It's right where I knew it would be. You pick it if you don't get Mage/Pally/Shaman.
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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
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It's right where I knew it would be. You pick it if you don't get Mage/Pally/Shaman.
Thought it would be one place higher at least, suprised at Shaman and Rogue.
Wish Blizz could commit to some pricing details and a release date for Naxx, now I don't know if I should stockpile gold or spend it.
Kind of feel like saving up 2k gold to be able to do infinite (hope so) arena runs. Or just buy 20 packs in one go.
Wish Blizz could commit to some pricing details and a release date for Naxx, now I don't know if I should stockpile gold or spend it.
Kind of feel like saving up 2k gold to be able to do infinite (hope so) arena runs. Or just buy 20 packs in one go.
Tatersalad
Member
Surprised Rogue is #1, Mage is close but I would have thought it'd be at the top easily.
Druid's class cards just aren't that individually potent. They generally require a good amount of deck synergy to work. Druids have no hard removal and it's fairly common to not even get any soft removal. Conversely, this is part of why Mage is so strong is arena. All of their strong cards are equally potent no matter what other cards the draft gives you.
Also all of their most important cards are common or basic cards. You can be reasonably certain that you will get a good mix of fireballs/polys/frostbolts/flamestrikes. There are no rare or epic Mage cards that are vital or even as good as those 4 cards. On the other hand, a Druid deck without Keepers of the Grove, Ancients of Lore, and Force of Nature is significantly crippled.
Impeccable
Member
Unless of course, you like to have fun.
Mage was #1 in the march report. The numbers he posted must be from a couple months ago. Although the numbers are still really close, you have to consider that Mage was picked twice as much as Rogue, so the win rate is actually much more impressive. It means that there are twice as many mirror matches for Mage as for Rogue, thus twice as many losses for Mage from mirror matches.
I don't get your point, all these decks are vastly different from the one posted?. As I said, of course there are similarities like Fire Elemental etc. but that's just because they are run in every Shaman deck. The one posted is never the less far from the standard Shaman.
@BananaWithGuns: I think that explains my innitial assessment, molding different ideas into one. I would recommend to just test it out further and explicitly take note on how often cards like Bloodlust and Windfury are in your hand without being useful, the same goes for the other cards but I would expect these two to be especially volatile in their usefulness.
The numbers I posted are from right now, today. From hearthstats.net.
Here's both Arena and Constructed.
Cards that are in all of these decks
Earth Shock x2
Lightning Bolt x2
Rockbiter x2
Argent Squire x2
Flametongue Totem x2
Feral Spirit x2
Hex x2
Lightning Storm x2
Mana Tide Totem x1
Unbound Elemental x2
Azure Drake x2 or Azure Drake and Gadgetzaan
Fire Elemental x2
That's 23 cards that are in all of those decks.
Cards that are not exactly the same but play similar roles:
2 chargers represented by some combination of Al'Akir, Leeroy, Argent Commanders.
2 low-midrange critters. Bananas is using Harvest Golems, decks I linked used Defenders of Argus.
27 cards.
The remaining differences are up to flavour, personal preference, and hedging vs. the decks you seem to be facing.
Maybe we just have vastly different expectations for variation, but this is about as much variation as you see in Miracle Rogue, Face Hunter, Kolento Hunter, Control Warrior, Token Druid, or any other archetype deck you could name.
Oh cool. Do you have to sign up to get the current stats? I can only find the march report on their website.The numbers I posted are from right now, today. From hearthstats.net.
Here's both Arena and Constructed.
Yes, you may have to sign up. It shows up at the bottom of my dashboard. I'd highly recommend using Hearthstats. They have an app you download and it tracks everything for you, they have a Mac version of the app, too. If you play exclusively on iPad though, you'll have to track by hand. When I play on iPad I just take a screenshot at the beginning and end of a game, then go back and enter it all by hand.
I guess so, imo a 23% deviation from the standard can hardly be the standard itself, especially if we're talking about such a small card pool anyways. Additionally, I would argue that the deviations in the decks you've mentioned are all way smaller in how they effect the deck and even more important still true to the general idea of the deck while this is not the case here. Also as a side note I would hardly compare a Harvest Golem to a DoA as their use and sinergy is completely different but that is a good example of how supposedly small changes can have a significant impact on the deck.
Yeah, you can basically rank the classes in arena based on the quality of their commons/basics. See also: Warlock's mostly bad class cards and their abysmal performance is arena.
Disagree. One of the biggest problems with Pally is that their hero ability is weak and is countered hard by most other hero abilities (druid, rogue, mage). This makes those classes think twice about wiping out that 1/1 token.
Obviously we have to see what else they get but this is a nice start. I really want to play pally but they are so limited with their current card set.
Curious if you can select the target when this procs.
Minsc
Gold Member
Well, if they use the hero power to make the 1/1 token with the secret out turn 2 or whatever, it will either not trigger, because there are no other minions out, or will trigger and fizzle, so it does nothing to prevent classes from killing their tokens early game. Late game, well, a +3/+2 that works randomly and requires board presence / other cards, or an actual card that'd be a threat on its own... hard to want the +3/+2.
Also, there's no way they'd let you pick the target, the game is made to not allow you to play during your opponent's turn, nothing will change that imo. Certainly worth paying attention to, but I'm not expecting it to allow interaction.
Turn 1 one drop, turn 2 - 2 drop plus coin, secret or another 1 drop plus secret. Worgen infiltrator and Argent squire look real strong for this combination. It would get stronger in the turn 3/4 rounds when you're struggling for board control. 3/2 upgrade for 1 mana is strong if you get it to work and can swing games.
I'm not saying this card alone fixes pally but this is a good start.
Right? I think it might be everyone but us.
Minsc
Gold Member
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The new paladin card looks pretty good imo. I think the "random" part is assumed.
Now that stats show rogues win a whole 1% more than the next class, people are going to cry about rogues.
Now that stats show rogues win a whole 1% more than the next class, people are going to cry about rogues.
I dunno. I still feel mage and pally get picked more often and rogue gets picked by better players, thus having better stats.
I agree, and it's really not a whole percent like Mobius said, it's really only .09 difference between Rogue and Mage in arena.
Then the hunter plays Flare and explosive trap.
And we're on turn 3, I still have squire on board and hunter has wasted Explosive trap on two one drops. Any play in this game has a very specific counter that you can name. But one class being able to hard counter a card doesn't make it bad. My point is that pally's are often hard pressed to get early board control because of the hard counter by most hero abilities and the the overall weakness of their ability. Agree to disagree.
Seriously, stay away from Priest in Arena.
Interesting. My 12 win runs have been with Druid, Shaman, Mage, Paladin and Priest. I don't think I've ever gone more than 7 wins with Rogue. I just don't know how to play them.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You are pulling a stapleton on me! lol
But seriously, people will complain about rogue now (or later) because of the perception that rogues are OP because they win a whole ~1% more than the next class.
Minsc
Gold Member
Ok, turn 3, mage hero blasts the squire, and then casts an arcane missile. Arcane missile kills both creatures simultaneously, the secret never triggers.
Besides, the chances of even getting the secret with another 1-drop and a 2-drop in your starting hand are not the best to begin with.
Let's say you get the secret, a 4-drop, a 2-drop and 3-drop. Or a 1 drop, 1 drop, 2-drop, and a 4-drop (no secret this time). What do you mulligan each time? Only to pick up a 6-drop and a 2-drop.
This is the biggest problem with this secret. It would only help a paladin rush deck.
Hands down the least exciting Naxxramas card shown so far. It is way too early to tell but I don't see my favourite class getting better any time soon.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I can see why one would think it is a rush card. But I think it is more of a midrange/tempo card personally. A board control deck for example, similar to zoolock.
I've seen rush paladin decks, and they easy to confuse with the low curve bc variant, mainly differing in the amount of charge minions used. I personally think a rush paladin deck sucks. I don't see a secret making them better since you cannot trigger it on your turn, meaning your card is going to be played around and removed.
I think it'll be good for midrange/tempo and maybe some secret control deck.
You win, you've countered my start with two very specific plays. Everyone plays mage with arcane missles right? No pally will ever play the card, it will never upgrade a unit and give you a chance to turn a 2-3 into a 5-5 and get board control early/mid game.
And if we're talking about mulligan. I know every hunter I play always keeps explosive trap and Flare in their starting hand instead of fishing for UtH and buzzard? And Magic missles always hits the exact targets you want right?
I'm just trying to describe some scenarios where the card would work, your coming up with perfect plays that hard counter. You can do that for any board/situation in the game but that's not how the game works. You play the cards in your hand, not randomly select the best for every situation.
If you get early board control with 2/3 units this could have some really nice outcomes around turn 3/4 that could change the game. If you can make the card work consistently gettign 3/2 for one mana is amazing value.
Edit: good debate. looking forward to playing the new cards. We also can't say how viable or non viable this card would be because we don't know every other card being introduced. 30 new cards with specific intentions is going to change the meta for sure.
Minsc
Gold Member
You win, you've countered my start with two very specific plays. Everyone plays mage with arcane missles right? No pally will ever play the card, it will never upgrade a unit and give you a chance to turn a 2-3 into a 5-5 and get board control early/mid game.
And if we're talking about mulligan. I know every hunter I play always keeps explosive trap and Flare in their starting hand instead of fishing for UtH and buzzard? And Magic missles always hits the exact targets you want right?
I'm just trying to describe some scenarios where the card would work, your coming up with perfect plays that hard counter. You can do that for any board/situation in the game but that's not how the game works. You play the cards in your hand, not randomly select the best for every situation.
If you get early board control with 2/3 units this could have some really nice outcomes around turn 3/4 that could change the game. If you can make the card work consistently gettign 3/2 for one mana is amazing value.
Edit: good debate. looking forward to playing the new cards. We also can't say how viable or non viable this card would be because we don't know every other card being introduced. 30 new cards with specific intentions is going to change the meta for sure.
I'm aware of the scenarios it could work, I'm just saying there's a lot more where it doesn't work in.
Shaman. Rockbiter weapon your 2/3, and Earthshock your new 1/1 turned 4/3 token to its death for 1 mana. Or lightning bolt it. And so on. The secret does not seem too great to me. It requires you to have 2 creatures on the board to trigger, and Paladin generally has problems leaving two creatures on the board early game in my experience. It also triggers on your opponent's turn, so you can't capitalize as much on it, as they will be able to react to it before you can.
You say I'm countering it with one or two specific examples, and that's not really true. Every class has a ways to counter it, and again, you're assuming you'd even have two creatures on the board and still be able to play the secret before turn 4 or 5. And you're creating very specific situations where you actually get the secret and have two creatures to play on the board early game. I'll cut you a little slack if you start using the Murlocs or whatever cards play 2 creatures in one action though.
In my experience, if you play a creature, it dies. If you play two creatures, they both die. Everything has a lifespan of about 1 turn in this game, except maybe a Harvest golem. But that can't really be played with another minion until turn 4 or 5 again.
The issue with Avenge early is that it also means you dumped most of your hand to get a 5/3 or 4/3. It's an interesting card from a mechanics perspective but the current utility of it is low since there's very little Paladin early game to take advantage of this card in their current decks. That said, the most likely value target I can see for it right now is Sunfury Protector / Defender of Argus getting pushed into a 5/5.
It could be a decent value Arena pick as it's almost guaranteed to go off for some value if played right, though there's also the chance it just sits dead in hand way too often early game.
Rogue has always had a super high win-rate in Arena so I'd hope not :x
While this is true, this also means that my 1/1 token ate an Earth Shock that would normally be reserved for Tirion or Cairne or Sylvanas. A Lightning Bolt that is valuable reach. Rockbiter was used so their burst window went down -6. For a 1 mana secret, I'll probably be satisfied with that. The issue here is the card cost of running it. What's cut for it and how do you recoup the cards in hand.
I wouldn't look at it as the card that sets up a play that wins the game for you. Just more of a way to create a target that gets some kind of extra value than normal.
It could be a decent value Arena pick as it's almost guaranteed to go off for some value if played right, though there's also the chance it just sits dead in hand way too often early game.
Rogue has always had a super high win-rate in Arena so I'd hope not :x
While this is true, this also means that my 1/1 token ate an Earth Shock that would normally be reserved for Tirion or Cairne or Sylvanas. A Lightning Bolt that is valuable reach. Rockbiter was used so their burst window went down -6. For a 1 mana secret, I'll probably be satisfied with that. The issue here is the card cost of running it. What's cut for it and how do you recoup the cards in hand.
I wouldn't look at it as the card that sets up a play that wins the game for you. Just more of a way to create a target that gets some kind of extra value than normal.
schadenfood
Member
I wonder if they're going to identify expansion cards at all with a little icon like MTG. Doesn't look like there's anything on the new Pally card.
Kind of makes sense that they wouldn't, but I always liked seeing the new logos for each new MTG set.
Kind of makes sense that they wouldn't, but I always liked seeing the new logos for each new MTG set.
veloxStrix
Banned
Went to Arena today for the first time in a while.
First two opponents were Mages with Legendary card backs. x_x
First two opponents were Mages with Legendary card backs. x_x
DyslexicAlucard
Member
While I agree with this, I think another key factor to a class's arena success is its hero ability. If your ability affects the board at all, it's a major advantage because it allows you to do something early on even if your draft/draw is poor.
Hence another reason why Rogue, Mage, Paladin, Shaman and Druid are at the top. Rogues are really helped by their hero ability because it's extremely mana-efficient; you can dagger up on turn 2, hit an opponent or minion on turn 3 and still play a three drop. Alternatively, dagger turn two, Deadly Poison to kill your opponent's minion and play your own two drop as well.
Plus both of those options leave the Rogue with yet another charge of their weapon.
The difference is literally more than 10x smaller than 1%, so it's not "~1%" at all. Plus, 1% would be negligible anyway.
Like has been said, I think Mage will continue to be the main arena pick for most because it's just a really easy class to play.
Grrr
MisterArrogant
Neo Member
I wouldn't say they're totally helpless. I played one in arena the other day. Lightspawn on turn 4. Two Divine Spirits on turn 5 and I was trying to stave off a 20/20 as a Paladin with no hard removal. I got pretty wrecked.
Gimmicky hand. A single Ironbeak Owl and his day would've been ruined.
Being good in Arena is not about how strong your gimmicks are, but how consistently you can get them and play them every game.
In that sense, Rogue is much better, because Combo is trivial to trigger.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
This is the pack I got my Rag in
Oddly enough, Priest is my most consistent class in Arena. I can almost always get 7 wins with it, but then it hits a ceiling. Other classes can usually get to 6 wins as well (though not as consistently as with Priest,) but the ceiling of crazy decks is easier to beat with them than with Priest.
Hydranockz
Member
So I have decided to sater saving up ahead of time for the Summer releases. I have 330 gold at the moment and sure I will play Arena maybe once every so often but it feels pretty good to not instinctively sped it as soon as I have it.
KojiKnight
Member
I've done the same... Tempted to run an arena (have just over 400g saved since my birthday purge) but afraid I'll get gambler-itis and have to spend it all.
Meaning that the secret won't trigger unless you have a 2nd minion on the board for it to buff?
I don't know why, but I went into arena again. You guys really have to share the secret here, because I just ain't seeing the point. I drafted a decent deck and made it to 6 wins without losses, a personal record for me. Then I ran into a Paladin with 2x Consecration, Equality, Avenging Wrath, Hammer of Wrath, 3x Truesilver, 2x Guardian of Kings, Humility and a Sunwalker. After that I ran into a Hunter with Starving Buzzard, Unleash the Hounds, Bestial Wrath, 2x Beast Companion, Hunter's Mark, Tracking, Arcane Shot, Deadly Shot and Explosive Shot.
Counting the 55 gold I got from it as compensation for the entry price, the only thing I have to show for this run (9 matches) compared to just buying a pack is 45 dust and a lot of frustration.
How the f do you guys consistently get 6+ win runs? HOW?
Counting the 55 gold I got from it as compensation for the entry price, the only thing I have to show for this run (9 matches) compared to just buying a pack is 45 dust and a lot of frustration.
How the f do you guys consistently get 6+ win runs? HOW?
hunter
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
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