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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
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Mobius and pet octopus
Member
People on the forums are complaining about all zoo... I am seeing maybe 1 warlock every handful of matches. And even then there are handlocks.
This is the heaviest control meta I have seen in a long time. So many losses due to ragnaros I just had to put BGH back into my deck.
I was down to about rank 5 and then just control after control after control... I am ending the night at 8...
I haven't come across any zoo bots that I have noticed at least. But I did just beat a scummy token druid deck. TBH it is a bit disheartening to see bots in the game.
This is the heaviest control meta I have seen in a long time. So many losses due to ragnaros I just had to put BGH back into my deck.
I was down to about rank 5 and then just control after control after control... I am ending the night at 8...
I haven't come across any zoo bots that I have noticed at least. But I did just beat a scummy token druid deck. TBH it is a bit disheartening to see bots in the game.
ShinNL
Member
You guys aren't even talking about the new current meta, wise ass.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Jesus fuck the RNG is kicking me in the balls with steel toed boots.
Not sure if troll deck: Mage, played NOTHING but hero power for about 4 turns, played weird combos until he was at 7 health, then proceeded to spam secret minions (flamestriked) and then used secrets to stay alive for about 5 more turns but did nothing offensively, then killed himself with hero power...
wut.
wut.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
The turn 8 force of nature innervate innervate savage roar savage roar.
Druid good class
Druid good class
I'm always up for hating on ez mode Druid but to be fair most classes have similar dream plays. Sucks when it gets you but it's once in a lifetime.
Yes, the first day after patch it was unplayable with 15-20 second freezes every couple of minutes. Yesterday it was less severe but still very noticeable.
Officerrob
Banned
New Shaman is very fun, but gimmicky. When it goes off it can absolutely wreck somebody, but then there are times you are sitting on a hand full of half combo pieces, and you are screwed.
Priest is in a decent spot, but will really take off when their new class card comes out. I'd expect a lot of priest talk then.
Zoo will continue to get the majority of talk around here, as it should. It's one of the few consistent decks throughout the ladder, it's cheap, and it's meta proof. Also, many of the cards released have made zoo stronger, and the ones coming next week are going to as well. In addition, the influx of bots seem to be mostly zoo...
I figured the priest card would be the last one to come out and here we are
Out of all the class cards to drop the only one I have been seeing serious play is the shaman one.
I still don't know how I feel about the new warrior weapon.
Webspinner is the best card ever like I predicted as soon as it was spoiled. Can't image a hunter deck without it. The warrior weapon will fit perfectly in the new warrior decks, many of them play zero 4-drops at the moment.
Don't get your hopes up.
Hoping for a mr. Bigglesworth card.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Yep. Will provide the perfect weapon for the mid-game until the Gorehowl.
Next week is the week I've been waiting for since I mainly play Warrior and Priest.
Deaths Bite is a great card. It's basically a truesilver champion and can help clear aggro boards with the AOE. It's gonna be a card you see in the vast majority of warrior decks.
I run a "miracle" token Druid deck that cycles cards even quicker than a regular token Druid deck, and I've never pulled off that combo.
Trying to hold two savage roars and two innervates in your hand is ridiculous.
Minsc
Gold Member
Sludge Belcher is a decent counter as well, since it's going to soak up 10 damage, which leaves only 4 from a single savage roar combo, and 10 from the double one... and spending like 5 cards and your entire turn to do nothing but 10 damage isn't the best (well I guess you're also removing a 3/5, but still, SB is a great counter to the miracle roar stuff assuming for the prior 5 turns or so you didn't sit there doing nothing).
ShinNL
Member
But does your ghoul kill Yetis? I don't know think so ;o
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Third person I've reported (not through in-game but rather PM'd the staff).
If you bot against me, you will get fucked
So if you're a botter, enjoy it while it lasts. However, protip: try and avoid me for your own good.
If you bot against me, you will get fucked
So if you're a botter, enjoy it while it lasts. However, protip: try and avoid me for your own good.Third person I've reported (not through in-game but PM'd staff on the forums).
If you bot against me, you will get your ass fucked
If I'm ever against you, don't report me. I'm not a botter, I'm just not a very good player.
Only a last hit from the weapon would kill the yeti, plus I have tons of utility to handle a yeti.
Yoshi's raging really makes me want the new OT to be Hearthstone |OT2| The game plays itself!
ShinNL
Member
Ohhhh! Somehow I thought it was a Whirlwind with every hit. Well that makes it a lot more underwhelming. Instead of a board control weapon it's just yet-another-in-your-face weapon that aggro Warriors will use.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
True. It's still nice that it's there. As zoukka stated, the real value from Death's Bite is the fact that a good portion of Warrior Control decks don't run 4 drops. It feels the mid-game need for a weapon. Arcanite Reaper is there, but there are far better things to play on turn 5 (especially after Naxx) in a Warrior deck than Arcanite Reaper.
That deathrattle is just cake.
partyphone
Banned
the death rattle will proc your armor smiths and acolytes so it's still pretty good in control.
it's going to evolve the mirror match as well since you can efficiently deal with enemy armor smiths.
I created a combo shaman deck that I have been toying with. Not the best yet considering I've been sitting at rank 5 with a 50% win rate but is a lot of fun to play:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...2;636:2;335:1;7738:2;7740:1;280:2;33:1;674:1;
Current thoughts on some of the more atypical cards compared to standard shaman.
Everyone seems to think that 2 earthshock is mandatory in shaman and I heavily disagree. I find that earthshock is often a low impact card doing ~2 damage for 1 mana and I don't like having 6 1 cost spells as it tends to lead to me running out of cards very quickly. Even against naxxramas cards I haven't missed the second earthshock.
2x Reincarnate: in 30 games this has never been a dead card in my hand for more than a few turns. Either I can use it on an egg, silence a twilight drake, unsilence + heal sylvanas, or use it for some other interesting purpose. Even when I have both in hand I don't feel like my hand is weak.
Lava Burst: This deck has both a slower early game compared to more standard shaman as well has having way more burst damage than standard shaman. So I think a lava burst makes sense both for removal and killing.
2x mana tide totem: As this is more of a combo deck the card draw is really important. In addition, I've found mana tide to stick for more than 1 turn really often because I have a lot of high priority silence targets. Say on turn 7 I drop the baron and mana tide. Which does my opponent silence? Not to mention sylvanas and the eggs are also silence targets. This tends to mean that my opponent can not afford to silence the totem and has to kill it with damage.
Unbound Elementals vs Harvest Golem: I tried harvest golem for a while. Even with Baron Rivendare and 2x Reincarnate they were not better. Especially since I've added more overload to my deck than is typical (lava burst). Across 20 games with these guys I never once got extra value out of them from their deathrattles. Whereas with the 10 games with Elementals I was able to power them up with overload about 50% of the time.
Baron Rivendare: This guy has been amazing. Have I ever gotten 2x Sylvanas steals? No. Did I ever get 2x Baines (when I was trying out Cairne)? No. So why is this guy amazing? Because he sticks around for ever. It's not uncommon for me to just play this guy on turn 4 and have him still be there 5 turns later. And within those 5 turns he can either deal good damage with a flametongue or I can pull off a nerubian egg combo. I've even started keeping this guy in my starting hand against some classes so I can just play him out on turn 4. He also combos well with flametongue totem because he can get with the +2 attack and live to do it again. I think the most important to thing to learn about this guy is to not try and set up some dream combo. Just play him.
Leeroy: I had him in, took him out, put him back in again. He's won me enough games that I think I'm going to keep him in for now. The thing to learn with him is that in this deck he isn't the win condition. For every game he wins, there are two games where I just use him as removal. And that's OK, because his combo cards (rockbiter, flametongue, reincarnate) aren't dead cards without him. Aside from hex it's pretty hard for shaman to just kill a yeti or a druid of the claw and this guy gets that done.
Sylvanas: She's really not the end all omg combo card. She's just a pretty good creature like always that is slightly boosted by potential reincarnate combo. Worth noting though that I compared her performance to Cairne and Sylvanas was waaaaay better. Cairne is just too slow and for a late game reincarnation combo you don't get much more than you would from just egg + reincarnation.
In total I have 5 cards that 'activate' reincarnate: 2x egg, leeroy, sylvanas, al'akir. That seems pretty slim but in combination with the utility plays of silence/unsilence I have generally found that to be ok. I have for example played it to silence twilight drakes, silence taunted giants, unsilence sylvanas, and unsilence mana tide/flametongue totems. Definitely looking forward to trying out the later naxxramas cards though to fill that list up a bit more.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...2;636:2;335:1;7738:2;7740:1;280:2;33:1;674:1;
Current thoughts on some of the more atypical cards compared to standard shaman.
Everyone seems to think that 2 earthshock is mandatory in shaman and I heavily disagree. I find that earthshock is often a low impact card doing ~2 damage for 1 mana and I don't like having 6 1 cost spells as it tends to lead to me running out of cards very quickly. Even against naxxramas cards I haven't missed the second earthshock.
2x Reincarnate: in 30 games this has never been a dead card in my hand for more than a few turns. Either I can use it on an egg, silence a twilight drake, unsilence + heal sylvanas, or use it for some other interesting purpose. Even when I have both in hand I don't feel like my hand is weak.
Lava Burst: This deck has both a slower early game compared to more standard shaman as well has having way more burst damage than standard shaman. So I think a lava burst makes sense both for removal and killing.
2x mana tide totem: As this is more of a combo deck the card draw is really important. In addition, I've found mana tide to stick for more than 1 turn really often because I have a lot of high priority silence targets. Say on turn 7 I drop the baron and mana tide. Which does my opponent silence? Not to mention sylvanas and the eggs are also silence targets. This tends to mean that my opponent can not afford to silence the totem and has to kill it with damage.
Unbound Elementals vs Harvest Golem: I tried harvest golem for a while. Even with Baron Rivendare and 2x Reincarnate they were not better. Especially since I've added more overload to my deck than is typical (lava burst). Across 20 games with these guys I never once got extra value out of them from their deathrattles. Whereas with the 10 games with Elementals I was able to power them up with overload about 50% of the time.
Baron Rivendare: This guy has been amazing. Have I ever gotten 2x Sylvanas steals? No. Did I ever get 2x Baines (when I was trying out Cairne)? No. So why is this guy amazing? Because he sticks around for ever. It's not uncommon for me to just play this guy on turn 4 and have him still be there 5 turns later. And within those 5 turns he can either deal good damage with a flametongue or I can pull off a nerubian egg combo. I've even started keeping this guy in my starting hand against some classes so I can just play him out on turn 4. He also combos well with flametongue totem because he can get with the +2 attack and live to do it again. I think the most important to thing to learn about this guy is to not try and set up some dream combo. Just play him.
Leeroy: I had him in, took him out, put him back in again. He's won me enough games that I think I'm going to keep him in for now. The thing to learn with him is that in this deck he isn't the win condition. For every game he wins, there are two games where I just use him as removal. And that's OK, because his combo cards (rockbiter, flametongue, reincarnate) aren't dead cards without him. Aside from hex it's pretty hard for shaman to just kill a yeti or a druid of the claw and this guy gets that done.
Sylvanas: She's really not the end all omg combo card. She's just a pretty good creature like always that is slightly boosted by potential reincarnate combo. Worth noting though that I compared her performance to Cairne and Sylvanas was waaaaay better. Cairne is just too slow and for a late game reincarnation combo you don't get much more than you would from just egg + reincarnation.
In total I have 5 cards that 'activate' reincarnate: 2x egg, leeroy, sylvanas, al'akir. That seems pretty slim but in combination with the utility plays of silence/unsilence I have generally found that to be ok. I have for example played it to silence twilight drakes, silence taunted giants, unsilence sylvanas, and unsilence mana tide/flametongue totems. Definitely looking forward to trying out the later naxxramas cards though to fill that list up a bit more.
partyphone
Banned
eh. you need to have 5 specific cards for that to work, two of them being duplicates. and it's only 22 damage.
over in handlock town you have 4 unique cards that do 24 damage for less mana.
and then there's miracle rogue.
Oh and one final thing to mention about reincarnate: the revived creature will appear on the far right of your board. This is really important to think about in a lot of situations.
For example, say you have creature - flamtongue - creature - totem. You have 8 power on board and your opponent is at 10 health. You can hit for 8, reincarnate the flametongue, and then hit with the totem for the kill.
For example, say you have creature - flamtongue - creature - totem. You have 8 power on board and your opponent is at 10 health. You can hit for 8, reincarnate the flametongue, and then hit with the totem for the kill.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Hand lock almost always has the advantage over me because there's rarely a time I won't mulligan cards to face a Zoo deck. lol
I drafted reincarnate in arena yesterday and it was actually quite surprising how useful it was. Didn't really sit in my hand for that long at all. One highlight was a paladin used aldor and BoW on my Venture Co, I reincarnated it and he wasn't very happy. I mean a silence would work as well, but reincarnate has even more uses on top of it.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Usually. Because you can use it to either copy your giants or for the Leeroy combo. It's almost always useful.
Yup, Handlock would be significantly weaker on ladder without Zoo running rampant.
Cheers. It was the first handlock I saw in... weeks? So I wasn't sure.
ShinNL
Member
I think you're confused about something. Unbound + Feral Spirits is a combo. The alternative is Harvest Golem + Defender of Argus. I prefer the latter combo because I don't have to deal with overload problems and has a slightly better synergy with Eggs and unused Totems.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I'm battling them left and right... this is my 15th or so today... :/
edit: Continuation of todays progress...
Druid, 54 wins
Mage, 14 wins
Paladin, 7 wins
Sheesh you play a lot. I'm currently on a huge losing streak... the heart of cards hasn't been with me.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
I wouldn't hate on token druid too hard, I think we have it pretty rough right now. The mass taunt being played is ultra annoying to deal with, token lacks a way to efficiently handle things like death lord and sludge belcher, and even the upside from killing a death lord can dick you over.
I've never found golem + argus to be all that amazing. You get a 3/4 taunt that then takes 1 more point of damage to finish off. Or the 1 point can just be ignored because its just a 2/1. You could just as well argus an unbound elemental and have 3/5 taunt which still takes a total of 5 damage to kill. And it's rather rare for 5 damage to be easy but 4+1 damage to be hard.
I actually did play argus for a bit in this deck but in most situations where I played harvest golem an unbound would have been better. And not once in 30 games did I benefit from a double golem deathrattle. I would argue they benefit equally from argus but unbound gets a lot more value form the rest of the cards than golem does. Thus I find unbound to easily the better choice regardless of whether I play argus or not.
Handlock will always silence your follow the rules. Owl is a dead card most of the time in that deck, so its always in their pocket. Follow up with kodo or kill it if you can.
I'll give you 3 guesses whether I had kodo or means to kill it.
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