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HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part 1 OT | Endure & Survive

Ulysses 31

Ulysses 31

Member
Roni said:
She definitely was if it meant progress for a cure at the end of TLOU. That's the whole point of what she told Joel before he lied.

"I'm still waiting for my turn"
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Then I think it's a cruel streak in Ellie's character to actively work to get Joel so attached to her, knowing how the loss of Sarah affected him, while all that time being ready to instantly cut him from her life for the vaccine.

I can see her agreeing with the operation if asked(though I'm 50/50 on that after how attached she got to Joel) and after saying goodbyes first but being OK with getting killed without informed consent, I'm having trouble believing.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
MV5BNzc5MjkzZWEtMjBmZS00NDJlLWI3N2UtNzgwYmI4ZGM5ODM5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyOTMwNjQ3Nzg@._V1_.jpg


If Sophie Thatcher was Ellie she would've fit much better with Pedro Pascal. Maybe she wasn't "fluid" enough.
 
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Roni

Roni

Member
Ulysses 31 said:
Then I think it's a cruel streak in Ellie's character to actively work to get Joel so attached to her, knowing how the loss of Sarah affected him, while all that time being ready to instantly cut him from her life for the vaccine.

I can see her agreeing with the operation if asked(though I'm 50/50 on that after how attached she got to Joel) and after saying goodbyes first but being OK with getting killed without informed consent, I'm having trouble believing.
Click to expand...
You can't control what someone feels for you. Ellie's goal was always to use what happened to her, and loss of life incurred along the way, to attempt to save humanity.

Ellie wasn't looking to hurt Joel. It's tragic, but not cruel. Cruel implies planning and deliberation.

The end came down to power and the most powerful had his way, independent of who was actually right. Even who was right is debatable: the world changed and CBI happened in TLOU's universe. Some would say humanity wasn't supposed to rule the world anymore and attempting to sacrifice humans (children included) wasn't the way to go about fixing this.

This was, once again, humans abusing their intelligence to take a shortcut to progress, all the while telling themselves the price was worth it.
 
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Ulysses 31

Ulysses 31

Member
Roni said:
You can't control what someone feels for you. Ellie's goal was always to use what happened to her, and loss of life incurred along the way, to attempt to save humanity.

Ellie wasn't looking to hurt Joel. It's tragic, but not cruel. Cruel implies planning and deliberation.

The end came down to power and the most powerful had his way, independent of who was actually right. Even who was right is debatable: the world changed and CBI happened in TLOU's universe. Some would say humanity wasn't supposed to rule the world anymore and attempting to sacrifice humans (children included) wasn't the way to go about fixing this.

This was, once again, humans abusing their intelligence to take a shortcut to progress, all the while telling themselves the price was worth it.
Click to expand...
The cruelty is being ready to visit the pain Joel suffered from losing Sarah on him again without so much as goodbye or informing him first. Surely Ellie was not blind to this having lost people herself.

Even if she isn't actively out to hurt Joel in that way, her nonchalance in the matter it's what makes it cruel and it seems uncharacteristic with what TLOU1 shows of Ellie IMO.

The Fireflies' mishandling of the situation is what did them in, if they'd been more reasonable and gave Ellie(and Joel) a choice, who knows how things might've turned out.
 
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semiconscious

semiconscious

Member
Ulysses 31 said:
The Fireflies' mishandling of the situation is what did them in, if they'd been more reasonable and gave Ellie(and Joel) a choice, who knows how things might've turned out.
Click to expand...
they're very similar to wokesters in this - their single-minded obsessiveness, & impatience, to their minds, justifies whatever they do in the name of 'saving humanity', however they choose to do it. it also overrides any moral considerations, including any concerns about their untested planned 'experiment'. their desperation has pushed them beyond being 'reasonable'. i just recently replayed the original, & that scene with joel & marlene after he & ellie have arrived at the lab makes all this very clear...
 
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Roni

Roni

Member
Ulysses 31 said:
The cruelty is being ready to visit the pain Joel suffered from losing Sarah on him again without so much as goodbye or informing him first. Surely Ellie was not blind to this having lost people herself.

Even if she isn't actively out to hurt Joel in that way, her nonchalance in the matter it's what makes it cruel and it seems uncharacteristic with what TLOU1 shows of Ellie IMO.

The Fireflies' mishandling of the situation is what did them in, if they'd been more reasonable and gave Ellie(and Joel) a choice, who knows how things might've turned out.
Click to expand...
It's important to point out the cruelty you refer to comes after the fact too. Ellie was out from the tunnel and never woke up until she was in the car with Joel, another result of the aforementioned mishandling of the situation by Marlene and the Fireflies.

Regardless, she seems pretty adamant (even four years later) that she would've chosen suicide for the progress of the experiment. I still wouldn't label it as cruel, just tragic. I don't see Ellie actively trying to get Joel to like her. It's as he himself put it in the beginning of TLOU2:

You cross half the country with someone, you're bound to attach yourself whether you want to or not.
 
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Ulysses 31

Ulysses 31

Member
Roni said:
It's important to point out the cruelty you refer to comes after the fact too. Ellie was out from the tunnel and never woke up until she was in the car with Joel, another result of the aforementioned mishandling of the situation by Marlene and the Fireflies.

Regardless, she seems pretty adamant (even four years later) that she would've chosen suicide for the progress of the experiment. I still wouldn't label it as cruel, just tragic. I don't see Ellie actively trying to get Joel to like her. It's as he himself put it in the beginning of TLOU2:

You cross half the country with someone, you're bound to attach yourself whether you want to or not.
Click to expand...
Saying you would be OK with that operation that will kill you and consciencely partake in such an operation are different things. That's why it was so important that she'd given informed consent first. Without that certainty, Ellie can't really blame Joel for intervening IMO, the lying sure.

And it still strikes me as uncharacteristic of Ellie that she didn't seem to care how Joel would feel never seeing her conscience/alive again after she nearly drowned.

She let Joel explicitly know that she cares for him and feels safer around him, she was pushing for a closer relationship which ultimately worked.
 
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Roni

Roni

Member
Ulysses 31 said:
Saying you would be OK with that operation that will kill you and consciencely partake in such an operation are different things. That's why it was so important that she'd given informed consent first. Without that certainty, Ellie can't really blame Joel for intervening IMO, the lying sure.

And it still strikes me as uncharacteristic of Ellie that she didn't seem to care how Joel would feel never seeing her conscience/alive again after she nearly drowned.

She let Joel explicitly know that she cares for him and feels safer around him, she was pushing for a closer relationship which ultimately worked.
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I agree with you on the first paragraph and I suspect the writing was done the way it was precisely to muddy the water and leave that question hanging.

However, I don't think she was pushing for a closer relationship with Joel. She was leaving it pretty clear she wasn't Sarah, but she trusted Joel more than Tommy and that dealing with a stranger from there on out would scare her more on the way there. But the objective was always getting to the Fireflies and letting them do their thing, as she repeatedly says during Spring: we need to see this through.

She wanted Joel to take her there, but once there she couldn't really know if there would be a future for her or not. After winter, it was Joel making up plans for the future, not her. Joel offered to teach her how to play guitar once the journey was over, but she just kept silent in that moment. Maybe out of trauma from what had happened during the winter, but maybe because she was scared of what it would actually take to make the vaccine.

It seems clear the priority was always the development of the cure, regardless of the cost to her and, indirectly, Joel.
 
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Ulysses 31

Ulysses 31

Member
Roni said:
I agree with you on the first paragraph and I suspect the writing was done the way it was precisely to muddy the water and leave that question hanging.

However, I don't think she was pushing for a closer relationship with Joel. She was leaving it pretty clear she wasn't Sarah, but she trusted Joel more than Tommy and that dealing with a stranger from there on out would scare her more on the way there. But the objective was always getting to the Fireflies and letting them do their thing, as she repeatedly says during Spring: we need to see this through.

She wanted Joel to take her there, but once there she couldn't really know if there would be a future for her or not. After winter, it was Joel making up plans for the future, not her. Joel offered to teach her how to play guitar once the journey was over, but she just kept silent in that moment. Maybe out of trauma from what had happened during the winter, but maybe because she was scared of what it would actually take to make the vaccine.

It seems clear the priority was always the development of the cure, regardless of the cost to her and, indirectly, Joel.
Click to expand...
The fact they face so many dangers to get to the hospital lends credence that she might be willing to die for the vaccine, but would she be OK without ever getting a choice, without caring if she sees Joel one last time after their bonding? That's the part I'm having trouble buying with what I've seen of Ellie's character in TLOU1.

There's still the conversation Joel and Ellie have before the hospital talking about a future together and she agreeing with what Joel wants to do and Joel making it clear he's not leaving her side anymore. If the possibility of dying was on her mind you'd think she'd bring it up then but she never does. Would Ellie really lead Joel on like that if the possibility of dying was on her mind? Again, I doubt it.
 
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Ulysses 31 said:
The fact they face so many dangers to get to the hospital lends credence that she might be willing to die for the vaccine, but would she be OK without ever getting a choice, without caring if she sees Joel one last time after their bonding? That's the part I'm having trouble buying with what I've seen of Ellie's character in TLOU1.

There's still the conversation Joel and Ellie have before the hospital talking about a future together and she agreeing with what Joel wants to do and Joel making it clear he's not leaving her side anymore. If the possibility of dying was on her mind you'd think she'd bring it up then but she never does. Would Ellie really lead Joel on like that if the possibility of dying was on her mind? Again, I doubt it.
Click to expand...

This argument is flawed.

I can make plans with my family next year, but if I was told by the doctor that needs to have surgery to save my life next week and the chances of survival were 40%, then that doesn't mean I deceived my family by making plans for the future.

She didn't think the operation would kill her and that's why she made plans. It's that simple. Repeating this argument isn't going to work because it's flawed and illogical.

We're telling you Ellie's thought process in The Last of Us Part I and confirming it with Part II. What you're doing is trying to convince us that The Last of Us Part II is not cannon and it's not working. lol
 
Jaybe

Jaybe

Member
Nice to have the episode keep focus mostly on Joel and Ellie, good action scene, on the negative side I don’t think Edit Melanie Lynskey works well in that role. I don’t remember her character from the game, but it’s been a while
 
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M

Mercenary09

Member
Yeah that episode didn't do that section from the game justice imo. Lot of things just felt rushed. Casting Tommy's VO as a new character and him still sounding exactly like Tommy is stupid too. He should've just been playing Tommy instead of that new guy they hired to play him.
 
A

AlphaDump

Gold Member
Not sure about this episode. It seemed oddly cut, like when ellie shot the guy but they didn't really show it. Or some of the interactions with Joel and ellie.

Also Bella Ramsey has been fine so far...but this episode... her acting seemed oddly out of place and almost emotionless despite everything going on. Her range worries me a bit considering where this is going.

Next episode looks like it will be awesome though.
 
Katajx

Katajx

Member
Was a good episode. I feel like I need to go through a replay again soon. I am enjoying Joel, but Ellie still seems…off.
 
saintjules

saintjules

Gold Member
Jaybe said:
on the negative side I don’t think Megan Mullally works well in that role. I don’t remember her character from the game, but it’s been a while
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Do you mean Melanie Lynskey playing Kathleen? She's a new character, just like Perry is. Unless you're referring to someone else.

BTW, seeing the preview for episode 5, I noticed Henry doing sign language. Did they make Sam deaf? Or maybe it's their way of communicating when enemies are around.
 
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DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Seems like this episode was used to set up episode 5 and I'm ok with that. This episode focused on the bonding between Joel and Ellie, and using the joke book was a good move in my opinion.

Episode 5 should be very entertaining based on the previews.
 
reinking

reinking

Gold Member
I am really glad the adaptation is doing the source material justice. We need more "video game" to movie/television adaptations to be good. There are a lot of franchises I would like to see make the jump if done in the right way.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Good episode but casting that chick from Two and a Half Men for this dramatic role is a mistake. This is the second time they've done this. First with Nick Offerman who I personally felt out of place in a serious role, and now this chick. Way too many miscasts in one show. Bella was decent at making jokes but im still not seeing Ellie in her. Pedro is alright but way too 'Dad of War' so far.

Sets look fantastic, but man one small fight scene with like 3 dudes, two of whom get shot off screen is a bizarre choice. This was supposed to be the episode with the SECOND bloater and the tank chase sequence. So they meet up with Sam and Henry BEFORE they even get chased through the city? I feel like they skipped like 2 hours of ingame content.
 
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Interesting points

- This wasn't the first time Ellie killed someone. They might show her killing Riley instead of just walking away.
- It was made clear this time that Joel, Tess, and Tommy did in fact ambush innocent people in order to survive.
- The backstory of Tommy and Tess.
 
Represent.

Represent.

Banned
Ellies joke books, the jizz on the magazine, A1.

The Bloater foreshadowing, that thing is definitely coming in the next few episodes.
 
3liteDragon

3liteDragon

Member
Another great episode, felt a little slow in the beginning. Really liking the bonding between the two & Bella's doing an amazing job so far, she's really grown on me now. Felt kinda awkward listening to OG Tommy doing a new character lol.
 
ChiefDada

ChiefDada

Gold Member
SlimySnake said:
Good episode but casting that chick from Two and a Half Men for this dramatic role is a mistake. This is the second time they've done this. First with Nick Offerman who I personally felt out of place in a serious role, and now this chick. Way too many miscasts in one show. Bella was decent at making jokes but im still not seeing Ellie in her. Pedro is alright but way too 'Dad of War' so far.

Sets look fantastic, but man one small fight scene with like 3 dudes, two of whom get shot off screen is a bizarre choice. This was supposed to be the episode with the SECOND bloater and the tank chase sequence. So they meet up with Sam and Henry BEFORE they even get chased through the city? I feel like they skipped like 2 hours of ingame content.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about the woman, her acting was very stale and left much to be desired. But you missed the mark with the Nick Offerman/serious role bit. Go watch Devs, he's excellent in serious roles.


DForce said:
Interesting points

- This wasn't the first time Ellie killed someone. They might show her killing Riley instead of just walking away.
- It was made clear this time that Joel, Tess, and Tommy did in fact ambush innocent people in order to survive.
- The backstory of Tommy and Tess.
Click to expand...

I always thought it was insinuated that Ellie had to have killed Riley once she turned "before her" for obvious reasons. How else would she have escaped?
 
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