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[slayn]

Commonly played GvG cards in constructed decks:
38 cards across all classes out of 123 cards. As such, I think hoping for 1/4 to 1/3 of all cards being reasonably playable is a good goal.

That isn't really a sustainable thing though because as the card pool gets larger it becomes harder and harder for 1/4 of a 130 card expansion to meet that.

If expansions continue to be dumps of 130 cards with a theme I would expect the percentage of constructed playable cards per expansion to decrease with every expansion until the eventual day when blizzard realizes they have to separate out blocks and make cards obsolete (maybe then we can finally say goodbye to big game hunter).

 

[JesseZao]

That isn't really a sustainable thing though because as the card pool gets larger it becomes harder and harder for 1/4 of a 130 card expansion to meet that.

If expansions continue to be dumps of 130 cards with a theme I would expect the percentage of constructed playable cards per expansion to decrease with every expansion until the eventual day when blizzard realizes they have to separate out blocks and make cards obsolete (maybe then we can finally say goodbye to big game hunter).

Well, the goal is to offer a wider variety of decks that work in various metas. So, each card will see less play individually, but overall, each expansion adds a similarly sized chunk of played cards.

 

[Schryver]

Some of those are kinda stretching it like Toshley.

Dog plays him sometimes!

 

[inky]

I'm more annoyed that they don't bother to go back and retool some cards that are completely forgotten. I'm talking about cards that have been in the game from the beginning or the first expansions, not like GvG cards that got left behind by shifting metas.

 

[Haly]

I'm more annoyed that they don't bother to go back and retool some cards that are completely forgotten. I'm talking about cards that have been in the game from the beginning or the first expansions, not like GvG cards that got left behind by shifting metas.

Hey guys can I see play yet? Please? N-no? Okay...

*distant sounds of sobbing*

 

[ZealousD]

Kidnapper is legit in the latest Brawl, lol.

 

[Papercuts]

Kidnapper is pretty good in this brawl atleast.

even if he's a failure as an actual kidnapper.

 

[Haunted]

I have enough gold for 25 packs and enough dust for one legendary or 4 epics.

It's nothing compared to some of the crazy bastards in here who have saved up enough dust for everything, but I'm going to have fun deciding what to craft.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm more annoyed that they don't bother to go back and retool some cards that are completely forgotten. I'm talking about cards that have been in the game from the beginning or the first expansions, not like GvG cards that got left behind by shifting metas.

Blizzard doesn't want to buff cards. There was this whole dialogue between Kripp (proponent of buffing old cards) and Ben Brode over it.

The gist of Blizzard's response was:

*Some cards are bad because they serve as teaching tool for new players to figure out which cards are good vs which cards are bad. It's an acquired skill to figure this out and a player journey as they say. Eye for an Eye was given as an example.

*Some cards are bad now but may become good later one with new cards. Stuff like Wisp being playable because of Hobgoblin (or other 1 attack minions).

*Buffing old cards is confusing for new players who don't play every day and may come back after a while. Like they stated that casual players would come back to the game after a long break and realize a lot of their cards are changed which is frustrating for them.

*They don't want to constantly buff cards because buffing cards changes up the meta and thus there would never be a phase where players are refining/perfecting their deck play. That period is important in game development for Blizzard.

*Buffing cards still takes a lot of work because even though you don't need to come up with new assets you still have to playtest them in numerous games in numerous situations.

*Some cards that are perceived as bad may in fact be good or vice versa. Perception of cards change over time as well.

*They would just rather make new cards than buff old cards.

*They stated that not every card can be good and there will always be bad cards because of power level creep (like Yeti used to be good, now it's mediocre because of Shredder). Though Kripp already admitted to this numerous times so I don't why this reason is always brought up.


Of course this doesn't cover the Tavern Brawl or Arena reasoning because at that time Tavern Brawl wasn't announced yet.

 

[Xanathus]

I'm more annoyed that they don't bother to go back and retool some cards that are completely forgotten. I'm talking about cards that have been in the game from the beginning or the first expansions, not like GvG cards that got left behind by shifting metas.

Why bother fixing worthless older cards when you can just put out even more worthless cards to pad out their worthless packs.

 

[Rapstah]

Tavern Brawl is the ultimate way to make bad cards good again for a week. Just have one brawl a year where the worst cards in the game turn into okay cards because of the rules you have picked (not because you picked the ruleset "Kidnapper gets +10/+10!!!").

 

[inky]

I get most of that, but I'm really not talking about doing a pass on every old card. I understand the idea of having bad, weird and very base cards for beginners or some that will naturally integrate with new mechanics. I also understand that they want some sort of power creep, even for financial reasons.

A once in a year/6 months retooling of a small selection of cards that are never used might be yet another way to shift the meta when there's no new content around, or even just help a strategy that is not quite there yet. It is true that Brawl opens up more possibilities, and I'm glad that is happening as an aside, but just the same, some old cards could even be used as vehicles to bring small changes from within the game.

Why bother fixing worthless older cards when you can just put out even more worthless cards to pad out their worthless packs.

=(

 

[Dahbomb]

I get most of that, but I'm really not talking about doing a pass on every old card. I understand the idea of having bad, weird and very base cards for beginners or some that will naturally integrate with new mechanics. I also understand that they want some sort of power creep, even for financial reasons.

A once in a year/6 months retooling of a small selection of cards that are never used might be yet another way to shift the meta when there's no new content around, or even just help a strategy that is not quite there yet. It is true that Brawl opens up more possibilities, and I'm glad that is happening as an aside, but just the same, some old cards could even be used as vehicles to bring small changes from within the game.

Well I definitely agree with you, I am just giving the Blizzard response.

 

[Majine]

I just want a brawl where you pick your opponents deck.

So every game is a "Oh god, these cards suck, but I guess this one is the least horrible".

 

[Dahbomb]

I just want a brawl where you pick your opponents deck.

So every game is a "Oh god, these cards suck, but I guess this one is the least horrible".

Oh my god that would be fucking hilarious!!!!

So far this current Brawl and the Summoner Brawl were my two favorite Brawls by quite a margin. I had 50 wins on the Summon Brawl and right now over 20 on the current one.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

I just want a brawl where you pick your opponents deck.

So every game is a "Oh god, these cards suck, but I guess this one is the least horrible".

Would something like this be technically feasible? Seems like it might be tough to do.

 

[br3wnor]

Commonly played GvG cards in constructed decks:

Clockwork Gnome
Cogmaster
Annoy O Tron
Explosive Sheep
Mechwarper
Micro Machine
Spider Tank
Tinkertown Technician
Mechanical Yeti
Piloted Shredder
Antique Healbot
Kezan Mystic
Fel Reaver
Piloted Sky Golem
Dr. Boom
Toshley
Glaivezooka
Flamecannon
Snowchugger
Unstable Portal
Goblin Blastmage
Echo of Medivh
Muster for Battle
Shielded Minibot
Coghammer
Quartermaster
Velen's Chosen
Vuljin
Lightbomb
Tinker's oil
Crackle
Whirling Zap o matic
Powermace
Darkbomb
Implosion
Mistress of pain
Malganis
Shieldmaiden

38 cards across all classes out of 123 cards. As such, I think hoping for 1/4 to 1/3 of all cards being reasonably playable is a good goal.

Exactly. We've been showed what, 15 cards from this expansion so far? People need to calm down a bit before complaining that nothing shown is better than Dr. Boom yet, and that all the cards suck. Give it time people.

 

[Dahbomb]

Would something like this be technically feasible? Seems like it might be tough to do.

Why would it be hard?

You basically queue up with a deck.. start of the game both the decks are swapped (or destroyed then recreated/mirrored whatever is easier to code).


It's actually a GENIUS idea! Majordormo TOP TIER pick!

Speaking of which... Majordormo is actually a GOOD card in this Brawl. So many Priests running Mind Games that they can get Majordormo from your deck and then you can just demolish them with it LMAO!

 

[Xanathus]

I just want a brawl where you pick your opponents deck.

So every game is a "Oh god, these cards suck, but I guess this one is the least horrible".

There was a thread on r/hearthstone about that several months ago, you can make Mage and Priest decks where it's literally impossible to kill your opponent.

 

[Majine]

There was a thread on r/hearthstone about that several months ago, you can make Mage and Priest decks where it's literally impossible to kill your opponent.

Ah crap.

 

[Dahbomb]

There was a thread on r/hearthstone about that several months ago, you can make Mage and Priest decks where it's literally impossible to kill your opponent.

I can see a Priest deck where that is possible but a Mage deck? You can at least use hero power to damage the opponent.

I think you need some restrictions where you need a certain number of minions in there otherwise every game will go into fatigue.


Another idea would it be that half of the cards are swapped (randomly). So you can't just fill up your deck with no damage cards.

 

[Xanathus]

I can see a Priest deck where that is possible but a Mage deck? You can at least use hero power to damage the opponent.

Fill it with secrets that aren't Mirror Entity, and freeze spells.

 

[dave is ok]

I hate the stupid shield watermark on the new cards.

 

[Dahbomb]

Fill it with secrets that aren't Mirror Entity, and freeze spells.

Yeah but you can at least damage your opponent with pings (assuming your opponent isn't playing a healing class).

 

[Xanathus]

Yeah but you can at least damage your opponent with pings (assuming your opponent isn't playing a healing class).

Every class has a hero power that counters that except for Warlock.

 

[Miracle]

I saw this posted in the Hearstone forum.

Poor rogues.

 

[Dahbomb]

I saw this posted in the Hearstone forum.

Poor rogues.

Poisoned Daggers is good though.

 

[Miracle]

Poisoned Daggers is good though.

I think it was meant that Poisoned Daggers makes a card like Poisoned Blade pretty useless.

I also like Poisoned Daggers.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think it was meant that Poisoned Daggers makes a card like Poisoned Blade pretty useless.

I also like Poisoned Daggers.

1) I wish Blizzard would come up with better names for this. Deadly Poison, Poisoned Daggers, Poisoned Blade... it's getting kinda ridicuous.

2) Do we know if Poisoned Daggers don't buff up Poisoned Blade by two?

 

[Haly]

Both cards interfere with each other, that's why it's silly.

Preparation remains our sole well designed epic.

 

[Super Nothing]

1) I wish Blizzard would come up with better names for this. Deadly Poison, Poisoned Daggers, Poisoned Blade... it's getting kinda ridicuous.

2) Do we know if Poisoned Daggers don't buff up Poisoned Blade by two?

Poisoned Daggers should buff up Poisoned Blade, but why bother with Poisoned Blade at all? You can get a 2 mana 2/2 dagger whenever you want, what's the point of buffing a 1/3 to a 3/3 at the expense of a card and 4 mana? Poisoned Blade already had questionable usage since Assassin's Blade exists for only one more mana, now we have a 2/2 that you can equip every turn. There's just no room for it.

 

[Miracle]

1) I wish Blizzard would come up with better names for this. Deadly Poison, Poisoned Daggers, Poisoned Blade... it's getting kinda ridicuous.

2) Do we know if Poisoned Daggers don't buff up Poisoned Blade by two?

1. Don't forget Poison Seeds!

2. I'm curious about that too. That would be pretty cool if it did but it is kinda slow to set up. Playing Daggers on turn 4, than having to coin out on turn 5 for Justicar. And then turn 6 to finally be able to use the hero power.

I hope Blizzard is finding a way to slow down the Meta with all these inspire cards with more emphasis on hero powering. I imagine nerfs to face Hunter and Paladin decks are coming at the time of this expansion?

 

[G.ZZZ]

Poisoned blade is so absurdly bad though. Not sure how they costed it 4. At 3 it would be borderline playable, and at 2 good. And it cost FOUR.

 

[Professor Lich]

If Kidnapper actually stole the opponent's minion, would it actually be used then?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I doubt justicar sees much play in rogue in the first place. The 4 mana weapon though, I think is the type of card that can surprise people. It is true rogues don't have an excellent track record in the epic department, but that has never held them back... plus they have preparation.

 

[Haly]

It's evident no one on the design team has any idea how Rogue works, so they're too scared to make any good cards for Rogue in case someone breaks it open.

Out of GvG, what was the best Rogue card and the only one to see play? Oil, which was a common.

BRD? Nothing.

Naxxramas? Loatheb, which they made to kill Rogue.

If Kidnapper actually stole the opponent's minion, would it actually be used then?

Yes, but it would also be OP since it's "silence and kill a guy and draw a card". Even if it was 0/1 that is an extremely powerful effect.

 

[Ashodin]

and it's epic to boot

 

[Super Nothing]

If Kidnapper actually stole the opponent's minion, would it actually be used then?

Absolutely. I'd play a card that cost 6 mana, removed any card, and added a copy of that card even without the body. Since it pulls it off the field like Sap, it acts as a silence on deathrattles, so it would be like an Assassinate that silences a minion first then copies it to your hand and adds a 5/3 to the board.

 

[Miracle]

If Kidnapper actually stole the opponent's minion, would it actually be used then?

A 6 mana Mind Control with a 5/3 body?

That might be a little too good.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

If Kidnapper actually stole the opponent's minion, would it actually be used then?

That would probably be OP. If Kidnapper was a 4 drop or had better stats people might play him, he dies to Flame Imp.

lol I forgot you had to COMBO that fucker, what a terrible card.

 

[G.ZZZ]

If Kidnapper actually stole the opponent's minion, would it actually be used then?

Probably way too good tbh. SHould work only on minions with power less than Kidnapper or something like that.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

"Through playing constructed I learned the world is not a nice warm fuzzy place..." - Trump 2015

 

[gutshot]

Poisened Blade only receives a +1 even after Justicar Trueheart has been played.

https://twitter.com/CM_Whirthun/status/624333910688796672

Also, Chromaggus' copy of a card drawn through Hero Power when Fizzlebang is in play costs the normal amount of mana.

https://twitter.com/CM_Whirthun/status/624615024217079808

 

[ZealousD]

Tavern Brawl is the ultimate way to make bad cards good again for a week. Just have one brawl a year where the worst cards in the game turn into okay cards because of the rules you have picked (not because you picked the ruleset "Kidnapper gets +10/+10!!!").

New brawl. Change all hero powers to "summon a hobgoblin"

 

[Super Nothing]

Poisened Blade only receives a +1 even after Justicar Trueheart has been played.

https://twitter.com/CM_Whirthun/status/624333910688796672

Well, it's completely worthless, then. Rogues already have a 1/3 weapon for the same cost that can get a boost just by having mechs on the board. There are plenty of other ways for them to boost the attack of their weapons and there's already a weapon that is just outright better for only one more mana. Maybe it would be playable if it worked like Upgrade where it would boost the attack/durability of a weapon if you already had one equipped.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Poisoned blade seems to be more about inspire synergy and less about merely buffing your weapon's attack by 1 each turn. Really looking at it the wrong way imo.

So the way I think about the card is it could be really good, or really bad, based on what inspire cards we get. What if there is an inspire card: heal the hero for 4? That would create awesome synergy imo.

In short, while the damage it puts out is not irrelevant and is a big part about how good or bad the card is, can't ignore the purpose the card would be played for which is inspire synergy imo.

 

[Schryver]

That would probably be OP. If Kidnapper was a 4 drop or had better stats people might play him, he dies to Flame Imp.

lol I forgot you had to COMBO that fucker, what a terrible card.

Rofl yep. I had him in my deck a few times in last weeks? brawl and comboing it was impossible

 

[Miracle]

Ouch, that stinks to hear. That makes Poisoned Blade even more bad now. I agree with someone saying that it should be a 2 drop. At least then the card would be playable.

Than again, I'll wait and see. With the inspire mechanic, I imagine Blizzard plans to slow down the meta a lot this time.

 

[Dreavus]

Oh man, that picture is so sad.

Kidnapper needs a stats buff, especially since it requires combo. Tempo-wise, it's a pretty good card when you can pull it off, but it dies to almost anything on the rebound.

Patient assassin should be like 1 mana.

 

[ZealousD]

The card seems so obviously overcosted that I have to believe that there are other Rogue cards in this set that make it reasonable. There's no way that card works in a vacuum.