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[scy]

I think I'll try Death's Bite in my control deck. Maybe swap one or two in for Korkrons or Pyromancers.

I miss playing Control Warrior Totally something I want to mess with is this. Trying to figure out the cards to cut will be the rough part.

May not even be a Control-esque style in the end for it.

Jeez. Why does there have to be so much racist shit on Forsen's stream?

#twitchchat

kappa

"you could create the best deck in the world that's flawless, but if you can't pilot it for shit, what use is it to you?"

You typed it, don't judge me...

I mean ... isn't the implication here that the deck doesn't pilot itself? It says nothing about the builder being inherently awful but just that even the best deck in the world needs a good pilot for it.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

"you could create the best deck in the world that's flawless, but if you can't pilot it for shit, what use is it to you?"

You typed it, don't judge me...

You are probably the only person who could misinterpret it that way.

This is why I don't post in this thread. I feel like I'm losing brain cells every time I read one of your posts.

 

[slayn]

The problem is I'm not sure it cements themselves in any archetype yet. Like, currently they're poised to be really, really good against many traditional Control decks. It's hard to take the board back from a late game Priest. Introducing early-to-mid game transitions is nice, yes, but it dilutes their deck a bit; in their 30, what do you cut to get there? I think it'll shore up some of their early game woes and let them stabilize the mid-game but not sure if it'll be enough.

That said, much of the confusion at how this will go is all the unknown new neutrals. Those will be what potentially changes things immensely for Priest. Probably helping give rise to a Priest version of Lifecoach / Sunshine / whatever Hunter deck.

I don't think you just cut a couple cards to fit dark cultists in. I think you make an entirely new deck given that card that fights for more early/mid game value. But of course everything is going to be put on its head again by the other half of the cards we don't know about yet so it's just casual speculation on my part at this point.

 

[Minsc]

Made a thread for the Naxx release date in Gaming so the news isn't just buried in here.

 

[ViviOggi]

You are probably the only person who could misinterpret it that way.

This is why I don't post in this thread. I feel like I'm losing brain cells every time I read one of your posts.

 

[scy]

I don't think you just cut a couple cards to find dark cultists in. I think you make an entirely new deck given that card that fights for more early/mid game value. But of course everything is going to be put on its head again by the other half of the cards we don't know about yet so it's just casual speculation on my part at this point.

That's what I'm saying, essentially. I think a lot of people are assessing cards without thinking of what to cut and what that means (or if they even think of the act of cutting cards to begin with). Dark Cultist, or any other card, doesn't just slot itself in. Cutting things for it in current Priest designs would be rough and probably not even massively beneficial. Not to say it can't happen but the more likely case is something new entirely (/new for Priest, anyway).

Made a thread for the Naxx release date in Gaming so the news isn't just buried in here.

I eagerly await seeing this thread in a year when it releases

 

[frequency]

Naxx out July 22nd.

...no year is given though, just day and month.

Yay, finally!

I really hope it's worth playing more than once or twice.

And I'm really excited what the meta is going to look like in about 10 weeks.

 

[ViviOggi]

Of course this terrible face zookeeper's Doomguard survives a 25% Brawl

 

[MisterArrogant]

Of course this terrible face zookeeper's Doomguard survives a 25% Brawl

Believe me, I've been there.

 

[ZealousD]

#twitchchat

kappa

Not just the chat. He was playing a song that had lyrics like ”nigger nigger watermelon fried chicken nigger" (literally) and he got a sub from a dude named "niggerkiller420" and he read the message out loud anyway.

Not calling the dude a racist but he obviously finds those kinds of jokes funny.

 

[slayn]

That's what I'm saying, essentially. I think a lot of people are assessing cards without thinking of what to cut and what that means (or if they even think of the act of cutting cards to begin with). Dark Cultist, or any other card, doesn't just slot itself in. Cutting things for it in current Priest designs would be rough and probably not even massively beneficial. Not to say it can't happen but the more likely case is something new entirely (/new for Priest, anyway).

I agree. It's just that I think Dark Cultist is so powerful that the first completely new priest deck that really takes advantage of it will be the top deck in hearthstone in the way that mid range hunter was for a time.

 

[ShinNL]

This is why I don't post in this thread. I feel like I'm losing brain cells every time I read one of your posts.

It's not like you need it to go to Legendary anyway.

 

[scy]

Not just the chat. He was playing a song that had lyrics like ”nigger nigger watermelon fried chicken nigger" (literally) and he got a sub from a dude named "niggerkiller420" and he read the message out loud anyway.

Not calling the dude a racist but he obviously finds those kinds of jokes funny.

Oh.

well

kappa

It's not like you need it to go to Legendary anyway.

so how's that Legendary grind going for you

 

[frequency]

Realz, StrifeCro, and Trump are my favourites to watch because they're all clean family friendly streamers.

Forsen is unwatchable.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

It's not like you need it to go to Legendary anyway.

you've been legendary multiple times then, right?

 

[Yoshichan]

HOLY SHIT JUST READ ABOUT NAXX RELEASE DATE

JENSIKBWJKIOPBEBVVBROJWBKQOQL

 

[Vio-Lence]

Realz, StrifeCro, and Trump are my favourites to watch because they're all clean family friendly streamers.

Forsen is unwatchable.

Cancer chat and cancer dj plugin for life.

 

[zoukka]

Jeez. Why does there have to be so much racist shit on Forsen's stream?

You mean all streams...

Ah the man himself? Oh well just press unfollow.

 

[EscapingJail]

So much bickering going on in this thread lol.

I think we all can agree this game requires some level of skill. But like all ccg's the cards you have can definitely help influence your play, also the order you get your cards can influence your play.

 

[scy]

I think we all can agree this game requires some level of skill.

Reading this thread is enlightening at times.

 

[partyphone]

admirable stopped using plugdj because of all the flute beatboxing sandwiched between ameno

 

[MisterArrogant]

This will be interesting with the different class cards rolling out in different wings. There's going to be a new Flavor of the Weeks every single week.

 

[Zemm]

EVERY single warlock I face is either murloc or rush with flame imp, abusive sgt etc etc. Such a boring, brainless class.

 

[MisterArrogant]

EVERY single warlock I face is either murloc or rush with flame imp, abusive sgt etc etc. Such a boring, brainless class.

No handlocks?

 

[Yoshichan]

Lost against a shaman while waiting on the bus...

Lost the game AND missed the bus because of it.... FFFFFFFUUUUCLKKBTHGGGSR

 

[RumblingRosco]

Lost against a shaman while waiting on the bus...

Lost the game AND missed the bus because of it.... FFFFFFFUUUUCLKKBTHGGGSR

The combo wombo.

 

[Zemm]

No handlocks?

Nope, I think they have to be higher ranks. I'm rank 13 right now and literally every single warlock is aggro and 90% of hunters are as well. I actually deal OK with them because I've tailored my deck accordingly but it's so shit to play against, almost as bad as playing vs miracle rogue.

 

[zoukka]

Naxx EU launch is 23'rd.

 

[Officerrob]

Kinda surprised we are less than a week away and still have not seen all the cards.

 

[GeoGonzo]

Kinda surprised we are less than a week away and still have not seen all the cards.

I'm actually really happy about that. Maybe we'll actually get to discover some of them ourselves!

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

The advent of ancestral spirit/crusher shaman is terrible.

And lol, lost Miracle mirror on turn 7 when the other guy didn't even have an auctioneer. Bursted for exact lethal of 19. Leeroy, Shadowstep, Leeroy, Cold Blood, Coin, Sinister Strike.

He probably would've lost next turn, but there was no way to anticipate that much burst when he was only like 13 cards in.

 

[Yoshichan]

So come 22/23rd, no one needs to pay a single penny in order to start playing Naxx, right? It isn't until a week after that that the money gates are gonna be opened up?

 

[Pyros_Eien]

First wing is free yeah as long as you log in until august 22nd/23rd(or end of august not sure how they'll count the "month" after).

 

[Yoshichan]

Thank God because I don't have a single dollar left on my account :lol Too much equipment bought this month... fuck.

 

[Yoshichan]

edit: nevermind

 

[Yoshichan]

Someone please educate me. Trump says that arcane missiles has a 50% chance of killing a 3-2. How does this make any sense?

 

[Haly]

Someone please educate me. Trump says that arcane missiles has a 50% chance of killing a 3-2. How does this make any sense?

1) All three missiles hit the opponent
2) First missile hits the minion, next two to the opponent
3) First missile hits the minion, second hits the minion, third hits the opponent (Dies)
4) First missile hits the minion, second hits the opponent, third hits the minion (Dies)
5) First missile hits the opponent, next two to the minion (Dies)
6) First missile hits the opponent, second hits the opponent, third hits the minion
7) First missile hits the opponent, second hits the minion, third hits the opponent
8) All three missiles hit the minion (Dies) technically impossible because Missiles don't "overkill", but possibility exists statistically

4/8 of those end with the minion dying.

 

[Yoshichan]

1) All three missiles hit the opponent
2) First missile hits the minion, next two to the opponent
3) First missile hits the minion, second hits the minion, third hits the opponent (Dies)
4) First missile hits the minion, second hits the opponent, third hits the minion (Dies)
5) First missile hits the opponent, next two to the minion (Dies)
6) First missile hits the opponent, second hits the opponent, third hits the minion
7) First missile hits the opponent, second hits the minion, third hits the opponent
8) All three missiles hit the minion (Dies) technically impossible because Missiles don't "overkill", but possibility exists statistically

4/8 of those end with the minion dying.

Should 8) really count though?

 

[Haly]

It does, because what Arcane Missiles really is is just counting from 0-7 using binary, with 0 being the player and 1 being the minion

000
001
010
011
100
101
110
111

It so happens that according to the engine, if 111 occurs, it has the same end result as 110.

EDIT: This assumes the Missile targeting is done "all at once" instead of one at a time, checking the state of the board between missiles. It's possible that it isn't, but it wouldn't really make sense, at least, I don't think it would. It would result in the intentional fudging of probability, and you'd end up in a situation where X/1s, X/2s, X/3s all illicit different statistical behaviors from Arcane Missiles.

 

[Minsc]

Should 8) really count though?

Spells like Avenging Wrath and Arcane Missiles that select random targets assess the board upon each instance of a random target being chosen... so it is not possible for a 3/1 minion to take more than a single hit, once a missile hits it, it is no longer a candidate for a target of any remaining missiles to select between.

If Avenging Wrath is cast with three 5/1 minion on your opponent's board, if it kills all 3 minions, the other five shots have to hit the hero as there are no other targets for them. So if they only have a 2/1 and nothing else, 7 points of damage is guaranteed to hit the hero, and only 1 point at most to the minion. At least this is how I've always seen the spells play out.

 

[Officerrob]

Not sure what happened tonight, but I went on a run of playing the biggest Hearthstone douchebags. Constantly spamming emotes, so I had to squelch. Taking the entire timer to take a turn, even taking the whole time to drop turn one Leper Gnome. This happened four straight games, against four different people. It's satisfying to beat these guys, but I damn sure don't want to take 30 minutes playing what should be a 15 minute game.

 

[Slashlen]

EDIT: This assumes the Missile targeting is done "all at once" instead of one at a time. It's possible that it isn't, but it wouldn't really make sense, at least, I don't think it would. It would result in the intentional fudging of probability, and you'd end up in a situation where X/1s, X/2s, X/3s all illicit different statistical behaviors from Arcane Missiles.

It would make more sense if it were one at a time, you never see the 3rd missile wasted. What it means is that the 3 events aren't truly independent. What you end up with is:

000
001
010
011
100
101
110
110

The last two are both 110 because once 11 happens, the 3rd must be 0, but it still accounts for 25%. Basically, there are actually only 7 outcomes, but one of them has double the chance of happening.

 

[Haly]

The third missile is never wasted, this is hardcoded into the engine, but that doesn't really say anything about the underlying implementation. The only way to be certain is for a Blue to confirm it or for people to do rigorous testing.

My argument is that the target seeking algorithm looks like:

MissileSpell(int numMissiles, vector<GameObject> targets)
{
   int potentialTarget;
   bool targetFound;
   for (i = 0; i < numMissiles; i++)
   {
      while(!targetFound)
      {
         potential = getRandom(0, targets.size());
         if (targets[potential].isMinion && targets[potential].health != 0)
         {
            shootMissileAt(targets[potential]);
            targetFound = true;
         }
      }
   }
}

The alternative that Minsc suggests would be:

MissileSpell(int numMissiles, vector<GameObject> targets)
{
   for (i = 0; i < numMissiles; i++)
   {
      potential = getRandom(0, targets.size());
      shootMissileAt(targets[potential]);
      if (targets[potential].IsMinion && targets[potential].health == 0)
      {
          targets.remove(potential);    
      }
   }
}

If I was given a card like Arcane Missiles and asked to code it, I would instinctively go for the first implementation even if it's a bit wasteful, because of cases like the one YoshiChan brought up. I don't like the idea that, when faced with two targets, an X/1 and an opponent, the probability of killing the X/1 is 3/4, but with an X/2, it's 3/7, and against an X/3, it's 1/8. From a balance perspective, this is just messy.

EDIT: Disregard, second implementation is better.

 

[Special C]

I just had a demolisher do 12 damage to me and my minions in arena. 6 Turns of that mess I could just not remove due to taunts/bigger threats! I wish I could get that kind of value.

 

[Slashlen]

The third missile is never wasted, this is hardcoded into the engine, but that doesn't really say anything about the underlying implementation. The only way to be certain is for a Blue to confirm it or for people to do rigorous testing.

My argument is that the target seeking algorithm looks like:

MissileSpell(int numMissiles, vector<GameObject> targets)
{
   int potentialTarget;
   bool targetFound;
   for (i = 0; i < numMissiles; i++)
   {
      while(!targetFound)
      {
         potential = getRandom(0, targets.size());
         if (targets[potential].isMinion && targets[potential].health != 0)
         {
            shootMissileAt(targets[potential]);
            targetFound = true;
         }
      }
   }
}

The alternative that Minsc suggests would be:

MissileSpell(int numMissiles, vector<GameObject> targets)
{
   for (i = 0; i < numMissiles; i++)
   {
      potential = getRandom(0, targets.size());
      shootMissileAt(targets[potential]);
      if (targets[potential].IsMinion && targets[potential].health == 0)
      {
          targets.remove(potential);    
      }
   }
}

If I was given a card like Arcane Missiles and asked to code it, I would instinctively go for the first implementation even if it's a bit wasteful.

shootMissileAt should remove the card if it's hit zero health. This is because each missile does one damage and the system needs to take into account all effects related to doing 1 damage for each hit. It's why you don't Arcane Missile a Gurubashi Berserker. The code should look like the 2nd version.

 

[Haly]

I don't see how the first implementation precludes effects like Gurubashi Berserker.

 

[Slashlen]

I don't see how the first implementation precludes effects like Gurubashi Berserker.

The first implementation is wasteful and overly complicated because the subroutine to deal damage should be taking care of enemy removal. The 2nd one only appears somewhat complicated because you act as if you need to handle removal of a zero health minion separately. The If statement is unnecessary, and should be removed. Remove it, and you're still going to tell me the 1st implementation is better?

 

[Haly]

Alright, I see what you mean. The second implementation has the same results as the first, I just wasn't looking at things right.

Either way, Trump is right, the probability is in all likelihood 50% unless Blizzard really went off the rails. To illustrate why it is, I've drawn two decision trees for a situation where you cast Arcane Missiles against an opponent with a X/1 out on the field.

These are all the possibilities for missile hit configurations, assuming "overkill" was possible in Hearthstone.

These are the configurations if the list of targets is modified whenever one of them becomes invalid, because overkill is not allowed.

For the first coin flip, there is a 50% chance of killing the X/1 outright, so: 50%
For the second coin flip (if the first flip doesn't take) on the left tree subtree, there is another 50% of killng the X/1 outright. 50% of 50% is: 25%
For the third coin flip (if the first and second flips don't take) of the leftmost subtree, there is again a 50% chance of killing the X/1`outright, and 50% of 50% of 50% is: 12.5%

So the total probability of killing the X/1 is 87.5%, which is 7/8, exactly the same as if overkill were possible in my "naive" implementation of Arcane Missiles.

 

[Slashlen]

No problem, I just thought I was at work for a second.

 

[Ashodin]

Hafu stream <3