partyphone
Banned
thalnos/frostbolt/ice lance/ice lance is 14 damage for 7 mana.
make thalnos a 1/0!
make thalnos a 1/0!
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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Does the inclusion of frothing berserker and kor'kron elite to what otherwise is the typical control warrior deck change much? I thought I was facing some type of aggro deck, but then my opponent dropped a Baron Geddon and started playing shield slams and stuff. He later played Rag as well.
I don't see what's so hilarious. Miracle, which is finally in a good spot, gets hit the hardest by a Leeroy nerf, while very few Zoo and Hunter (the main problem right now) lists run the card at all. Handlock loses its common finisher but will probably be alright still. In my book that's bad for variety.
But yeah, I find it hard to be surprised about anything Blizzard does nowadays.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Miracle builds being played right now rely on leeroy as one of their win conditions. But there have been and are miracle builds that don't rely on leeroy as much and builds that use other tools like mana addict and malygos to cause massive burst damage. The cycle-ability and tempo gains from auctioneer alone are strong enough to justify use.
You're focusing on a single version of miracle, when in the past miracle didn't even use leeroy at all. But if you want to talk about straight up comparison of shadowstepping arcane golem and leeroy, you better consider the mana cost difference as well.
Sure shadowstep 2x on arcane golem only deals 12 damage, but it also does that at only 6 cost, leaving 2 mana for other things like cold blood x2, enabling even more damage for the same mana cost.
Miracle also has most of the burst capability that normal rogues use, plus conceal.
I think the loss of just one of their strong combos, one that is hardly guaranteed by turn 8 anyway, is not the death of the deck.
frothing berserker is just a good 3 drop. Before naxx warrior had a lot of flex slots without sludge belcher and death's bite.
Korkron's are an anti-zoo include. And might be good against deathrattle priest as well. The idea being that you kill a voidwalker and then the zoo player still has to send another creature in. They also both served as early pressure against miracle rogue. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to play either anymore though except in a meta flooded with nothing but zoo.
Korkron's are an anti-zoo include. And might be good against deathrattle priest as well. The idea being that you kill a voidwalker and then the zoo player still has to send another creature in. They also both served as early pressure against miracle rogue. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to play either anymore though except in a meta flooded with nothing but zoo.
Holy shit, might actually get me back into this game beyond dailies.
depths20XX
Member
Yeah, the buzzard nerf is just baffling.
I don't even play hunter and that's just wrong.
I don't even play hunter and that's just wrong.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSS!!!!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAS once again! Stay mad @everyone who disagrees. If thats the only way these classes can be viable then fix them another way. Such bullshit. Glad they agree and are taking steps to cull this shit.
Edit: Also, eat Starfall, Holy Nova, Wild Pyro antics and more Buzzard. RIP in Piss.
I'm running a custom made Midrange/Enrage Warrior and it really throws people off. Those 7/2 Amani Berserkers really do the trick.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I just don't agree with the leeroy change even though I think having less to worry about around turn 8 vs miracle rogue is nice.
The buzzard change is just hands down... I don't even.
The buzzard change is just hands down... I don't even.
The cost is appropriate for the draw power it has.
What draw power? At best I might get 2 beasts down before it dies. And that is going to be on turn 9 or later.
depths20XX
Member
Not really. Class cards should be better than universal cards, or at least offer a benefit to that class. Now it can't really be combo'd in a single turn and it's just completely a non threat at 2 health. Don't really understand anyone who is happy about this change although I do think the card needed a change this seems way too extreme.
It puts it on par with Auctioneer's cost, and its a much more powerful effect than Auctioneer's.
People are happy because UTH + Buzzard was just completely obnoxious.
depths20XX
Member
You're missing the fact that it's a 3/2 here.
No
No other class has the power to draw 5 cards with 1 play
I agree that 3/2 for 5 is excessive but i see why they did it
In other news i just had a Priest play Rivendare when he had 2 Deathlords on the field
I killed both the next turn and they summoned:
1 Earth Elemental
Stallag
Fergun
Kel
This was turn 5 so he just GG'd out
How did he not see how terrible playing the Baron was there?
I agree that Buzzard+Unleash was overpowered. But they nerfed the wrong card. Now Buzzard is completely unusable.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Erm, northshire cleric + circle of healing 1 mana draw cards equal to the amount of injured minions. Toss in a wild pyro and that number of minions equals the number of minions on the board.
Sprint draws 4 cards.
Arcane intellect draws 2 cards for much less.
Lay on hands draws 3 cards.
If you were giving hunter's 5 cards from UTH, that is your damn fault. It is like crying about acolyte drawing 3 cards because you hit it with 3 different 1 attack minions.
Assuming buzzard needed to change, 3/2 is what it should be at if it costed 4 mana. Not 5. That difference is huge.
edit:
BTW i wasn't a huge fan of playing hunters, but I actually did like playing against hunters.
Because the effect's really unsafe for the game. Hunters regularly had a billion cards in hand at once- and that makes it really hard to balance them when it comes to things like card advantage and such.
Yes, they're pricing this card out of the metagame intentionally. There are good reasons to do so.
It is better than universal draw cards. It's the only card that lets you draw while strengthening your board (unlike Acolyte and Cult Master) and Gadgetzan usually requires inefficient spell use (like shivving face) to get the most out of it. And it's still possible to combo on a single turn, just later.
It's still possible to draw many cards with it. Even a 3 hound unleash on turn 8 is great catch up ability. Plus you can still draw 4 or 5 cards with creeper, timber wolf, webspinner etc.
So it's official huh? This is completely fucking retarded, par for the course for blizzard. And the day of the blizzcon qualifiers. Super super shitty of them.
I welcome our new warlock overlords. Ladder will be nothing but zoo and handlock.
Edit: oops. Doesn't take effect for 11 days.
I can get my gold hunter before then!
I welcome our new warlock overlords. Ladder will be nothing but zoo and handlock.
Edit: oops. Doesn't take effect for 11 days.
I can get my gold hunter before then!
Minsc
Gold Member
It's not quite the same, you actually need 4 cards to get the pyro combo going. Cleric + CoH + Pyro + another (cheap) spell. The pyro doesn't work off a CoH because a CoH triggers before the 1 damage, not after it.
Agree 100%. And anyone who says the two 1/1 whelps are worth stat points are playing the card wrong. The 1/1 whelps help you, not hurt you. Anyone running Leeroy has a plan for them, whether it's Leeroy + MCT for a 50% shot at stealing one of their two best creatures, or Leeroy plus berserker + swing 2 of the 4/2 warrior naxx weapon, or Leeroy + Shadowflame for 6 damage + a 6-damage flamestrike and so on.
partyphone
Banned
buzzard/snake trap is slightly more viable now, I guess.
I really wanted to see a buzzard nerf but a 4 mana 3/2 seems like it would be more appropriate.
I think the leeroy nerf hurts handlock more than anything. miracle has already had to adapt so much because of sludge belcher and lotheb that it was often winning games without leeroy even coming out.
I really wanted to see a buzzard nerf but a 4 mana 3/2 seems like it would be more appropriate.
I think the leeroy nerf hurts handlock more than anything. miracle has already had to adapt so much because of sludge belcher and lotheb that it was often winning games without leeroy even coming out.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It pretty much is the same. 2 cards cycle off the more cards on the board. They just have to be injured. You're right about wild pyro, but still can get some large card draw he denied is possible.
Come on it's not the same at all, you are healing enemy minions by 4 while UTH gives you charging doggies.
partyphone
Banned
it's easier to play around and can backfire in hilarious ways. also at no point has the ladder been 60% priests.
i think they should put UTH back to 2 mana, honestly.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Talking about the card draw... and you'd of course kill off any threatening opponent minions anyway. It is as much a tempo swing as UTH. Maybe you haven't seen a priest clear board then drop a blademaster + cleric, and healing everything back up. It is as devastating as UTH/buzzard for sure.
If you are playing four 1 drop minions on turn 8, you've likely already lost. No amount of card draw is going to save you.
Again, Blizzard nerfed the wrong card. I don't think anyone had a problem with Buzzard when you played it and a Croc on turn 4. It was only when it was paired with Unleash that the card draw got silly. So why not just change the hounds to non-beasts? Unleash would still be a good AoE removal card and Buzzard would still have some usefulness in allowing a Hunter to cycle one or two beasts from their hand but neither are particularly overpowered.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Qualifiers already off to a good start....
For this to work you need to have a clear board advantage which every deck in the game is built to prevent from happening because that's what HS is about, while a Hunter solely exploits the enemy's strong board position. It's a completely different situation.
I've played tons of Priest since Amaz made it competitive.
Cult Master instead of a Buzzard can draw them cards also, but it costs 4 mana which is better than the buzzard cost pre nerf, and as pointed out by reddit:
Such a seemingly small thing, but it makes a TON of difference. Thats the thing with people trying to make these wild comparisons that use 3 class cards and a neutral and compare it. A priest might get a perfect lineup of Circle priest Pyro and a Holy smite with a minion on your side that wont DIE to the holy smite + pyro damage (meaning they have to have more than 3 HP) but none of it is nearly as convenient as what Hunter has now. And that priest isn't likely to Hunters mark your minions after drawing all that crap then rush you down with charge minions either...
These slight variables make a huge difference and everyone knows it.... otherwise no one would be complaining. They would just run a couple of Cult Masters and continue with the nonsense.
Good riddance.
Such a seemingly small thing, but it makes a TON of difference. Thats the thing with people trying to make these wild comparisons that use 3 class cards and a neutral and compare it. A priest might get a perfect lineup of Circle priest Pyro and a Holy smite with a minion on your side that wont DIE to the holy smite + pyro damage (meaning they have to have more than 3 HP) but none of it is nearly as convenient as what Hunter has now. And that priest isn't likely to Hunters mark your minions after drawing all that crap then rush you down with charge minions either...
These slight variables make a huge difference and everyone knows it.... otherwise no one would be complaining. They would just run a couple of Cult Masters and continue with the nonsense.
Good riddance.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
At least one good thing will come from it... less hunters on the ladder.
The leeroy change I feel is justified. I'm not in favor of it just because it nerfs any particular deck but because the card was simply too good.
The buzzard change though is... odd. I mean I agree with nerfing it but why in that way? My preferred answer would have been to change it to, "at the end of your turn, draw a card for every friendly beast that died." Now the card just seems useless. If you really want it at 5 mana at least make it a 3/4 or 4/3.
The buzzard change though is... odd. I mean I agree with nerfing it but why in that way? My preferred answer would have been to change it to, "at the end of your turn, draw a card for every friendly beast that died." Now the card just seems useless. If you really want it at 5 mana at least make it a 3/4 or 4/3.
I like the buzzard change.
People usually complained about hunter for 3 reasons: unleash + buzzard, hunter's mark, and Savannah Highmane.
They chose to nerf the unleash + buzzard combo and I think it was the best route. The problem with playing a hunter (imo) has always been, how do you counter the unleash combo? You don't have board control. When you don't have board control, you lose anyway and it makes removing secrets (in a decent manner) insanely difficult. Now if you do have board control, you give the hunter a shit ton of cards AND a free board clear. It was one of those situations where it always felt like "fucked if you do, fucked if you don't" (unless you were playing miracle of course).
Now the unleash + buzzard combo has a lot more counter-play opportunities (as it should), and it's value is now better reflected with the new cost. Look at cards like Sprint and Lay on Hands, mass card draw + some more extra value in the form of minions, healing, or whatever have you needs to be relatively expensive lest it make aggro/mid-range decks far too strong (which is what happened with hunter).
And like others have pointed out on various forums, it's not like hunter is suddenly as card starved as control paladin; they still have flare, tracking, and that webspinner value.
Also, I just opened a King Krush and King Muukla in a 400g pack dump. What a great day for free dust
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People usually complained about hunter for 3 reasons: unleash + buzzard, hunter's mark, and Savannah Highmane.
They chose to nerf the unleash + buzzard combo and I think it was the best route. The problem with playing a hunter (imo) has always been, how do you counter the unleash combo? You don't have board control. When you don't have board control, you lose anyway and it makes removing secrets (in a decent manner) insanely difficult. Now if you do have board control, you give the hunter a shit ton of cards AND a free board clear. It was one of those situations where it always felt like "fucked if you do, fucked if you don't" (unless you were playing miracle of course).
Now the unleash + buzzard combo has a lot more counter-play opportunities (as it should), and it's value is now better reflected with the new cost. Look at cards like Sprint and Lay on Hands, mass card draw + some more extra value in the form of minions, healing, or whatever have you needs to be relatively expensive lest it make aggro/mid-range decks far too strong (which is what happened with hunter).
And like others have pointed out on various forums, it's not like hunter is suddenly as card starved as control paladin; they still have flare, tracking, and that webspinner value.
Also, I just opened a King Krush and King Muukla in a 400g pack dump. What a great day for free dust
.KingKiller
Neo Member
I play hunter, this does not bother me. I only run one buzzard. That Leroy nerf is bullshit though.
Wow. Didn't think they'd actually be real. Both changes are stupid imo(Buzzard way more so, mind).
Miracle will most likely swap to the arcane golem variety, and Buzzard just seems unusable in it's new state.
Typical though. I crafted Leeroy last week. At least I have the option to disenchant for full dust though I suppose. xD
Miracle will most likely swap to the arcane golem variety, and Buzzard just seems unusable in it's new state.
Typical though. I crafted Leeroy last week. At least I have the option to disenchant for full dust though I suppose. xD
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