I ran into one a few days ago that seemed pretty obvious. I was playing a terrible but weird Mage deck to try some things and this Hunter was making bizarre decisions along with the usual bot tells. Eventually we were both very low, I had lethal on the board, and he could have killed me by attacking with his 1 durability eaglehorn bow, but he quickly ended his turn after attacking with minions.
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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
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I ran into one a few days ago that seemed pretty obvious. I was playing a terrible but weird Mage deck to try some things and this Hunter was making bizarre decisions along with the usual bot tells. Eventually we were both very low, I had lethal on the board, and he could have killed me by attacking with his 1 durability eaglehorn bow, but he quickly ended his turn after attacking with minions.
Letterbomb
Banned
I don't know how I'm supposed to prevent Valeera from making the ridiculous comeback that is Leeroy and double Shadowstep. I can be maintaining board control all game long, keeping my health above the 20 mark, and she can still win in one turn with it. Freaking stupid. This game is too full of one turn win scenarios like this. Lethal is too easy.
Hardly a comeback when it's the deck's entire game plan.
partyphone
Banned
play a deck that heals or play a deck that is faster. miracle rogue can only deal so much damage.
Letterbomb
Banned
I hardly think three cards out of thirty qualifies as a deck's entire game plan.
partyphone
Banned
the game plan is to draw the entire deck so you end up with those cards more often than not.
It is, when you're talking about combo.
The entire point of the archetype is to ignore the delicate balance between tempo and card advantage as much as possible. The upper bound of a viable combo, at least in Magic, is usually 3 cards, and the rest of the combo deck is dedicated to digging up these cards while stalling for time. Miracle Rogue is just one entry in a long line of instant win combos.
It does when its Miracle Rogue. That's why the auctioneers are so important in that deck. They're there to dig for Leeroy and the Shadowsteps. They need to pull almost their whole deck to get those cards.
The deck's game plan is to cycle cheap removal to reliably get to that combo, with the occasional Edwin all-in.
The Rogue isn't making a comeback when you're not in the lead.
shindoku21
Member
Crazyyy Priest mirror match with Amaz and Reyand on Deck Wars just now. What an ending.
Exactly. Miracle Rogue isn't even playing the standard board control game. All they're doing is trying to maintain YOUR board while cycling through their deck to get the cimbo. You know you are winning against miracle rogue not through health or board control, but based on whether or not the rogue is having to use their removals like eviscerate inefficiently.
Letterbomb
Banned
Auctioneer wasn't even a part of the Valeera deck I just went up against. Edwin, Defias, Agent, etc. Even had doubles of both her weapons. She was struggling for board control all game long but wasn't able to. Then out of nowhere, the three card kill.
He was building up to it the entire game. This is not "out of nowhere", anymore than Frost Bolt + Ice Lance + Ice Lance or Force + Roar is "out of nowhere".
At least half the decks in the field have access to ~15 damage in one turn through some combination of cards and 8-10 mana. You just have to prepare for it ahead of time with life gain and taunts, or kill them before those key turns, or just hope they don't draw into it at the worst time possible. You need to account for what each deck's potential "kill zone" is. For Rogue, it's often as high as 18 life unless you force them to waste their Shadowsteps early. Druid is 14, Mage is 10-18, Shaman is also 18, etc.
If your deck isn't fast, then I suggest running Loatheb so you can stop these combos when you sense they're coming and buy yourself a turn. Belcher is another really good card against Rogue.
At least half the decks in the field have access to ~15 damage in one turn through some combination of cards and 8-10 mana. You just have to prepare for it ahead of time with life gain and taunts, or kill them before those key turns, or just hope they don't draw into it at the worst time possible. You need to account for what each deck's potential "kill zone" is. For Rogue, it's often as high as 18 life unless you force them to waste their Shadowsteps early. Druid is 14, Mage is 10-18, Shaman is also 18, etc.
If your deck isn't fast, then I suggest running Loatheb so you can stop these combos when you sense they're coming and buy yourself a turn. Belcher is another really good card against Rogue.
Edwin and agent are part of standard miracle. Defias and extra weapons usually aren't. Your opponent generally can't rely on the Leeroy combo without auctioneers. So that deck probably isn't overpowered, just inconsistent.
Letterbomb
Banned
How about for Hunters?
Barring UTH + Timber shenanigans, you have Kill Command + Kill Command for 10 right there. Then some combination of Eaglehorn, Leeroy, Hero Power can go the rest of the way. That and Hunters excel at chipping down life totals from very early in the game with their Hero Power. If the Rogue was using both Assassin's Blade and Perdition's Blade for board control, then they were probably taking a lot of damage from attacking creatures. Either they really lucked into Leeroy + Shadowstep (which happens, you can't ever prevent that) or your deck is too slow.
Letterbomb
Banned
Basically, if you're under 20hp and its on or after turn 8, you should expect Leeroy. At that point in the game you need to do what you can to stay alive, such as taunts/heals, or throw down the burst to end the game quick. If the Rogue does nothing when Loatheb is plopped, then you know the combo is coming.
Letterbomb
Banned
Why is it that minions will take damage if they hit you when you have a weapon (from Misdirection) but not in any other circumstance?
partyphone
Banned
when it's your turn and you have a weapon equipped you have an attack value. you'll notice that when your turn ends your weapon gets covered up.
Letterbomb
Banned
That makes perfect sense actually... Thanks!
Professor Lich
Member
Just saw something in a video that was pretty cool. A warrior using a Spiteful Smith to get more use out of a Gorehowl. It was a lower ranked game but it was a pretty cool idea. Don't think I've ever seen it used in game though.
Also, Gotchaye, you should totally change your avatar.
Also, Gotchaye, you should totally change your avatar.
Vire
Member
Yeah Houndmaster + Snapjaw basically forces them to have sap in their hand to win. It's not impossible though if they are drawing a million cards. Hunter is kinda a bad matchup for miracle. Its not impossible though.
lawlohwhat
Banned
Just played my first bot whose name was ifarmyoulose
If that name wasn't a giveaway it played turn 1 abusive sergeant followed by a void terror on an empty board then refused to concede at 1hp and no board presence. Oh yea, golden warlock portrait too.
If all the bots are that stupid I won't mind grinding some ranks on them...
If that name wasn't a giveaway it played turn 1 abusive sergeant followed by a void terror on an empty board then refused to concede at 1hp and no board presence. Oh yea, golden warlock portrait too.
If all the bots are that stupid I won't mind grinding some ranks on them...
Letterbomb
Banned
Both my Webspinners just gave me a Captain's Parrot and a Hungry Crab in the same game. I can't think of a worse outcome lmao. Geez what a shitty day for Hearthstone.
The original rise of miracle 3 or 4 months ago was due to midrange Hunter dominance at the top of the ladder.
Miracle was a counter for lifecoach.
Dumbass should have switched to Druid mode
In all seriousness, the Zoo bot I played the other day didn't make any mistakes of that sort. Neither did the Token Druid, apart from not conceding. There are several programs out there as far as I know, maybe he just grabbed the next best free one.
It worked!
Jesus this draft. Missing is a Mind Vision and a Holy Smite. Pray I face someone with Stalagg so I can be world first with Thaddius in arena.
I would have made those plays given no choice. Dropping something on the board is better than doing nothing.
Letterbomb
Banned
I think it's definitely a good card, but I also think it's being exaggerated a bit. A smaller Yeti with text is all it is. Kill the other minions on the board before bringing this one down, and there's no problem. Spectral Knight is more of a hassle IMO.
Not sure what I want to take out for them yet, I wonder if Trump just drops the Deathlords. I know I've had some blowouts with them against non-Zoo/Druid.
I think there's a lot of excitement around Dark Cultist because it's actually statted like a 3 drop should be. Most of the 3 drops in the game are like 2 drops with better text. Like, 3 drops are barely better than 2 drops, but 4 drops are so much better than 3 drops. It's crazy. Now you have a 3 drop that can trade favorably with 2 drops and people are freaking out.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
If you have Fuegen and Stalagg in your deck, and Fuegen dies, and then you play Stalagg and faceless him, will you get two Thaddius summons, one for each Stalagg? If you have Baron down will you get four Thaddius summons?
Sounds about right. You could potentially get some pretty crazy combos. Shaman might get even crazier with Ancestral Spirit and Rebirth. You could get like 5-6 Thaddius's out, lol.
Letterbomb
Banned
I bitch on here a lot about various things, but here's something I'm excited about for once. Got my first legendary via expert pack just now!
Pyros_Eien
Member
Yeah issue is finding the 2 cards with only one copy of each, but yeah it's extremely strong in crusher if you can get them off. Question is kinda what do you cut for them, maybe the unbound elementals or something but makes your early game even weaker than it already is. Maybe you cut a fire elem and something else? The 4/7 legendary isn't half bad either, it's a pretty good vanilla mob for the cost, the 7/4 is pretty garbage though.
Beat heroics, one shot grobbulus but the others took quite a few tries and Gluth especially was dumb as hell, especially since his weapon uses the same Rivendare mechanics of stuff dying with Deathrattle means anything that had deathrattle at some point, including silenced mobs. Severely limits your options.
homeworkfilms
Member
I just had my 3/8 taunt draw Ysera for the opponent in arena on turn 3 after he had double lightning bold and rock biter to take it out. I don't even.
I think any deck where you want to take advantage of Reincarnate and Feugen/Stalagg can't even reliably be called Crusher Shaman anymore. Any Deathrattle Shaman deck that wants to take advantage of Leeroy, Sylvanas, Cairne, and Feugen/Stalagg is going to be too top heavy to include either of the elementals, I think.
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