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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]

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Is the card Mindgames useful? I tried using it a few times and it never really helped.
I can't really think of a strategy where it can come in handy.
I'm asking because I have two golden ones and I'm wondering if i should disenchant them(it's half a legendary).

Btw,does it remove the minion it chooses from the oponent's deck?

The plus side is every card it copies for you will become golden... that's a nice enough gimmick, sure is an easier way to get a golden coin than trying to assemble a completely golden deck.

What? Using a deck which only has golden cards gives you a golden coin?
 

TimeKillr

Member
What?

I have trouble understanding this sentence. Are you implying that you can only have fun when you are dominating your opponent? That's... weird. I have fun playing against decks / people that make good plays. I don't mind things going pretty evenly against an opponent that makes good plays and counter-plays, I think that that is exactly the thing that makes this game fun. Hell, I don't even mind getting smacked down by players that just make better plays than me. In the end I still witnessed good plays and learned something new. What I'm 'raging' about are, again, decks centered around non-plays like just stalling until you have lethal / just throwing everything on the board without a thought / playing a secret every turn so that the opponent needs to waste every turn playing around one / relying on getting good cards from your opponent instead of making your own deck and/or combos / etc.

Well, from what you're saying, you dislike playing against pretty much every deck in the meta except what, Ramp Druid, Miracle Rogue and Control Warrior? (hell Priest decks in the meta don't even run Mindgames or Mind Vision, too).

Ramp Druid is boring to play against - it doesn't take skill to have a turn 1 yeti, or a turn 4 Ancient of War. Miracle Rogue is also boring to play against, as you're essentially playing against someone who's playing a single player game (removal + draw as much as you can). Control Warrior is just a ton of legendaries + a ton of cheap, effective removal. That isn't fun to play against!

What I'm saying is this: you essentially seem pissed that other players are playing decks you don't like playing against, instead of trying to find a way to counter the meta and play around it, which is what is necessary in games like HS (especially since it's online - MtG also has regional metas that are also very strong, but there's a single meta in HS).

There's no point to vent over these decks, either, because most of them are stupidly rare (the only one in there I wouldn't call rare is lifecoach hunter, and even then they're slowly dying out as Hunter is phasing from the meta due to the UtH nerf).
 

Vio-Lence

Banned
They're wank because they're wank.

Like many of the mage cards, mirror images just acts to delay, rather than providing any real advantage to build upon. Meanwhile arcane missiles is just pure rng; you could get the same effect basically with a Mad bomber, but you have a decent minion at the end
I think that mage build is a rush deck that quickky runs out of steam if you can deal with the turns 1 thru 3 wyrm, apprentice, mirror opener. I think I have close to 100% win rate against it when I play control warrior. I think that mage deck was a nice counter to midrange hunter that used to dominate the meta.
 

Avinexus

Member
Is the card Mindgames useful? I tried using it a few times and it never really helped.
I can't really think of a strategy where it can come in handy.
I'm asking because I have two golden ones and I'm wondering if i should disenchant them(it's half a legendary).

Btw,does it remove the minion it chooses from the oponent's deck?
No, it's basically just a "play for fun" card in its current state.
Dust them.
No.
 

Bizazedo

Member
I don't think there really is a way to nerf zoo without going after the warlock hero power which would potentially destroy the entire class.

Sure there is. Reduce the cost of Holy Nova / Consecrate. Was Blizzard four or five mana before? Either way, even if it was at 5 it'd help a Mage a lot versus the deck (but there's other ramifications of that, so that won't happen due to the class).

How do you nerf zoo without changing the hero ability. It's such a luck deck. Reynad, the guy who made the deck, rage quit his stream last night after failing to get past rank 8 with his zoo. It's not a perfect deck at all, it's just so quick you can make the climb quicker. Watching Reynad play it you actually see how much skill is involved in placement, soulfire use, and what to trade. It is not a brainless deck.

I don't know why I perversely enjoyed that rage quit last night. I felt both bad for him and also "Well, serves you right." He's stuck on rank 8 or whatever it is and he totally blames it on stream sniping and / or people watching his stream and immediately switching to whatever deck he plays.

I'm sure he gets sniped at times, but the mirror matching thing....he created a popular deck, one someone else would've if he hadn't popularized it first, and it's very fast and efficient. Of course people are going to play it.
 

sohois

Member
Sorry those arent wank in constructed in combo with mana wyrm/knife juggler.

Which pretty much requires a perfect opening hand to get right; play a combo like that on the 4th or 5th turn and it's wasted. Whereas other low cost openings aren't wasted if you don't get them right away.
 

Masaki_

Member
Btw i'll pay money to anyone that can make me a script that replaces every instance of the words "metagame" and "meta" with "poop"
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Which pretty much requires a perfect opening hand to get right; play a combo like that on the 4th or 5th turn and it's wasted. Whereas other low cost openings aren't wasted if you don't get them right away.

That's what auctioneer is for. Let's you play all the missiles and mirror images mid-game to cycle to the water elementals/legendaries/etc that you want to be playing instead. Killing off a few creatures and postponing with taunts isn't bad either, when they have "draw a card" attached to them.

I'm starting to see auctioneer as a must-have for any non-rush/aggro deck. The tempo gain for being able to play 4 cards for free is really hard to come back from. And if they can't kill the auctioneer on their turn, you've basically won from that card alone.


What? Using a deck which only has golden cards gives you a golden coin?

Yup. They patched that in a few patches back.

The inclusion of golden cards for everything is perhaps the most interesting aspect of the PVE right now, in terms of functionality. Because how the golden PVE cards are earned right now is anyone's guess. More so than any other elements to the PVE adventure at the moment.
 

Bizazedo

Member
I'm starting to see auctioneer as a must-have for any non-rush/aggro deck. The tempo gain for being able to play 4 cards for free is really hard to come back from. And if they can't kill the auctioneer on their turn, you've basically won from that card alone.

I had it in my Warrior control deck for awhile. Took it out because I couldn't protect it, but a few times it won me game by itself, with the highlight being 5 cards in one turn. Might put it in my new Warrior control deck if I can find something to rip out.

But, for discussion reasons....

Is the Auctioneer balanced overall or should it be nerfed?
 

Vio-Lence

Banned
I think auctioneer is fine outside miracle. Its game breaking with prep, conceal, and the other low cost removal spells. It synergizes incredibly well with one class.

I much rather play azure drake for most other classes like drood, shaman, warrior, etc.
 
Alright... the wait until the timer is almost burned down every turn only to play all the cards troll is getting so hot damn old.

I know this is what they want. But really, just respect your own time more. Why do you hate yourselves, timertrolls?
 

zoukka

Member
Alright... the wait until the timer is almost burned down every turn only to play all the cards troll is getting so hot damn old.

I know this is what they want. But really, just respect your own time more. Why do you hate yourselves, timertrolls?

Why do you torture yourself with casual :)

And the more I think, the more 60 bucks for all wings starts to sound correct. HS is not a cheap game to maintain and the gold equivalent is low enough for crazy people to grind.
 

sibarraz

Banned
I fought against a priest who never summoned a minon

The first 2-3 turns he didn't put any card, the, he tried to destroy some of my minions changing his hero power to make damage instead of heal

Then, when I had a sun cleric and a 5/2 weapon, and he only had 1 of health, he used that card that put any minion from your opponent into the battlefield.

He got a novice engineer. I laughed for 2 minutes
 
I just had the most hilarious ranked match.

Had a Knife Juggler on the field.

He drops Leeroy Jenkins. Summons two Whelps on my side of the field. Thwap, thwap. Jenkins dies immediately. He concedes.

I was dying
 

Bizazedo

Member
I just had the most hilarious ranked match.

Had a Knife Juggler on the field.

He drops Leeroy Jenkins. Summons two Whelps on my side of the field. Thwap, thwap. Jenkins dies immediately. He concedes.

I was dying

I've had happen both TO me and FOR me. Both were funny.

Knife Juggler, the true turn 7 / 8 play to stop Leeroys.
 

ViviOggi

Member
I actually haven't seen a single Knife Juggler not instagib Leeroy, even with several other targets on the board. Seriously, if you can't remove the Juggler first don't even think about it.
 

Aylinato

Member
I actually haven't seen a single Knife Juggler not instagib Leeroy, even with several other targets on the board. Seriously, if you can't remove the Juggler first don't even think about it.


What else do you expect from a dude running into a room full of whelps
 

krossj

Member
After losing some interest in the game went back to it and completed some of the daily challenges I had. Just took on the arena again. Terrible draft and a terrible score and some how ended up lucking my first legendary from my pack, Leeroy Jenkins.
 

dk_

Member
After losing some interest in the game went back to it and completed some of the daily challenges I had. Just took on the arena again. Terrible draft and a terrible score and some how ended up lucking my first legendary from my pack, Leeroy Jenkins.

Best legendary.
 

scy

Member
What I'm saying is this: you essentially seem pissed that other players are playing decks you don't like playing against, instead of trying to find a way to counter the meta and play around it, which is what is necessary in games like HS (especially since it's online - MtG also has regional metas that are also very strong, but there's a single meta in HS).

This is what kind of baffles me when people post about seeing X deck a lot: This is just going to be natural. That's kind of how a competitive game in general is going to work. You'll see the same stuff pretty damn often. It's what works. People take those ideas and refine them. If that's going to send you into a rage, this may not be the kind of game for you. There will always be these super popular and effective decks to deal with.

Personally, I enjoy this so that I guess helps with my confusion. Like, if I know what the field is going to be playing, it's all the easier to figure out what deck to be using for efficient grinding. Besides that, people can ":lol mindless" to many decks but it's still pretty easy to beat players piloting a deck they have no clue about, even if it is a good deck that's relatively straightforward. Zoo may be a bit of an exception but there's still some sequencing and board positioning worth note, though most of the extra challenge here is meta-based and then the inevitable mirror.

I don't know why I perversely enjoyed that rage quit last night. I felt both bad for him and also "Well, serves you right." He's stuck on rank 8 or whatever it is and he totally blames it on stream sniping and / or people watching his stream and immediately switching to whatever deck he plays.

I'm sure he gets sniped at times, but the mirror matching thing....he created a popular deck, one someone else would've if he hadn't popularized it first, and it's very fast and efficient. Of course people are going to play it.

The fun part is he accuses EVERYONE of stream sniping him whenever he starts losing. I've played against him a few times in Legend and had people message me about how salty he's gotten (Tides too, how fitting I suppose~~~) in the process. Even some other streamers have apparently been sniping him for wins because #reynad. Still, he's a good player and knows what he's doing and talking about, he's just got an extra shitton of whine attached to him at times. At least he knew well enough to cut the stream, though.

And it still bugs me that he "created" Zoo when it was a deck that was in the meta for months before he became popular ;__; Then I still call it Zoo too so #partoftheproblem.
 

FStop7

Banned
I just had the most hilarious ranked match.

Had a Knife Juggler on the field.

He drops Leeroy Jenkins. Summons two Whelps on my side of the field. Thwap, thwap. Jenkins dies immediately. He concedes.

I was dying

I've made that mistake.


Last night I had the craziest game against a guy playing Paladin. I was playing a variation of ramp Druid. The whole game just kept swinging back and forth, turn after turn. I'd throw down a minion, he'd throw down an ideal counter, I'd throw down a counter for his counter, etc: I drop Ancient of War, he drops Aldor Peacekeeper. I drop something else, he drops Equality+Consecrate. He drops Tirion, I drop Black Knight. He tries to finish me with the Ashbringer weapon, I manage to get taunts up.

It just went on and on like this until we were both out of cards in our hands and were just playing whatever we drew. Plus our hero powers (his recruits vs. my shapeshift) were also at a stalemate. The guy top decked two Defender of Argus in a row and used them to turn his recruits into taunts. I then top decked my first Swipe (where the hell were you) and cleared some of his shit, then drew Cairne (and where were you, too), then drew my second Swipe (wtf.) I was able to use my second swipe plus my hero power to clear the taunts and kill the opponent's face w/ Cairne. I had 1 or 2 health left. The whole game was this epic struggle, I think it went on for over 30 minutes.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
What else do you expect from a dude running into a room full of whelps

They should make it so that the two whelps randomly attack enemy targets the moment they go down. Make it so that leeroy has a chance to die immediately every time. As it stands leeroy is the strongest charge minion in the game and anytime I see it go down I know my opponent has lethal. The original video was a joke so the card should be a joke too. =P
 
Interesting tidbit from Reddit about the Naxx "leak:"

So fake that they didn't even get their math right. The 3rd row across on the screenshot claims that 4+4+6+5+6 = 30.
As a side note, the official total number of new cards is indeed 30 - http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/13665269/
Seems they knew the total was supposed to be 30 so they just slapped it in there but forgot to double-check that the numbers actually add up to 30.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
This is what kind of baffles me when people post about seeing X deck a lot: This is just going to be natural.
Honestly I do understand it. The best time I ever had with card games was when my friends and I were getting into magic during 3rd edition. We didn't know god damn anything. We didn't have internet. We didn't have optimal decks. Everyone in school just put together whatever crazy deck they could and went at it. We had our own private meta consisting of only the ideas we generated. It was a sub-optimal meta but it was ours and so was the best.

But now, it is basically impossible to have a 'sub optimal' meta due to net decking. Which is fine if you're a top player and sucks shit if you're not.

So while I agree it is natural, I understand why it sucks and why a lot of people would be unhappy about it. And I don't see an answer unless you have a group of friends you play with exclusively and all agree to isolate yourselves from outside information.
 

Llyrwenne

Unconfirmed Member
Well, from what you're saying, you dislike playing against pretty much every deck in the meta except what, Ramp Druid, Miracle Rogue and Control Warrior? (hell Priest decks in the meta don't even run Mindgames or Mind Vision, too).
When you say you think I hate pretty much every deck in the current meta, do you mean that the current meta is primarily Zoolock, Handlock, ThoughtPriest, StallMage and Traphunter? Because in my experience, it really isn't. Oh yes, Zoolock and Handlock, but I think we can pretty much all agree here that Zoolock is a brain-dead deck. So let's assume that the current meta is Ramp Druid, Miracle Rogue, Control Warrior, Zoolock and Handlock. I 'hate' two out of the five decks in the 'meta', and one of those two is pretty universally seen as a not-fun deck. And again; it isn't even about the 'meta' for me or viability or strength or 'OP! OP!', the decks I listed are just no fun to play against, no more, no less. I don't mind Ramp Druid, I don't mind Control Warrior, I don't mind Miracle Rogue, I don't mind Aggro Hunter, I don't mind Aggro Paladin, I don't mind Tempo Rogue, I don't mind Token Druid, I don't mind Overload Shaman, I don't mind Control Paladin, I don't mind Burst Shaman, I don't mind Spellpower Mage, I don't mind Shadow Priest, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. I still lose to plenty of those decks, sometimes even get crushed, but they're still fun to play against because at their core, those decks are about playing the right card at the right time.

Ramp Druid is boring to play against - it doesn't take skill to have a turn 1 yeti, or a turn 4 Ancient of War. Miracle Rogue is also boring to play against, as you're essentially playing against someone who's playing a single player game (removal + draw as much as you can). Control Warrior is just a ton of legendaries + a ton of cheap, effective removal. That isn't fun to play against!
Your words, not mine. It technically doesn't take 'skill' to play a turn one Yeti, but it does require going second to get the Coin and getting both an Innervate an a Yeti in your starting hand, and sometimes you might want to do Coin + Wild Growth instead for long-term gain or keep your Innervate for something else (like the turn 4 AoW). There is a 'play' involved and a turn 1 Yeti isn't impossible to beat. Miracle Rogue is all about management; what cards do you use to deal with the opponent's threats? You want to deal with them as efficiently as possible, but at the same time want to keep certain cards in your hand for bigger threats or combo's, so again, there's definitely 'play' here. Warrior don't do shit if you don't play the cards right, even with a perfect starting hand, legendaries or not.

What I'm saying is this: you essentially seem pissed that other players are playing decks you don't like playing against, instead of trying to find a way to counter the meta and play around it, which is what is necessary in games like HS (especially since it's online - MtG also has regional metas that are also very strong, but there's a single meta in HS).
Three of the decks I listed are not prevalent in the meta and thus do not warrant constructing a deck for to specifically counter them, nor is it even possible to build a deck that counters those three specific decks and if it was that deck wouldn't be viable against much else. And again; this isn't about the meta or losing to these decks or encountering a bunch of them or saying that they're OP; all I'm saying is that they are severely annoying decks. Why you keep dragging in the 'meta' is a bit unclear to me.

There's no point to vent over these decks, either, because most of them are stupidly rare (the only one in there I wouldn't call rare is lifecoach hunter, and even then they're slowly dying out as Hunter is phasing from the meta due to the UtH nerf).
There is a point in venting over these decks: venting. I find them annoying and get frustrated by them, so I vent my frustration. That's all there is to it. I'm not complaining that they're OP, I'm not claiming that they're a big part of the meta, I'm not claiming that I encounter them all the time, I'm not calling for a nerf. I'm just venting my frustration over what I think are boring and annoying decks to play against. That's all. You bring in all this 'meta' talk ('you just hate the meta','no use in complaining because they're moving out of the meta','you just need to play around the meta','the other decks in the meta are boring as well'), not me.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Zoolock is not a braindead deck.


That's about all I have to say about that.
 
This is what kind of baffles me when people post about seeing X deck a lot: This is just going to be natural. That's kind of how a competitive game in general is going to work. You'll see the same stuff pretty damn often. It's what works. People take those ideas and refine them. If that's going to send you into a rage, this may not be the kind of game for you. There will always be these super popular and effective decks to deal with.

Personally, I enjoy this so that I guess helps with my confusion. Like, if I know what the field is going to be playing, it's all the easier to figure out what deck to be using for efficient grinding. Besides that, people can ":lol mindless" to many decks but it's still pretty easy to beat players piloting a deck they have no clue about, even if it is a good deck that's relatively straightforward. Zoo may be a bit of an exception but there's still some sequencing and board positioning worth note, though most of the extra challenge here is meta-based and then the inevitable mirror.

I think for a lot of people this is their first foray into a highly competitive 1v1 game. It brings out a lot of frustrations and personal responsibility that people who mainly play single player or team based games (LoL, CoD, etc) are not used to.
 

Rockyrock

Member
Interesting tidbit from Reddit about the Naxx "leak:"

really doesn't seem that farfetched to me.

500 gold per wing sounds reasonable.


from the comments
500 per wing from my understanding... When the next wing opens if you pay for the newest wing you get access to the old wings as well. So lets say you start with the last wing, you pay 2k and get access to them all. But if you pay 500g up front, complete plague quarter, you will probably get up to 500g discount on the next wing etc, so instead of paying 1k gold for the next wing you pay 500g if you complete everything in the first wing. If its 5k gold i wouldn't be happy, but i can still afford it without paying one cent.
 
As much as I hate playing against Zoo, I think it's important that it exists just to be a resilience test for every other deck that wants to be competitive. As strong as the warlock hero power is I think the handlock and zoo decks still play within the rules of the game, while hunter at its peak was a bit too good at everything.
 
really doesn't seem that farfetched to me.

500 gold per wing sounds reasonable.


from the comments

The thing is, the math in the picture doesn't add up. Also, the source is a Chinese gold farming site or something.

So I feel like I kinda have to throw out the whole leak instead of trying to parse it.
 

zoukka

Member
Zoolock is not a braindead deck.


That's about all I have to say about that.

It's one of the easiest decks to play, though I wouldn't say any TCG deck is truly braindead.

mx2vVtI.jpg

I don't think I've ever felt this much value by turn four in a Hearthstone match :D
 

scy

Member
Honestly I do understand it. The best time I ever had with card games was when my friends and I were getting into magic during 3rd edition. We didn't know god damn anything. We didn't have internet. We didn't have optimal decks. Everyone in school just put together whatever crazy deck they could and went at it. We had our own private meta consisting of only the ideas we generated. It was a sub-optimal meta but it was ours and so was the best.

Well, that's why I added the qualifier of competitive game after it :x I get that it's annoying in Casual too but as far as Ranked is concerned, it's kind of normal, really. Just the way I see it.

Zoolock is not a braindead deck.

That's about all I have to say about that.

Honestly, it's brain dead in the sense that you play basically whatever you draw but there's still choices in the mulligan, sequencing, positioning (which is highly relevant with DWA/Argus), and then counterplaying the opponent (and/or don't be dumb vs Brawl).

At most, I'd call it a straightforward deck as you're usually just left with a decision of "play what?" Most the thought about Zoo is frontended in construction and the mulligan. Braindead would probably at most be the "I click on dudes and click on your portrait 110% of the time" sort of decks. Which are essentially coin flip styles of play.

I think for a lot of people this is their first foray into a highly competitive 1v1 game. It brings out a lot of frustrations and personal responsibility that people who mainly play single player or team based games (LoL, CoD, etc) are not used to.

Who knows. Maybe people will get used to it but I wager there will always be the same kind of posts from here on out and I'll just need to glance over the venting posts :x

As much as I hate playing against Zoo, I think it's important that it exists just to be a resilience test for every other deck that wants to be competitive. As strong as the warlock hero power is I think the handlock and zoo decks still play within the rules of the game, while hunter at its peak was a bit too good at everything.

Basically, decks like this serve as a baseline to keep the Control decks honest. If we didn't, we'd disrespect the fuck out of aggro and have the most anti-Control Control meta known to man.

Hell, there's already issues at times of the Ranked meta being "who disrespects aggro the most?" when it comes to mirrors.
 

Bizazedo

Member
Honestly, it's brain dead in the sense that you play basically whatever you draw but there's still choices in the mulligan, sequencing, positioning (which is highly relevant with DWA/Argus), and then counterplaying the opponent (and/or don't be dumb vs Brawl).

I have yet to run into one who respected Brawl.

Actually, I lie, I ran into one, but that's because I'd played him before and wrecked his 6 minion board with a Sylvanas / Brawl combo.

****
Speaking of and separately, if so many people are playing the game, why do I keep running into names I recognize from prior matches.
 

MrDenny

Member
I just lost badly to a warlock in arena.
The warlock plays onyxia which fills the rest of his fields with 1/1 welps.
I change onyxia attack from an 8 to a 1.
Next turn he has 7 monsters and buffs them temp +3 attack each for that turn.
He wipes me out with 28 damage.
 

FStop7

Banned
Zoo is a great deck because it's viable against everything, it's forgiving of mistakes, it's not hinged on a single card and it has a very low cost to build. It's a perfect introductory deck for new players and gets them hooked on the game. It fits right in with Blizzard's business model.
 

GeoGonzo

Member
I just lost badly to a warlock in arena.
The warlock plays onyxia which fills the rest of his fields with 1/1 welps.
I change onyxia attack from an 8 to a 1.
Next turn he has 7 monsters and buffs them temp +3 attack each for that turn.
He wipes me out with 28 damage.

Huh. I'm drawing a blank here, how does a warlock buff 7 creatures with +3 attack?
 
Who knows. Maybe people will get used to it but I wager there will always be the same kind of posts from here on out and I'll just need to glance over the venting posts :x

Yeah it's hard to check this thread sometimes... Like I want to ignore the whining and focus on the rest of the conversations, but I let it get to me too easily.
 

CoolOff

Member
Double Mind-control Tech against a Shaman on turn 6 felt so, so dirty. Especially when I take his Unbound Ele and Senjin instead of the totems.

He should learn not to flood the board against Hunters I guess...
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
B-b-b-but Blizzard nerfed UTH!

Nerf again plox.
 

MrDenny

Member
Huh. I'm drawing a blank here, how does a warlock buff 7 creatures with +3 attack?
Oh I meant the shaman with the bloodlust card.
It sucks because he had like 5 monsters before he played onyxia and I used consecration to wipe them all out.
Then he goes on to play onyxia and bloodlust to deal 28 damage.
 
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