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zoukka · Jul 30, 2015

Ultrabum said:
Mad scientist.

Totem golem is going to be 2/30 cards in your deck. Being able to play it on turn 2 or turn 1 with coin is the dream.

Compare it to the mad scientist dream. Card is not enough to make shamen viable...

Well Mad Scientist is op and "trades" favourably with any early minion in the game by your definition. That has nothing to do with Totem Golem.

Minsc said:
Not sure (Millhouse I suppose lol), but minibot is certainly one of the most annoying two drop in the game, next to Mad Scientist. I really just meant it trades 1:1 with another popular 2 mana creature that doesn't have overload, and since it's technically 3-mana anyway, things to look worse when you compare it to 3 mana cards, which my argument has always been with overload... properly balance overload shouldn't put it equal to a vanilla minion of similar mana cost. I strongly believe that you have to evaluate it at 3 mana, much like you need to evaluate Earth Elemental at 8 mana, no one thinks of it as a 5 mana creature. It's a 8 mana card that you can play at turn 5, but then typically dies (to BGH/BK/etc) and leaves you with just 3 mana on turn 6 to basically pass your turn and go downhill.

Well one class specific 2-drop doesn't make Totem Golem bad, it just shows that minibot is top tier 2-drop at trading. Whether Totem Golem is big enough for the overload remains to be seen. I still think shaman needs more ways to utilize overload than just the burn spell.

Ultrabum · Jul 30, 2015

zoukka said:
Well Mad Scientist is op and "trades" favourably with any early minion in the game by your definition. That has nothing to do with Totem Golem.

Well one class specific 2-drop doesn't make Totem Golem bad, it just shows that minibot is top tier 2-drop at trading. Whether Totem Golem is big enough for the overload remains to be seen. I still think shaman needs more ways to utilize overload than just the burn spell.

My point is shamen needs mad scientist level op cards or it will continue to be 3% of the ladder. Totem golem is not mad scientist level op, therefore shamen will continue to suck.

Raxus · Jul 30, 2015

If you are running a totem golem deck then chances are good you will run the totem buff spell as well.

Also nobody needs mad scientists level of OP. The game needs to be better at nerfing cards like mad scientist to avoid the game tilting to a handful of classes.

zoukka · Jul 30, 2015

Ultrabum said:
My point is shamen needs mad scientist level op cards or it will continue to be 3% of the ladder. Totem golem is not mad scientist level op, therefore shamen will continue to suck.

We just need to nerf the fucking scientist already.

Santiako · Jul 30, 2015

How would you even nerf the scientist? Cost 3? Make it a 0/2? Getting a random secret instead?

zoukka · Jul 30, 2015

Santiako said:
How would you even nerf the scientist? Cost 3? Make it a 0/2? Getting a random secret instead?

Make it 1/1 and I'm happy. It would still be the best 2-drop in the game. Making it 3-mana is even better, then it's balanced.

bjaelke · Jul 30, 2015

Change it to "Battlecry: Put a random secret from your deck into your hand."

CoolOff · Jul 30, 2015

Yep, 3 mana Scientist is long overdue.

But, I mean, this is the company that left us with the Undertaker-meta for six months, so don't get your hopes up...

Ultrabum · Jul 30, 2015

bjaelke said:
Change it to "Battlecry: Put a random secret from your deck into your hand."

This would be cool. It's still 2 mana 2 2, draw a card, which is crazy good. Too bad secrets suck so much then it probably wouldn't be played lol.

mxgt · Jul 30, 2015

Mad Scientist has been bullshit for an entire year now and is still untouched. I don't think they're ever changing it.

Or Dr. 7 for that matter.

ZealousD · Jul 30, 2015

3 mana Mad Scientist is probably fine. Hunter would likely stop running it and some Mage decks would back off but others might still run it. You would still see it played with Effigy or Mirror Entity or in Freeze Mage.

zoukka · Jul 30, 2015

mxgt said:
Mad Scientist has been bullshit for an entire year now and is still untouched. I don't think they're ever changing it.

Yep. They want people to play secrets and an op enabler is the only way it can happen.

I remember calling Scientist as the most op card when they revealed GvG cards too...

Pooya · Jul 30, 2015

That interview doesn't leave much hope for constructive changes, their new set so far is quite telling too meh. No mention of mad scientist even, I guess it's balanced.

Opiate · Jul 30, 2015

Flame Juggler is not a control tool. It might be if it couldn't RNG face, but it can, so frankly it's at least as good an agro tool as it is a control tool, and I suspect in practice it will be neither. I'm guessing you don't play much control if you think Flame Juggler is the answer to the early game control problems.

ViviOggi · Jul 30, 2015

Question for the MTG stans: how does/did WotC handle failed mechanics like secrets? Do they introduce a variety of synergy cards or just take the L and move on? Or is the game complex enough that entire mechanics don't become completely worthless in the first place?

CoolOff said:
Yep, 3 mana Scientist is long overdue.

But, I mean, this is the company that left us with the Undertaker-meta for six months, so don't get your hopes up...

It was that long? Lord...

Skux · Jul 30, 2015

Where are mah Paladin TGT cards!

ViviOggi · Jul 30, 2015

Skux said:
Where are mah Paladin TGT cards!

Mate you just got two disgusting Eboladin legendaries

Pooya · Jul 30, 2015

Paladin is getting very good neutrals so far!

ReadingRambo · Jul 30, 2015

ViviOggi said:
Question for the MTG stans: how does/did WotC handle failed mechanics like secrets? Do they introduce a variety of synergy cards or just take the L and move on? Or is the game complex enough that entire mechanics don't become completely worthless in the first place?

It was that long? Lord...

Blocks rotate out of play regularly so bad mechanics go away on their own. Sometimes they get re-released with a new set and players just scatch their head. That's with crappy keywords ,though. I don't know of a card type as integral to magic as secrets are to HS that are broken currently.

Minsc · Jul 30, 2015

Very strange they haven't expanded secrets to the other classes. Mad Scientists for all, c'mon Blizzard! Not only that they should really triple the number of secrets every class has access too, so it's significantly harder to guess what one each one is.

That or just make Mad Scientist put a random secret in to play (from all secrets, any class), instead of thinning your deck. Then everyone could use secrets too.

Nirolak · Jul 30, 2015

They're not going to nerf Mad Scientist because they added him to the game to ensure that secrets got way more use than they used to and it worked.

It's like how Mechwarper was never going to change because the whole idea was to get at least some people using mechs due to the number of mech cards they put out.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see some very powerful dragon and inspire cards show up toward this end.

Opiate · Jul 30, 2015

Nirolak said:
They're not going to nerf Mad Scientist because they added him to the game to ensure that secrets got way more use than they used to and it worked.

It's like how Mechwarper was never going to change because the whole idea was to get at least some people using mechs due to the number of mech cards they put out.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see some very powerful dragon and inspire cards show up toward this end.

I think this highlights an important point about all these inspire cards we've been complaining about; yes, they're all very slow, but all you need is a card like Mad Scientist to make the entire idea come together. It's entirely possible that all these cards we've been going "cool, but too slow" about will have some enabler which will make them work such as Mad Scientist and Mech Warper.

Vanillalite · Jul 30, 2015

The thing about secrets is if you took away mad scientist then they'd be worthless. Plus quite frankly Lock and Patron Warrior tops as it is (IMO). Neither of them have secrets. Take away secrets and classes like Mage and Hunter fall further behind those top two.

georly · Jul 30, 2015

Minsc said:
Very strange they haven't expanded secrets to the other classes. Mad Scientists for all, c'mon Blizzard! Not only that they should really triple the number of secrets every class has access too, so it's significantly harder to guess what one each one is.

That or just make Mad Scientist put a random secret in to play (from all secrets, any class), instead of thinning your deck. Then everyone could use secrets too.

I like that only certain classes have secrets. I like that only certain classes have weapons. I don't want all classes to have secrets/weapons. I do think priest and warlock are overdue a unique mechanic. Shaman at least has overload and druids have the ability to gain mana crystals and have cards that offer choice.

zoukka · Jul 30, 2015

Opiate said:
Flame Juggler is not a control tool. It might be if it couldn't RNG face, but it can, so frankly it's at least as good an agro tool as it is a control tool, and I suspect in practice it will be neither. I'm guessing you don't play much control if you think Flame Juggler is the answer to the early game control problems.

Where did I say it's a solution to control deck problems?

The card is blatantly designed to kill 1-drops, its battlecry and stats do not lend it towards aggressive decks at all. You can argue it's not strong enough of a card to be played in constructed but it's most definitely designed to soft-counter aggressive strats by taking out a 1-drop and then trading.

And I play plenty of control. Taskmaster is a card you are extremely happy to see in your starting hand against aggro as control warrior. Flame Juggler can be better. It can be a lot worse too and that might be what renders it unplayable in the end.

Haunted · Jul 30, 2015

I can understand that they want to use special non-minion cards like secrets and weapons to further differentiate the classes.

But there's some questionable things about the way they're implemented in the game right now.

Code:

      Secrets Weapons
Hunter    &#10003;      &#10003;
Paladin   &#10003;      &#10003;
Rogue     X      &#10003;
Shaman    X      &#10003;
Warrior   X      &#10003;
Mage      &#10003;      X
Priest    X      X
Warlock   X      X 
Druid     X      X

I'm fine with classes having both as long as every class has at least one or the other - but having neither seems so limiting. Lore-wise, there's nothing stopping Priests, Druids, Warlocks and Mages from using staves and as weapons, while Rogues and Warlocks are obvious candidates for employing secrets and subterfuge in their arsenal.

crazygambit · Jul 30, 2015

Minsc said:
Very strange they haven't expanded secrets to the other classes. Mad Scientists for all, c'mon Blizzard! Not only that they should really triple the number of secrets every class has access too, so it's significantly harder to guess what one each one is.

That or just make Mad Scientist put a random secret in to play (from all secrets, any class), instead of thinning your deck. Then everyone could use secrets too.

That would make Mad Scientist even more broken. To get any use of him currently, you have to run at least 2 secrets. A lot of decks just run the 2, so if they ever draw one, they won't get any value out of MS.

With your change you'd be guaranteed to get value out of it and it would be a must run on every single deck (plus no one would waste the slots on secrets on their decks anymore).

It would be pretty bad.

zoukka · Jul 30, 2015

Haunted said:
I'm fine with classes having both as long as every class has at least one or the other - but having neither seems so limiting. Lore-wise, there's nothing stopping Priests, Druids, Warlocks and Mages from using staves and as weapons, while Rogues and Warlocks are obvious candidates for employing secrets and subterfuge in their arsenal.

They would need to erase Swamp Ooze and Harrison if all classes had weapons.

Opiate · Jul 30, 2015

zoukka said:
Where did I say it's a solution to control deck problems?

You described it as a "hard anti aggro card." It isn't. Just like Shadowboxer isn't an anti-aggro card. Nor is Knife Juggler, or any other minion which does random damage and can hit face.

And I play plenty of control. Taskmaster is a card you are extremely happy to see in your starting hand against aggro as control warrior. Flame Juggler can be better. It can be a lot worse too and that might be what renders it unplayable in the end.

Yes, if this card said "do 1 damage to a random minion," that would dramatically change its makeup. As it is, it's at least as much an agro card as it is a potential control card, and it is certainly not a "hard anti-aggro card."

Vanillalite · Jul 30, 2015

zoukka said:
They would need to erase Swamp Ooze and Harrison if all classes had weapons.

Mystic would be an auto include as well if every class had secrets.

As it is (IMO) the best two classes in the game right now don't run secrets, and lock doesn't run weps either. That life tap FTOPW

Opiate · Jul 30, 2015

Yes, I'm personally fine with asymmetries, even dramatic ones, as long as it roughly averages out in the end. Mage has secrets, which can be very powerful, while Warrior has some amazing weapons. Hunter has both weapons and secrets, but its legendaries suck and it has no method of control. All 3 of these classes are good.

The only time it bothers me is when it doesn't even out, as is true for Shaman and Priest, for instance. I would have no problem with the overload mechanic if it seemed to be making Shamans competitive, which it doesn't.

IceMarker · Jul 30, 2015

I leave for 2 days and you guys are pages into a new |OT|! #TGT

gutshot · Jul 30, 2015

Eteric Rice said:
Okay, can someone help me with a problem?

I won the Team Archon thing where you can get 40 packs for like $25. I play on PC, but I have a Google Nexus 7. In order to use the coupon I have to download Hearthstone on the Amazon store. So I downloaded the Amazon App, search for Hearthstone, and click it. The problem is that there isn't a download button anywhere. It just says this...

"This mobile application does not currently support digital downloads. Add this item to your wish list and you can view and purchase it from your computer."

There's literally no download or install button. It's driving me nuts because I wanted to use the freaking coupon. I've been trying for like 3 days now.

There was an issue with the new patch getting pushed to Amazon before it went out everywhere else. Once Amazon realized that, they pulled the app from their store. You couldn't download the app from Amazon for the past 3 days because of that. The patch just went live everywhere yesterday, so I expect Hearthstone should be downloadable from the Amazon Appstore now.

If it is still not downloadable, it could be that you already have the Google Play version of the game on your tablet? If so, you need to delete that version.

If it is neither of those, then I don't know. Contact Amazon support, I suppose.

johnsmith · Jul 30, 2015

The day they add secrets to more classes is the day I quit hearthstone. Easily the most annoying part of the game. The only thing that makes them bearable now is that you can predict what it is most of the time based on the deck you're playing since there's so very little overlap on what secrets are played between decks.

Storm Prelude · Jul 30, 2015

AW YISS!

Finally a goddammit (not so useless) legendary after operning like 30 packs. Well, not so sure about that but still. Thank you, Jesus.

ReadingRambo · Jul 30, 2015

Mad Scientist is certainly over-budgeted in mage and a bit over for hunter. It's perfectly fine in paladin. That said, it's not a back breaking card in the slightest. Secrets aren't exactly secret and are generally easy to play around and they add a slight bit of depth to any given match. Mad Scientist is held in check by the numerous silences running around anyway. Kezan'ing the next turn after killing their scientist is a blowout also because decks that run mad scientist only run secrets because of mad scientist, it's very weak actually. The meta isn't dominated by decks running secrets.

ReadingRambo · Jul 30, 2015

Storm Prelude said:
AW YISS!

Finally a goddammit (not so useless) legendary after operning like 30 packs. Well, not so sure about that but still. Thank you, Jesus.

That pack (minus flare) is insane. Grats! One legendary in 30 is kinda crappy luck but not terrible. 1 in 20 is the statistical expectation I believe.

zoukka · Jul 30, 2015

Opiate said:
Yes, if this card said "do 1 damage to a random minion," that would dramatically change its makeup. As it is, it's at least as much an agro card as it is a potential control card, and it is certainly not a "hard anti-aggro card."

Shadowboxer isn't an aggro card either. It activates from defensive cards and skills. Knife Juggler activates from aggressive cards (summoning more cheap minions). Flame Juggler can hit face because otherwise it would be unbalanced, not because it's meant as an aggressive card.

"Hard anti-aggro" was an overstatement for sure, but the card is clearly made hunter in mind. Turn 1 Worgen Infiltrator or Leper Gnome are prime spots to play Flame Juggler.

manfestival · Jul 30, 2015

I stopped playing the game before the naxraxus whatever update came out on that halloween I believe. Feels like my decks are antiquated. Is there any way to get any of the old content without shelling 25 shekels? 25 seems ridiculously high

Phawx · Jul 30, 2015

I hate opening 50 packs and only getting 3 legendaries, 1 of which you already have.

ViviOggi · Jul 30, 2015

Phawx said:
I hate opening 50 packs and only getting 3 legendaries, 1 of which you already have.

That's above average...

Noaloha · Jul 30, 2015

Are Murloc decks a thing?

I found myself both a little tipsy and a little bored last night. Rather out of the blue, I found myself sat in front of Hearthstone. I played somewhat sporadically and very casually for a year or so back in 2013, so I wasn't sure what I'd find looking at my custom decks and I had no idea what sort of meta the game finds itself wallowing through currently. Turned out I had 9 completely shitty-looking decks and my one okay-I-suppose deck, a rough approximation of that Trump's Mage Deck which I recall being popular for its easy to build-ness and for it being competent enough to at least not be frustrating.

After going through my decks and playing a few Mage games and trying out that Brawl thing (fun!), I'd transitioned from tipsy to sozzled. I was going through my cards to see what sort of things I'd pulled all those years ago and saw that the collection was inexplicably Murloc heavy. Something fishy about the game's RNG back then perhaps. Another few drinks in me and I was surprised to find myself in the crafting section, dusting the shit out of the few Legendaries I had and a *ton* of Epics, redirecting all that constituent card matter into every goddam single Murloc available in the game that I had yet to obtain.

Expert deck builder that I wasn't aware I am, I mulled things over and then threw every single last one of them into a Shaman deck, puffed that out with a few spells and then merrily spent the rest of the night murdrglgrglgling Ranked. I don't recall much of anything about it, evolved way beyond plain old sozzled as I had become, but I must have done okay as I was Rank 17 this morning. Hungover, I carried on playing a little. Rank 16 now.

I'm not harbouring any hopes that this is actually a Good Deck obviously. But I'm pleasantly surprised that it seems to be a Rank 15 deck at least.

Anyway, with that anecdote out of my system I feel I can get on with my day now.

Opiate · Jul 30, 2015

Phawx said:
I hate opening 50 packs and only getting 3 legendaries, 1 of which you already have.

3 legendaries in 50 packs is actually above average, I believe. On average, there is 1 legendary in every ~20 packs.

Hupsel · Jul 30, 2015

Damn I opened a deck and got Captain Greenskin, Big Game Hunter, a rare and a golden cone of cold

My rogue pirate deck is rdy

AwesomeMeat · Jul 30, 2015

Noaloha said:
Are Murloc decks a thing?

They aren't a huge thing... but they are a thing. I've seen more in the last week lately which seem to match a deck posted on hearthpwn / reddit from a guy who got Legend with his murloc deck and posted a guide for it.

It is fun and a pretty easy deck to play.

AntiFacebook · Jul 30, 2015

if the most successful decks are aggro,why do people consider boom to be so OP?
He has no place in aggro decks anyway

Ultrabum · Jul 30, 2015

LowKeyedUp said:
Mad Scientist is certainly over-budgeted in mage and a bit over for hunter. It's perfectly fine in paladin. That said, it's not a back breaking card in the slightest. Secrets aren't exactly secret and are generally easy to play around and they add a slight bit of depth to any given match. Mad Scientist is held in check by the numerous silences running around anyway. Kezan'ing the next turn after killing their scientist is a blowout also because decks that run mad scientist only run secrets because of mad scientist, it's very weak actually. The meta isn't dominated by decks running secrets.

80% of my matches (between rank 5-3) are vs hunter and Mage....

Dahbomb · Jul 30, 2015

AntiFacebook said:
if the most successful decks are aggro,why do people consider boom to be so OP?
He has no place in aggro decks anyway

LMAO !

Boom still gets used in quite a few aggro decks like Zoolock and just about every Midrange deck like Midrange Hunter. All the aggro Mech decks use it as well like Mech Shaman. Tempo Mage uses it as well.

About the only aggro/midrange deck that doesn't use it is Face Hunter and that deck is slowly being phased out by more Midrange-ish Hunter decks which are more consistent.

Boom gets used in these decks because of the Bots which are free annoying bodies that can threaten lethal out of no where if they end up going face. If they hit minions and kill them that's additional free value. It's win/win for aggro decks. If you win before Dr Balanced then good... if the game is delayed then Dr Balanced is great for finishing early.

ReadingRambo · Jul 30, 2015

Ultrabum said:
80% of my matches (between rank 5-3) are vs hunter and Mage....

So tech in an owl and mystic and shit on them?

V-Faction · Jul 30, 2015

The value on Boom is just so astounding. Here, have these free summoned bodies that are GUARANTEED to do 4 damage to your opponent's board minimum just by existing. There are no drawbacks to playing him.

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