.... I don't even know when. I'm not even sure it's a fever any more. It could just be my situation now.
But yes, to come back around to Meiko and the point. In all this stuff, there's only Change Me that I really really like. There's little hope of ever seeing a song that isn't hers performed by her in these contexts, and I'm woefully unaware of "real" Meiko songs outside of the concerts and games.
raidergale
Member
Well, Mirai has multiple tracks where you can switch the main vocal, so it's not completely impossible, just unlikely (especially if said covers are done by a Western user, even though Kyaami is getting well known in Japan). As for Meiko originals, I was disappointed by F's selection (both Stay With Me and Nostalogic are incredibly high pitched, which is something I don't really like), but I'm happy with F2nd's Kowase Kowase since I think that's really nice. It's completely different from Change Me, so I can see why you might like the latter and not the former though.
The concerts are really cool, even though I must admit that seeing people waving glowsticks at a hologram is quite weird.
I'd like if they varied the songs a bit more though, the ones I've seen featured the same songs other than some little variations. :/
I know this might be a bit OT since it's a Project Diva topic, but I'm still waiting for a decent rhythm game with other non-Crypton Vocaloids. Megpoid the Music# wasn't really that good and to be honest IA/VT looks a bit boring, unless they completely changed the gameplay from what they showed last year. I'm still hoping for a localization though, anything rhythm game + Vocaloid is always nice.
Remembrance
Member
By definition they're not quite Meiko songs, though, which is what I've been holding out for.
A lot of new Meiko songs were released for Meiko's 10th anniversary last November!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NhHsnvhIfQg
Everything here was released by KarenT, meaning it should all be on iTunes. You can probably find more elsewhere if you search for Meiko 10th anniversary songs.
Hispanicguy
Member
So thanks to Amazon's deal, I was able to purchase a PS TV. The first game I bought was this.
I'm just trying to figure out what's the best setting in terms of calibration.
Can't wait to dive into another rhythm game. A nice break from all the RPG's I've been playing.
I'm just trying to figure out what's the best setting in terms of calibration.
Can't wait to dive into another rhythm game. A nice break from all the RPG's I've been playing.
It's gonna be interesting to check out Mirai DX when it hits. It'll be my first Mirai game.
I do enjoy Break it, Break it alright, but Change Me is the first to really make me want more Meiko songs.
And yes - a bajillion times yes - to the awkward high pitched tuning being the most off-putting thing about the Meiko songs in F. I think some of the vocaloids can pull that off better - depending on the style of music - but Meiko has such a strong voice when it's allowed to be deeper that it's pointless to even use her that way. I think the most egregious use of high pitched tuning that I've heard is Miku's Last Night, Good Night, however. I think that's a *wonderful* song, but by the end of it your ears are ringing from the over-use of super high pitching. It's a real shame. I've looked for alternate versions, even covers - because it may suit Luka or Meiko better - but I've found none.
Yeah I guessThe concerts are really cool, even though I must admit that seeing people waving glowsticks at a hologram is quite weird.
I kinda find that the audience reaction is what sells me the whole experience the most. It's certainly weird, but I also kinda find it kinda moving and engaging. If I was there, I can't PROMISE that I wouldn't be waving right along with them and yelling MIIIKKKUUUU!!!111 between songs. You definitely get a lot of overlap with (what I imagine are) hit songs like Tell Your World and The World is Mine no matter where you turn, but as long as you watch/buy things from different events you can minimise that. I have the Magical Mirai 2013 concert and the 39's Giving Day concert from 2012, and they have mostly different songs in them. I find a lot of appeal in hearing the various arrangements, too, with the giving days having a small orchestra putting a certain flavour into well worn songs from the games. Ura-Omote Lovers with strings and saxophone is prrretty awesome.
Apparently it's a licensing nightmare to sort out, so they do keep to many of the same artists and songs a lot of the time, which is unfortunate.
Yeah, I completely agree. It's easy to be spoiled by the variety in the Diva games, because the different vocaloids attract different types of musicians/songs. I dunno how feasible it would be, but getting a number of non Crypton vocaloids together in a game, including the likes of IA and GUMI, would be a more enticing prospect. I reckon. You'd need some solid mechanics, of course, but it feels like a bigger collaboration would prompt some effort in that area, too.
Excellent! Thanks! I'll have a look right after I've whipped up some sandwiches.
Remembrance
Member
On the Rocks is a great song from the Mirai games - made specifically for the games, I think. This is also where I noticed that Kaito is higher-pitched than Meiko.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXt1jo57rKI
Nostalogic was supposed to have a younger Meiko voice, which may be the problem here. (I have no idea what happened with Stay with Me.)
Another thing that got released last November was the "Meiko-san Mix" of Nostalogic, which should help with that particular issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUY44zLeaMQ
I want to see a game where Spinal Fluid Explosion Girl can be used.
It will probably never happen.