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[Raxus]

I'll take Onyxia anyday over the 3 Hogger's I pulled.

 

[Super Nothing]

I'll take Onyxia anyday over the 3 Hogger's I pulled.

Yeah, I've had pretty good luck with my legendaries so far. The only terrible one I've pulled was Lorewalker Cho, but he helped me craft Leeroy. Onyxia might just help me put together Ragnaros.

 

[gutshot]

What do you guys do in arena when your opponent draws into a perfect curve? I feel like most of my losses are coming when I try to mulligan into a good starting hand and end up with all 5 and 6 drops. My opponent establishes early game board control and I'm just playing catch up the whole time until my inevitable demise. It's frustrating because I don't feel like I am misplaying, just getting out-curved.

 

[johnsmith]

What do you guys do in arena when your opponent draws into a perfect curve? I feel like most of my losses are coming when I try to mulligan into a good starting hand and end up with all 5 and 6 drops. My opponent establishes early game board control and I'm just playing catch up the whole time until my inevitable demise. It's frustrating because I don't feel like I am misplaying, just getting out-curved.

Draft a better curve next time? Not sure what other advice we can give you. Sometimes shitty hands happen.

 

[Tarazet]

I used Arena value to try and build a better arena deck yesterday. 2-3. That is the worst I've done in months.

I can never play Trump's decks (except the old starter ones with basic cards only), I don't know why I keep thinking that I should draft arena using a system based on his card ratings. He's also not real consistent.. he rates Ogre Magi lower than Master of Disguise for Rogue, and the superior Ancient Brewmaster only slightly higher. Realistically, Ancient Brewmaster has to be up against something pretty special for me not to take him in an arena draft. He trades 1:1 for a Yeti and survives a Sen'jin Shieldmasta.

 

[ZealousD]

I can never play Trump's decks (except the old starter ones with basic cards only), I don't know why I keep thinking that I should draft arena using a system based on his card ratings. He's also not real consistent.. he rates Ogre Magi lower than Master of Disguise for Rogue, and the superior Ancient Brewmaster only slightly higher. Realistically, Ancient Brewmaster has to be up against something pretty special for me not to take him in an arena draft. He trades 1:1 for a Yeti and survives a Sen'jin Shieldmasta.

I think the problem with Ancient Brewmaster is that his battlecry comes into play more than it does with Youthful. It's a little harder to play him on an empty board and you usually don't want to bounce something on Turn 4.

 

[Zemm]

This should be entertaining.

Why is Nadia there?

 

[johnsmith]

Why is Nadia there?

Because she's a popular streamer. She's also finished rank 40 legend, so she's a good player.



And people are saying buzzard's getting nerfed to a 5 mana 3/2, with leroy also being nerfed to 5 mana. I think they're going way overboard on these hunter nerfs if true. Enjoy your endless zoo games, qqing morons. For 5 mana it should be a 4/4 body like gadgetzan.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Because she's a popular streamer. She's also finished rank 40 legend, so she's a good player.



And people are saying buzzard's getting nerfed to a 5 mana 3/2, with leroy also being nerfed to 5 mana. I think they're going way overboard on these hunter nerfs if true. Enjoy your endless zoo games, qqing morons. For 5 mana it should be a 4/4 body like gadgetzan.

Where did you read that? 3/2 for 5 mana seems just wrong.

 

[johnsmith]

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2g2i27/why_does_my_buzzard_cost/
http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2g2ito/mana_bug/

This is really going to wreck miracle too.


Ugh, this is giving me flashbacks to all the wow nerfs. So much for their bullshit about not changing cards so much and letting new cards fix things.

 

[Zemm]

weird, the problem with buzzard is the cycling, if they made it more like mana tide it would have been OK. Leeroy nerf seems fine though.

 

[Haly]

Lol, christ. Miracle is already down on its luck, this is just cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[JesseZao]

Because she's a popular streamer. She's also finished rank 40 legend, so she's a good player.



And people are saying buzzard's getting nerfed to a 5 mana 3/2, with leroy also being nerfed to 5 mana. I think they're going way overboard on these hunter nerfs if true. Enjoy your endless zoo games, qqing morons. For 5 mana it should be a 4/4 body like gadgetzan.

Somebody posted a 5 mana 6/2 Leeroy as well.

Here come the nerfs.

 

[johnsmith]

I was only 90 wins from the golden hero too. Gonna have to try one of these buzzardless face decks to get the last wins. Or maybe run cultmaster instead.

 

[ShinNL]

You have to be really naive if you own Leeroy and don't think it's overpowered. I knew it before I had it and I confirmed it with every kill I secured with it.

And who the hell cares about miracle? Have you seen the amount of times Handlocks do the Leeroy power overwhelming faceless soulfire combo in tournaments? The card was only getting out of hand more and more.

And Hunters suddenly suck after a Buzzard nerf, well... good. The less Hunters the more chance I get to play Shaman. Bullshit hero power shouldn't have the best board control of all classes as well.

 

[johnsmith]

Hunter hero power is the 2nd worst after warrior though. Nvm, 3rd worst, paladin is pretty bad too.

 

[ShinNL]

Hunter hero power is the 2nd worst after warrior though.

Warrior's hero power is meaningless against control decks. Only cheesy decks can't handle it.

Paladin? Lol, I see where you are coming from. Paladin's hero power does exactly what a Paladin wants: stall you from hitting their face. Since you have both stalling hero powers, your decks are probably face rushy. I'm sorry, but if you only have a certain window of winning, expect some people being able to close that window.

 

[Haly]

And who the hell cares about miracle?

I do. It's a shame they killed the only true engine-based combo deck in Hearthstone. It is, for me, the most fun and creative deck in this game.

Frankly, they should bring back 2 damage Shiv if they're going to do this. Make Tempo/Token Rogue more worthwhile.

 

[NBtoaster]

I love those nerfs.

It doesn't even make hunter bad. Other classes survive without drawing a million cards on turn 5. It should also help make mid-game cards more viable like stranglethorn tiger and explosive shot.

 

[Zemm]

Rogues need a rework, Miracle being its best deck is awful. They could have done the buzzard nerf a bit better but any talk of it killing the class is nonsense, it reduces the class from ridiculous to good.

 

[johnsmith]

Hunter as a class might remain playable, but buzzard as a card is fucking unplayable now. It's kidnapper level bad with those numbers.

 

[Haly]

Rogues need a rework, Miracle being its best deck is awful.

No.

On the contrary, Miracle perfectly captures the Rogue experience of biding your time and looking for opportunities, before blowing a billion cooldowns all at once on some poor sod. Otherwise, there's nothing particularly Rogue-ish about their tempo cards, and their mechanic, Combo, doesn't actually live up to its name. It was Miracle that gave the class its identity.

 

[ShinNL]

It's as if making a tempo Rogue is impossible. Oh wait, what's this 4 mana 5/5 that I dropped after a 3 mana 4/4?

Miracle has been a lot more iffy ever since Spectral Knight and Loatheb have been added anyway. When was the last time you have been double shadowstepped Leeroy?

 

[Haly]

Playing creatures after more creatures, wow!

Many fun.

Such unique.

Regardless of how you feel about the deck, Miracle Rogue showed that Hearthstone could be about more than just curving out. Its nerf is a step backwards as far as card game design goes.

 

[ShinNL]

I'm the last person in this thread who curves out man. The difference is that my decks don't rely on a single obviously overpowered Legendary.

And I can still do Faceless Leeroy or Leeroy Blessing of Kings after the nerf. Rogue can still Shadowstep Coldblood / Eviscerate. But boy oh boy, you can't do 18 damage on turn 8,such nerfs!

 

[Haly]

That's because your decks aren't combo decks.

Aggro: Sacrifice card advantage for tempo
Control: Sacrifice tempo for card advantage
Combo: Abuse the fuck out of a 2-3 combination of cards.

But boy oh boy, you can't do 18 damage on turn 8,such nerfs!

Miracle needs it. They're doing far less damage from other sources since turns 1-4 are spent suppressing the board. They cards peak out at 5 mana cost so the longer the game goes, the less valuable their cards are. The whole point is to get a kill within that tiny window in between having assembled lethal, on turn 8, and before the game slips out of their control, on turn 10+.

 

[Yoshichan]

Gonna enjoy dusting Leeroy and tons of Buzzards.

Buzz is a common right?

 

[call_kotaku]

5 mana 3/2 seems like a really strange way to fix hunter. It's such a drastic increase, when really increasing it to 3 mana would already be a pretty sizable nerf. What does having it at 5 mana really accomplish other than basically removing the card from the game.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

But it's a 3/2 now, so good, doesn't die to hero powers, does so much damage, unstoppable. It was definitely underpriced but at 5 for that, it sounds pretty garbage. I mean the card/combo needed a nerf probably, but the class also doesn't really hold itself together without unleash combos(or the threat of it forcing the opponent to stay at 2-3cards played at the same time max). Leeroy nerf kinda affects miracle, but kinda affects every deck that used it really and rogue can still coldblood it fine. Might just need to replace a shadowstep with another coldblood instead. So instead of Leeroy+ColdlBood+2x Shadowstep for 22, you do Leeroy+2x Cold Blood+Shadowstep for 20. Big whoop.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

But it's a 3/2 now, so good, doesn't die to hero powers, does so much damage, unstoppable. It was definitely underpriced but at 5 for that, it sounds pretty garbage. I mean the card/combo needed a nerf probably, but the class also doesn't really hold itself together without unleash combos(or the threat of it forcing the opponent to stay at 2-3cards played at the same time max). Leeroy nerf kinda affects miracle, but kinda affects every deck that used it really and rogue can still coldblood it fine. Might just need to replace a shadowstep with another coldblood instead. So instead of Leeroy+ColdlBood+2x Shadowstep for 22, you do Leeroy+2x Cold Blood+Shadowstep for 20. Big whoop.

I think it is more important that rogues can't hit for 18 off 8 mana than what they can do ay ten mana.

However I think miracle will still be viable.


Edit. It really still is speculation though. I'm not putting faith in it actually happening quite yet.

 

[Haly]

That's 1 more mana for 2 less damage and you'll have to run two Cold Bloods, which is an awkward card to have in multiples for a deck that is 50% spells. Shadowstep brings a lot more to the table with cards like Earthen Ring Farseer and SI:7 Agent. Hell, I've even Shadowstepped Loatheb in the mirror. Having a spare Shadowstep adds a lot more to the deck than a spare Cold Blood. The deck is all about keeping options available in case the card draw doesn't work out.

That isn't really the point though. The key is turn 8. Currently, you can Leeroy + Shadowstep + Shadowstep for 18 on turn 8. With a few Eviscerates and minion bashing here and there, this is enough to take out most classes who don't have heals or taunts up the ass. But beyond that, Leeroy + Shadowstep is just way more versatile.

Leeroy + Shadowstep + Sap: 12 damage, goes through a single taunter
Leeroy + Shadowstep + Eviscerate: 16 damage
Leeroy + Shadowstep + Blade Flurry: Board wipe and 15-17 damage
Shiv + Leeroy + Shadowstep: 13 damage and dig for key cards
Leeroy + Shadowstep + Cold Blood + Deadly Poison: 19-21 damage with some setup

These are examples of the lines of play available on turn 8, because you don't always draw Leeroy + Shadowstep + Shadowstep. What happens with Leeroy at 5? All the above are only available to the Rogue at 10. And everyone who's played this game for a decent stretch of time should be familiar with the "8 mana to 10 mana" death sentence.

 

[Kenai]

Personally, the idea of killing a card that costs 5 mana with a single Backstab sounds pretty delicious to me. >.> Poor Hunters (maybe not really?)

 

[NBtoaster]

T
These are just examples of all the lines of play available to a Miracle Rogue on turn 8, because you don't always draw Leeroy + Shadowstep + Shadowstep. What happens with Leeroy at 5? All the above are only available to the Rogue at 10. And everyone who's played this game for a decent stretch of time should be familiar with the 8 mana to 10 mana death sentence.

It's not really a death sentence. Mind Control is seeing play today. And pyroblast was still used when freeze mage was popular.

 

[lawlohwhat]

both nerfs seem good to me.

 

[ShinNL]

How dare they balance my favorite class!

 

[Haly]

It's not really a death sentence. Mind Control is seeing play today. And pyroblast was still used when freeze mage was popular.

Took 6 months of meta shifts and card changes for Freeze Mage to come back, and it promptly died following Naxx. 8 months for Priests to become relevant again after languishing at the bottom of the ladder for the first half of 2014.

How dare they balance my favorite class!

I don't understand. They not only printed a direct Miracle counter in the form of Loatheb, but all those sturdy value creatures like Unstable Ghoul, Deathlord, Spectral Knight and Belcher slowed the game down so much that Paladins and Priests were finally playable. As far as I could tell, Miracle was balanced. It was no longer top dog, and had even matchups against all the new, slower control decks that cropped up post-Naxx.

I mean, what did you think happened after Naxx came out? Nothing? The landscape changed, and Miracle went down. Maybe it didn't hit rock bottom, but Naxx's effect was evident on both ladder and in tournaments. You could even see it here when the Miracle QQ, which was endemic between May and June, slowly petered and disappeared almost entirely. Everyone went back to complaining about Zoo, or turned their focus to the new FOTM, Hunter.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'm more leaning towards elaborate hoax or simply a mistake. 3/2 for 5 mana just doesn't make any sense. Even disregarding the stats... 5 mana buzzard's just doesn't make sense. Even 5 mana Leeroy is a bit iffy. I'll believe it if they make an official announcement.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Kind of shocking if those nerfs go through. It seems like a strange time to nerf Leeroy particularly. He hasn't been particularly problematic lately, compared to previous seasons. The game would change dramatically if they make him 5 mana.

 

[ShinNL]

Took 6 months of meta shifts and card changes for Freeze Mage to come back, and it promptly died following Naxx. 8 months for Priests to become relevant again after languishing at the bottom of the ladder for the first half of 2014.


I don't understand. They not only printed a direct Miracle counter in the form of Loatheb, but all those sturdy value creatures like Unstable Ghoul, Deathlord, Spectral Knight and Belcher slowed the game down so much that Paladins and Priests were finally playable. As far as I could tell, Miracle was balanced. It was no longer top dog, and had even matchups against all the new, slower control decks that cropped up post-Naxx.

I mean, what did you think happened after Naxx came out? Nothing? The landscape changed, and Miracle went down. Maybe it didn't hit rock bottom, but Naxx's effect was evident on both ladder and in tournaments. You could even see it here when the Miracle QQ, which was endemic between May and June, slowly petered and disappeared almost entirely. Everyone went back to complaining about Zoo, or turned their focus to the new FOTM, Hunter.

I'm with the opinion that wasn't a Miracle Rogue nerf, it's rather just a Leeroy nerf. Miracle Rogue isn't the only class that runs Leeroy. Hunter uses the welps, Shaman have a million ways, Handlocks abuse it with Shadowflame or Power Overwhelming. That 1 extra mana will make it not so crazy anymore, but I personally will still use the card. But it will reduce those (almost) OTKs. I don't see how that wouldn't make the game better and I don't see why I should be against this nerf.

 

[Anbokr]

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2g2i27/why_does_my_buzzard_cost/
http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2g2ito/mana_bug/

This is really going to wreck miracle too.


Ugh, this is giving me flashbacks to all the wow nerfs. So much for their bullshit about not changing cards so much and letting new cards fix things.

there is a god

Yeah the leeroy nerf isn't targeted at miracle imo (though it will affect it obv), leeroy is just stupidly imbalanced, a 6 damage charge for 4 mana? There's pretty much nothing as valuable outside of class legendaries.

And no one should be shocked at the hunter nerf, when for weeks the ladder is literally 60% hunter (and people that have gotten to legendary have the stats to back it up), the game loses it's appeal very quickly. Unfortunately, hunter being OP isn't like miracle or control warrior being OP (just an example) as these other decks require a lot of epics/legendaries, so even if they were/are/become fotm, the ladder doesn't suddenly become 60% dust heavy decks overnight.

 

[MisterArrogant]

They sound like fair changes to me. Long overdue.

 

[Anbokr]

Haly aren't you sitting on like 3 leeroys or something, shouldn't you be happy that you are getting a free 4800 dust lol?

 

[MisterArrogant]

Haly aren't you sitting on like 3 leeroys or something, shouldn't you be happy that you are getting a free 4800 dust lol?

I have 3 Rags. Wish they would nerf him.

 

[Haunted]

I like these nerfs.

Leeroy is still strong though. Pretty sure people won't disenchant him any time soon like what happened to Tinkmasters and Pagles.

 

[Won]

The matchup numbers Blizzard sees must be pretty bad if they pull the emergency brakes like that.

 

[AntiFacebook]

I'll take Onyxia anyday over the 3 Hogger's I pulled.

Huh? Hogger is way better than onyxia...

 

[Leezard]

Huh? Hogger is way better than onyxia...

After 3 hoggers, I'm sure he wants something else.

I've gotten 4 King Krush, so I was happy getting a Hogger and Illidan.

Spoiler

Though Krush is probably worse than those two.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Buzzard should be a 3/3 at least if they're bumping it to five mana.

 

[Haunted]

Buzzard should be a 3/3 at least if they're bumping it to five mana.

Now that I agree with. 5 mana 3/2 would make Buzzard the worst 5 drop in the game, stats-wise.

 

[Raxus]

Besides 5 mana Leeroy I really doubt they would make such a significant change to buzzard. Last time they did that was UTH way back when. Since then they have done slight nerfs on cards to cull their effectiveness.