-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
- Start date
- Status
Shadowstep seems like a reasonable nerf to me.
0 mana to return a minion to your hand AND it costs 2 less...
If by RNG here you mean "they have Legendaries and I don't yet" then, okay, I guess. There's a lot of powerful Legendary cards. They're not fully required but they're nice to have. If this is about actual effect RNG stuff then I really have to disagree. It's not like every game is decided by an actual flip of the coin RNG. There's actual planning going on.
I just don't understand the whole "I was playing perfectly and then they did their deck's entire gimmick and then I lost" argument. Like, if you were playing perfectly vs a Miracle Rogue or something, you were playing around the important HP breakpoints of their damage and current mana. That's not getting unlucky. That's losing to their gameplan.
I can understand disliking the meta but it has the subtle changes here and there (e.g., Miracle Rogue dropping a Blade Flurry for BGH when Handlock shows up more than aggro decks) until a deck becomes popular enough to remove an entire option from the meta. It does change fairly often, but it's usually subtle changes until something major happens.
Play something that counters it. Early game aggro decks. Handlock.
Miracle Rogue is hard to do something about without gutting it from working at all, really. A limit to Shadowstep would probably be the most it could do but then it'd just be Malygod Miracle Rogue (and would make Shadowstep pretty bad, honestly). Without a way to interact with it somehow, it's really hard to deal with combo decks. Dunno if we'll see anything targeting these kinds of combos in particular.
theMrCravens
Member
Post rank ~10 is all about RNG and especially time commitment.
At that rank, I'm assuming people got decent skills and most cards, but RNG will mostly get you a little over 50% wins.
So at that point it's all about time commitment, which sucks for some of us.
RNG will not get you those wins. It's mostly knowing your deck, knowing their deck, and playing it out properly. If you're going to sit there and hope for "luck" to win out for you, you're going to have a rough time trying to rank up. It really is mostly time and playing consistently.
Again, unless you mean "I didn't open any Legendaries gg." Which really only matters if you're trying to play certain decks / certain specific tech cards. There's many viable decks that don't need a ton of Epic / Legendaries. It's mostly the Control-archetype decks that require a ton of cards.
Again, unless you mean "I didn't open any Legendaries gg." Which really only matters if you're trying to play certain decks / certain specific tech cards. There's many viable decks that don't need a ton of Epic / Legendaries. It's mostly the Control-archetype decks that require a ton of cards.
theMrCravens
Member
The ranked mode becomes boring because of the meta here. Everyone has a plan, everyone has cards that they plan to use in various ways, depending on what the board looks like. And the RNG I'm talking about is what cards you have in your hand towards the end of the match.
My problem with the legendaries is that there's not much planning you can do as their effect and worth becomes evident the very second they play it, not later. People have them in their decks for a reason you know. It's not like these guys that chase the perfect meta and perfect setups all use these cards because they think it's funny or whatever. They make use of them because they are obviously great value and are hard to deal with. And they know that.
If they have a 8/8 legendary with a powerful battlecry, then you can kill it with a big game hunter. If you have it. But by then that legendary has already had a strong effect on the board. If you as a basic player without epics have managed to have an 8/8 with taunt for example, then they not only have access to big game hunter, but they also have black knight. If you play as a rogue and you want to draw back a friendly minion and play it again, then good luck getting a better effect out of that kind of play than using Jenkins, which is a legendary. Good luck playing a 4 attack minion with 12 health that can't be killed by any single minion and can't be targeted by priest shadowwords AND gives a very powerful card in your hand as a battlecry AND every turn after that, if you don't have Ysera. You don't get that kind of value out of a basic card.
Good luck taking down your opponents hero's health from 30 to 15 by playing 1 card, that also nets you a 8/8 on the field. You can't unless you have that legendary.
And you can't plan against ALL these different legendaries, or hardly any of them. Because as I said, their value becomes apparent the very second they are played, not later. The only real plan you can have against all these legendaries, is to "plan" to have a strong enough deck to win even with all this nonsense. Which boils down to RNG and luck of the draw for you, not skill. If you don't have the perfect card in your hand at the perfect time, you will lose no matter how much you planned.
Correct. And then there are the decks (basically every Hunter deck, most Zoo builds, every other aggro variant) that doesn't run them. Because they don't need them. They have a gameplan that doesn't require these. Typically speaking, Alexstraza, Ysera, Ragnaros, etc. are in slower decks. Control shells. Not every deck needs these cards and decks can win without them just fine. In fact, most the decks that do well against these cards are the cheaper-to-craft decks.
If there's just the one card in your entire deck that you can use against theirs, this may be a time to look at the overall meta and your deck. Like, Miracle Rogue adjusts itself with Earthen Rings, BGH, or the second Blade Flurry as the meta dictates it. There's avenues through or around certain cards. If you know that your opponent is most likely going to do something, you plan many turns in advance for what you think is inevitable. You keep drops back going into Turn 7 Flamestrike, you don't overextend to two-turn lethal a deck you know that has Alexstraza, you play around the mana costs for Molten Giants + Sunfury / Argus vs Handlock, etc.
If you know what they're going to do, you plan your hand around what they have. If you have just one card that you want for the match-up, I'd say there's more of a fault in the deck or your way of approaching the match-up in general.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The game just needs more cards lol..
Absolutely. In normal play mode (both casual and ranked) you will be facing very powerful cards which you won't have in months, but if that doesn't bother you in principle, you are golden. Even the basic cards you get automatically in a few hours of play are enough for "okay" quality decks (see Hydranockz' last post).
If you like the idea of playing arena, the game is fantastic since arena gives no advantage for paying. Since entry fee is high, you don't want to start there immediately. Level all heroes to 10, build a few decks, do the achievements, but don't spend any gold. After you feel like you get the hang of the game, play arena as much as your gold allows.
guide on reddit that lists the achievements etc.
Yeah arena is awesome for building your card collection. That's mostly how I got my cards. By playing some rounds of casual mode (10 gold per 3 wins) and doing the daily challanges (40-60 gold per challange). I would make enough gold to enter arena mode once per day.
Then in arena you generally get 1 card pack and some gold/dust. The gold you can keep to help pay for your next arena run the next day and the card pack gives you 5 cards. So you get at least 5 cards every day by playing the game. The better you do in arena, the more gold you get as a reward.
Then in arena you generally get 1 card pack and some gold/dust. The gold you can keep to help pay for your next arena run the next day and the card pack gives you 5 cards. So you get at least 5 cards every day by playing the game. The better you do in arena, the more gold you get as a reward.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
This really is it, ladies and gentlemen. Even if you only enter arena every 2-3 days, just do this and you'll be fine in a few months of play.
150 coins everyday sounds insane to me.
I'm really liking Rogue in arena right now. Having better experiences with it lately than mage. All that cheap removal, so good. And honestly Sap is really underrated, it gives you some huge tempo gains late game when you sap their huge taunts. Druids cry. Plus if you sap buffed cards, it can still be a card advantage. or at least a 1 for 1.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Boomerang/sap has always been my favorite card game mechanic. Too bad rogue has it in this game.. fuck rogue.
Questing Adventurer can get pretty ridiculous if it's left alive. Back it up with a couple of taunts and you're good to go. I had one up to, I think 14/14 the other day.
As for the RNG vs Proper-Planning discussion, it's definitely a case of both. Sometimes even the best hand will fail you if you get all the wrong draws at the wrong times. I've had hands where I've drawn practically nothing, and it's all over by turn 6. Other hands where I get perfect draws and wipe the floor with the other guy while remaining completely untouched myself. Others start off strong and fizzle, others start off weak and get strong for a good late-game comeback. Boils down to about 50/50 win/loss, which is how the game is balanced.
As for the PTW argument, I don't believe that's the case. It might present itself that way at first, being able to drop $100 on day one and rofl-stomp everyone at lv25, but you'll level up quickly to a point where you can no longer win solely based on what cards you have, and you'll have to start playing smart to keep going. And if you don't L2P, then you'll be stuck at a lower level than people who simply play better with fewer cards.
Questing Adventurer just saved my ass vs. a Shaman. He had two taunters up and a lot of minions behind them, and had just killed my concealed Thalnos and a concealed damaged Auctioneer with a Lightning Storm, but I still had a surviving 7/5 Questing Adventurer and a 3/1 SI:7. I had no weapon equipped. I draw my card; it's Jenkins and I'm now out of cards. I kill one of his Taunts with the SI:7, then play my entire hand; Assassin's Blade, Deadly Poison, Leeroy Jenkins, Preparation, Conceal. Kill his second taunt with the weapon and get exact lethal (18) from Jenkins + the buffed Adventurer.
Glorious.
Glorious.
Just got wrecked vs priest in arena with druid. Hearthstats shows the matchup is supposed to be in favor of druid, but I'm not sure why. High-hp minions and health buffs are ridiculously strong for the priest since druid has no hard removal or wipe. Priest can heal over small damage, has great removal for large single threats, and nova for when you try to flood the board.
I wonder if I'm drafting wrong for druid in general. I try to take 5+ 2-drop minions and about as many 3-drops. Somehow this simultaneously seems too little and too much. Versus aggro I fall behind and then have to play into a disadvantaged board, slowly falling behind. Versus passive priests, warrs etc. I can't put them in desperation mode before their big removal/drops go online, and in the later game I fall behind. Maybe I should cut down on the 3-drops at least, emphasize 4+ drops more, and just cross my fingers early game vs more aggressive decks..?
Also: I want to try to play super aggro occasionally. How should I go about it? I presume I should at least draft ~10 first cards and if I happen to get good low drops, only then go YOLO and start picking River Croc over Boulderfist Ogre? Is this a viable thing only for warlock, or could e.g. mage, pala, rogue do it?
I wonder if I'm drafting wrong for druid in general. I try to take 5+ 2-drop minions and about as many 3-drops. Somehow this simultaneously seems too little and too much. Versus aggro I fall behind and then have to play into a disadvantaged board, slowly falling behind. Versus passive priests, warrs etc. I can't put them in desperation mode before their big removal/drops go online, and in the later game I fall behind. Maybe I should cut down on the 3-drops at least, emphasize 4+ drops more, and just cross my fingers early game vs more aggressive decks..?
Also: I want to try to play super aggro occasionally. How should I go about it? I presume I should at least draft ~10 first cards and if I happen to get good low drops, only then go YOLO and start picking River Croc over Boulderfist Ogre? Is this a viable thing only for warlock, or could e.g. mage, pala, rogue do it?
I know. It's just that as I hit rank 11, I'm facing tons of shaman (I know, what?!) / handlocks / somes Zoos and it keeps working. I think it's because I don't usually have a lot of minions on the board or I angle it around Sylvanas for the real fuck you. Like I've specifically played Sylvanas with only one opposing minion on the board....opponent either suicides the minion and does something to clear Sylvanas, floods the board to reduce the chances of Sylvanas (and eats a Brawl where no matter what, the outcome is I win as the RNG is eliminated), or they go for face, ignore Sylvanas, and I Brawl anyways and use it as a fancy mind control OR I keep Sylvanas.
As for whirlwinds, yeah I know....I still have my old Warrior control deck with the armorsmiths and the whirlwinds and I find I just like the speed and quick hitting of this one. I find myself armoring up fine without it, I know I don't have them so I am planning for that, and the 2 frothings and 2 Kor'kron are just taking care of business on their own. That and all those bodies are still primarily used for anti-minion, not the face, so they'll usually kill what fancy whirlwinds / executes will. That and they'll also attract the minion removal and leave alllllll those Legendaries alone.....
Plus I still have a Cleave and 2 Slams and 2 Fiery Winaxes.
As for the Blood Knight.....
It's all about that opening turn mulligan
. Warlock? Start digging for Blood Knight. If he reveals himself to be handlock, that's okay, it's still a 3/3 body. Against miracle rogue this doesn't always win (obviously), but the added bodies force him to waste damage on the minions and lower him for the final hit. Even allows me to save Alex for myself if needed.
I dunno, like, I AGREE with everything you're saying...but it's working for me. I still have my old warrior control deck as well (2 armorsmiths, whirlwinds, 2 faceless) etc., and I'm still hopping back and forth between the two. I'm just finding this handles Zoo / Shaman / Handlock better.
Brawl is definitely getting swapped in and out as I feel, though. If I stop facing people who flood the board, I'll reduce / remove it.
Not if you factor in the gold you get from the arena-run reward. It may take longer than 1 day to build up your first 150 gold. But once you have that, you gain about 50ish on average from arena (250+ if you do really well, like 9+ wins), then 40-60 from daily challenge. So then you just need 50 more. And you get 10 coins for every 3 wins in any game mode.
If you do ok in arena, like 5-6 wins (my average is about 6 atm), then you can get over 100 gold as reward. And at that point you are making more than 150 gold per day. 100 from arena, 40ish from daily and 50-80 from simply winning games, depending on how much you play beyond the arena and challenges.
Jules Coast
Member
Can someone explain something that just happened.
I was playing against a priest. I had a minion on the board with divine shield. He used his hero ability on the minion that was shielded and it removed the divine shield. How the hell does that happen?
I was playing against a priest. I had a minion on the board with divine shield. He used his hero ability on the minion that was shielded and it removed the divine shield. How the hell does that happen?
He probably had an Auchenai Soulpriest out, making his hero power deal damage instead of heal. Or he was in Shadowform, but that has a different animation for the power.
Jules Coast
Member
Dammit you're right. Thanks for the answer.
Care to explain what spells it is inconsistent with?
Hydranockz
Member
Actually yeah, I think I might do the same seeing as I could probably keep that handy for future tournaments.
Plus, you'll have another account to play arenas on. If you just play that account occasionally, you should be able to go infinite arena easily and slowly build a collection as you go.
No its very consistent....It does exactly what it says on the card.
Dunno if someone posted it here but apparently Hearthstone is already the 12th highest grossing app in april, despite launching april 16th
http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/06/u...ighest-grossing-ipad-game-worldwide-in-april/
http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/06/u...ighest-grossing-ipad-game-worldwide-in-april/
Though I'm saving up for Naxx, I tried another Arena run. I wanted to make it quick so just went with whatever I felt like and drafted very quickly. My deck;
I got all the way to 8 wins to my surprise. Got smacked down by a Warrior with 3x Arcanite Reaper and 2x Stranglehorn Tiger, a Mage with better overall quality cards and another Mage with better late-game. I completely massacred this one Paladin though. Turn 1 Mana Wyrm + Coin + Mirror Image, turn 2 Mana Addict, and from that point on it snowballed out of control.
The spoils;
I got all the way to 8 wins to my surprise. Got smacked down by a Warrior with 3x Arcanite Reaper and 2x Stranglehorn Tiger, a Mage with better overall quality cards and another Mage with better late-game. I completely massacred this one Paladin though. Turn 1 Mana Wyrm + Coin + Mirror Image, turn 2 Mana Addict, and from that point on it snowballed out of control.
The spoils;
Got my entry fee back, a golden Scarlet Crusader to complete a set, and 25 bonus gold. The Pack;
Today was a good day. ;-)
TetraxShards
Member
Well deserved.
Blizzard, hurry up with the Android version. "HANDLE IT!"
I'm envious of that gold Scarlet Crusader.
Americanmushroom
Banned
random number generation
= meaning randomness
the term is not exclusive to card games
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
How many playable legendaries?
TetraxShards
Member
The RNGeesus, pray to him daily or all your Mad Bombers will kill your own minions.
shadowstar
Member
Good god every time I check this thread there is another person that whines about epics/legendaries or rng and is 100% sure they played everything right.
That was a lot of money burned. Very expensive viewer acquisition cost indeed.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
or calls a card broken or OP
shadowstar
Member
Or whines about Priest/Mage in constructed.
Good god every time I check this forum there is another person that thinks the "thing he likes" is perfect and is 100% sure nothing about it is imbalanced or can be improved.
This is why Arena is bullshit: Every time I go in I get matched up with people who have decks as good or better than ones in constructed. I just played a Druid who all of his good class cards plus Leeroy, meanwhile I had only one of my good class cards, no legendaries, and a bunch of half assed goldshire footman tier garbage.
When I play someone who has Leeroy and their class purples and I'm getting steady choices like "Coldlight Oracle / Goldshire Footman / Wisp" then something's fucking broken.
When I play someone who has Leeroy and their class purples and I'm getting steady choices like "Coldlight Oracle / Goldshire Footman / Wisp" then something's fucking broken.
Hydranockz
Member
No need to be so bitter.
- Status