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HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama [update: interview w/ producers]

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Mister Wolf

Gold Member
I'm sure it'll be some hamfisted, fumbling attempt at allegory to current US race relations.

But I could get that any number of other ways without seeing black men and women whipped on national TV for gore porn again.

Enough with the damn slavery stories.

Yeah I have no interest in shows based around black people as slaves or criminals on TV.
 

Barzul

Member
Is this the issue? That people see the premise and assume it's going to be an alt-right dream show endorsing/supporting them?

Well what else can it be? The people passing on it are making valid point. The confederacy is actively celebrated now, not like Germany which supressed everything related to Nazism. Hell I live in Arkansas and I see confederate flags hooked to truck beds waving in the air like every other day. I know what those people think of me and people like me. They'll it's about "Southern Pride" but everyone knows that's horseshit.

I'm actually a fan of alternate reality in movies and television, just hard to see D & D not fucking this up by trying to make the audience either sympathize with slave owners or by carving out an alt-right wet dream with a Game of Thrones sized budget.
 

Jocund

Member
Potential employment for a great amount of black thespians!

---> slavery premise

White writers/showrunners/producers, stop with that shit. We're tired.
 

entremet

Member
The Civil War is rather fascinating. Been reading up on it at length for a bit. Could be done well. My issue is that these guys may not be the best to do it.
 
Yeah those racists sure love Man in the High Castle for its lovely depiction of good ol nazis.

What the hell is this argument? It's clearly supposed to be a dystopia, that is, it's gonna make the confederacy look like a living hell for everyone who isn't a white male. Why assume the opposite from the company that brings you John Oliver? Seems beyond absurd to me.
 

Slayven

Member
I personally think this show will be the white savior trope cranked up to 600.
I am using my Shargian to see the future.


There will be the super progressive white people

The evil white people

and a few named black characters used to show why the progressive people are progressive and why the evil people are evil.

Potential employment for a great amount of black thespians!

---> slavery premise

White writers/showrunners/producers, stop with that shit. We're tired.

Says a lot when mass hiring of black actors has to involve slavery.

Black Panther so lit
 

Vyer

Member
Please, Id bet cold hard cash there will be some "woke" white girl/boy that will become the Harriet Tubman of the series leading the rebellion against their family or some shit.

Possibly, but that's different and even further speculation than what you were saying. Shit could end up pretty terrible of course, but I'd be pretty surprised if HBO and those creators were going for 'righteous hard working slave owners' as their backdrop.
 

Tonedeff

Member
Yeah those racists sure love Man in the High Castle for its lovely depiction of good ol nazis.

What the hell is this argument? It's clearly supposed to be a dystopia, that is, it's gonna make the confederacy look like a living hell for everyone who isn't a white male. Why assume the opposite from the company that brings you John Oliver? Seems beyond absurd to me.

This is pretty much my angle on this too. I'll watch it until it sucks
 
Well what else can it be? The people passing on it are making valid point. The confederacy is actively celebrated now, not like Germany which supressed everything related to Nazism. Hell I live in Arkansas and I see confederate flags hooked to truck beds waving in the air like every other day. I know what those people think of me and people like me. They'll it's about "Southern Pride" but everyone knows that's horseshit.

I'm actually a fan of alternate reality in movies and television, just hard to see D & D not fucking this up by trying to make the audience either sympathize with slave owners or by carving out an alt-right wet dream with a Game of Thrones sized budget.
The Civil War is rather fascinating. Been reading up on it at length for a bit. Could be done well. My issue is that these guys may not be the best to do it.
This is where I'm at. It's going to depend heavily on the writers and directors they get, in the execution

I keep bringing up Handmaid's Tale, but only because it's the most recent. The premise is everything your right wing misogynistic religious extremist would love, but the execution is about how fucked up and horrifying that would be. That's the kind of tastefulness this show would need
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
The show “chronicles the events leading to the Third American Civil War. The series takes place in an alternate timeline, where the southern states have successfully seceded from the Union, giving rise to a nation in which slavery remains legal and has evolved into a modern institution. The story follows a broad swath of characters on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Demilitarized Zone – freedom fighters, slave hunters, politicians, abolitionists, journalists, the executives of a slave-holding conglomerate and the families of people in their thrall.”
a) So uh, what was the Second American Civil War?

b) If the southern states have successfully seceded with a DMZ along the Mason-Dixon line... how does a war between the North and South qualify as a civil war?
 

Sunster

Member
This is where I'm at. It's going to depend heavily on the writers and directors they get, in the execution

I keep bringing up Handmaid's Tale, but only because it's the most recent. The premise is everything your right wing misogynistic religious extremist would love, but the execution is about how fucked up and horrifying that would be. That's the kind of tastefulness this show would need

thing about The Handmaid's Tale is that it's about strong women being strong. ITT people are worried this show will be about black people needing to be saved.
 

zelas

Member
I doubt this show is going to be aboug confederate southerners getting murdered every 15 minutes so I'll pass.

thing about The Handmaid's Tale is that it's about strong women being strong. ITT people are worried this show will be about black people needing to be saved.
There's no chance the show wont have zero depictions of black people suffering or the negativity surrounding slavery period. I have zero tolerance for fictional shows exploring that right now. I dont care how a black character would overcome it.
 
We're just sick of seeing slavery shows/movies in general. Thank god Black Panther comes out in 7 months.

There's plenty of other great Black programming than Black Panther coming out in 7 months. Thank god for Insecure season 2 coming out this weekend on HBO, no less.
 

danm999

Member
I just don't see a plausible geopolitical explanation for how institutionalised slavery survives another 150 years in the West even if the South wins the Civil War.

And if you're going to make it that they just modified the institution to be more informal you aren't making alternative history anymore.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
That's my question, I've seen several people thinking this will glorify slave ownership, but nothing in the description alludes to that.

Has nothing to do with thinking its glorifying slavery and everything to do with having zero interest in a show based around black people being slaves, servants, criminals, etc.
 
thing about The Handmaid's Tale is that it's about strong women being strong. ITT people are worried this show will be about black people needing to be saved.

Could be strong black people saving themselves or with the help of strong black people, no one knows yet.

I mean I'd get it if you just don't want to see anything at all involving slavery, but being outraged about something that we have so details of, just seems like a waste of breath
 
I just don't see a plausible geopolitical explanation for how institutionalised slavery survives another 150 years in the West even if the South wins the Civil War.

And if you're going to make it that they just modified the institution to be more informal you aren't making alternative history anymore.

I don't see a plausible explanation for how ships could travel faster than light, but that doesn't stop me from watching sci-fi.
 
That's my question, I've seen several people thinking this will glorify slave ownership, but nothing in the description alludes to that.

It says slavery will be "modernized" so it's hard to say exactly what form that will take.

For Americans at least, there's a degree of detachment that comes with something like "what if Nazis" that won't be there with "what if Confederacy." It's not strange to be concerned, especially considering it's the GoT guys.

No matter how this plays out, the way it's seen by black people will undoubtedly be different from how it's seen by everyone else.
 
The reaction online to this is literally the same reaction to Secret Empire. This is not a good time for alt-history.

Alt-History isn't inherently bad, at any time.

Alt-Civil War history isn't a good look for a nation that has yet to truly come to terms with the far reaching results of centuries of enslaving and dehumanizing a group of people.

Think about that. IRL, we never truly dealt with that stain on our nation but we want to show a vision of what if the South didn't truly lose? WHAT?
 

Sunster

Member
Could be strong black people saving themselves or with the help of strong black people, no one knows yet.

I mean I'd get it if you just don't want to see anything at all involving slavery, but being outraged about something that we have so details of, just seems like a waste of breath

I don't think anyone is outraged. just saying no thanks to the concept.
 
Has nothing to do with thinking its glorifying slavery and everything to do with having zero interest in a show based around black people being slaves, servants, criminals, etc.

Yeah I get that perspective, I was alluding to more of those that show is going to show specific things that disagree with (glorifying slavery, white saviour trope etc)

In the end the ratings will dictate how long the show lasts, if enough people vote by not watching it, then the show will die a quick death
 
It says slavery will be "modernized" so it's hard to say exactly what form that will take.
I wonder how much Underground Airlines influenced this. Like it's nearly the same premise, except the 2nd-3rd Civil War part (Civil War never happened, Lincoln was assassinated before his inauguration)
 
I just don't get why.

Like why would you want to explore what the world would be like if Black folk were still slaves in America in 2017....

Like what's so interesting and appealing about that.
 
I don't think anyone is outraged. just saying no thanks to the concept.
Some are saying no thanks to what they think the show might show, instead of the general idea of slavery itself. I totally understand and hear that for those That are not interested in the topic at all
 

Sunster

Member
Yeah I get that perspective, I was alluding to more of those that show is going to show specific things that disagree with (glorifying slavery, white saviour trope etc)

In the end the ratings will dictate how long the show lasts, if enough people vote by not watching it, then the show will die a quick death

In a show about black slaves owned by white people written by 2 white guys with a history of writing about white saviors saving black people I am pretty comfortable assuming that there will be a few in this show.

I just don't get why.

Like why would you want to explore what the world would be like if Black folk were still slaves in America in 2017....

Like what's so interesting and appealing about that.

Really though this is the question. "Hey what if this oppressed and marginalized group was still in chains and considered subhuman property? Let's explore that!"
 
I just don''t get why.

Like why would you want to explore what the world would be like if Black folk were still slaves in America in 2017....

Like what's so interesting and appealing about that.

You know as well as I do, there is a large segment of the nation that would like to see this vision. It is extremely interesting and appealing to them.

Call it the Alt-Wakanda if you will. -_____-
 
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/game-of-thrones-weiss-benioff-confederate-hbo-series


I love that Vanity Fair literally used this image as their headline image for their article on this announcement:

24-Mhysa-1920x1080.jpg
 
All I can picture is a show where black folk are getting called the n-word and being treated like shit. We got enough of that in the actually reality.
 
All I can picture is a show where black folk are getting called the n-word and being treated like shit. We got enough of that in the actually reality.

Don't worry, there will be moments of a slow burn and eventual comeuppance but like excelsiorlef said, it will be lost on the fans of that character getting their just due.

"Fucking PISSED they killed off Jefferson Lee! He was the fucking MAN! Done with this snowflake fucking show."
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
No thanks. Reading thread title I actually thought this was something to do with marvel civil war lol.

I hope this never actually airs. Offensive as fuck.

Essentially the same concept as man in the high castle though.
 
In a show about black slaves owned by white people written by 2 white guys with a history of writing about white saviors saving black people I am pretty comfortable assuming that there will be a few in this show.



Really though this is the question. "Hey what if this oppressed and marginalized group was still in chains and considered subhuman property? Let's explore that!"

Benioff and Weiss didn't make the white saviour issue, that was the author of the book.
 

jerry113

Banned
Alternative history is a fascinating and largely unexplored genre. If it's anything like Man in the High Castle, I'm in.

You really think they're going to portray slave owners in a positive light? This is going to be a 1984-esque / V for Vendetta dystopia.
 
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