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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks
- Thread starter ZealousD
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BananasWithGuns
Member
Almost time to start teching in Blood Knight.
Well technically Tirion is but Minibot wins way more games (in both Arena and Constructed) simply because it comes out early and snowballs you to victory.
Tirion is still the Divine Shield minion with the highest win rate in Arena.
that extra turn later you get it out is pretty huge though
a big part of what makes shielded minibots so good is when you can take out a 2 health thing with it and still have it on the board you aren't really gonna see many of those on turn 3
the only 3 drop you can really do that with is gnomish experimenter and that's a mediocre rare
Tirion is the ideal target for your removal spells/silence though. If there's no answer (more common in Arena obviously) it's fantastic but Minibot is almost always going to get great trades and if the opponent is forced to used spells to deal with it, that will still probably be worth it for two mana cost.
So, I would express the frustration with the newly revealed cards this way: inspire seems cool, and I'm all for slow, efficient cards. They can be fun. But you could show 10,000 slow, efficient cards, and all of those will basically be thrown in to a bottomless void unless Blizzard shows some early game (2/3/4 drops) which allow these slower decks to avoid being overwhelmed. We don't need more slow, efficient cards. We need some way to enable slow, efficient cards to be playable.
quackamole
Member
What we need are early board clear that somehow deals with all these deathrattle minions and give you back the tempo.
I agree mostly, though Shaman just got an incredible 2-drop in the Totem Golem. But I'd love to see a 2 or 3 drop minion with battlecry "deal one damage to all other minions." Give us a way to combat the cancer decks.
Brofist
Member
Now that you mention it yeah I notice more lag than usual.
Flame Juggler is a neutral taskmaster, sometimes better, sometimes a bit worse but definitely a hard anti-aggro card. And those new 3-drop legendaries basically have taunt.
By incredible you mean it's a spider tank. It's only going to be good if totems become a thing. Turn 2 totem golem turn 3 hero power is too slow.
You're comparing Turn 2 Shielded Minibot versus a Turn 3 Scarlet Crusader and trying to say that Silent Knight is still the better stat line. That really isn't true. Your experience with Shielded Minibot is going to be completely different from your experience with Scarlet Crusader because they're dropped on completely different turns. If Scarlet Crusader was dropped on Turn 2 it would be INSANE and absolutely better than Shielded Minibot. Likewise, if Shielded Minibot was dropped on Turn 3 you'd think it was a lot weaker. When cards are down at the 1, 2, 3 mana cost level, something costing 1 more mana is a HUGE difference. "River Crocolisk is like a Zombie Chow for 1 more mana and it doesn't have the huge downside"
It's faster than Turn 2 hero power Turn 3 whatever else Shaman was going to play on Turn 3.
People are severely underestimating what coming out a turn earlier means for Totem Golem.
Officerrob
Banned
Flame Juggler is no better than Mad Bomber, and nobody runs that
Only if you didn't get Amazon coins and bonus coins.
I ended up buying 5000 coins for 45$ to buy pre-order and got 1000 coins as a bonus. Will use those later to buy more packs.
Seems like a pretty good deal.
Sneaky Gato
Member
I have the spectator is anyone one on that I can watch?
toddhunter
Member
Turn 1 hunter - 2-1
Turn 1 shaman - pass
Turn 2 hunter - 3-2 and 2 damage
Turn 2 shaman - totem golemn
Turn 3 hunter - trade buffed 2-1 into golemn, 3 damage + whatever buffed the 2-1
Turn 3 shaman - .... Hero power to an empty board
Turn 4 hunter - lol
Turn 1 shaman - pass
Turn 2 hunter - 3-2 and 2 damage
Turn 2 shaman - totem golemn
Turn 3 hunter - trade buffed 2-1 into golemn, 3 damage + whatever buffed the 2-1
Turn 3 shaman - .... Hero power to an empty board
Turn 4 hunter - lol
It's significantly better than Mad Bomber. Flame Juggler will never backfire.
Actually if Minibot was a neutral minion at 3 cost it would still get picked in Arena around as much as Scarlet Crusader.
Minibot is legitimately overpowered as a 2 drop but that's fine because it's a class minion (just like Mana Wyrm or Dark Cultist or Fire Elemental or Whirling Zapomatic). That card would NEVER exist as a neutral minion unless Blizzard goes completely bat shit insane.
To me comparing Scarlet Crusader to Shielded Minibot is like comparing Whirling Zapomatic to Thrallmar Farseer. Granted Scarlet has the better flip of the stats than Thrallmar (and thus is much better) but still the idea is the same... same exact abilities, same number of stats... different costs which is only justified by one being a class minion and the other being a neutral minion.
My point is that that 2/2 Stealth Divine card... is the absolute best it can be stats wise without being ridiculously over powered (like it can't be a 3/2 and even at 3/1 it makes Scarlet Crusader obsolete just like Dr Balanced makes War Golem obsolete). Hence why I think it's solid.
Minibot is legitimately overpowered as a 2 drop but that's fine because it's a class minion (just like Mana Wyrm or Dark Cultist or Fire Elemental or Whirling Zapomatic). That card would NEVER exist as a neutral minion unless Blizzard goes completely bat shit insane.
To me comparing Scarlet Crusader to Shielded Minibot is like comparing Whirling Zapomatic to Thrallmar Farseer. Granted Scarlet has the better flip of the stats than Thrallmar (and thus is much better) but still the idea is the same... same exact abilities, same number of stats... different costs which is only justified by one being a class minion and the other being a neutral minion.
My point is that that 2/2 Stealth Divine card... is the absolute best it can be stats wise without being ridiculously over powered (like it can't be a 3/2 and even at 3/1 it makes Scarlet Crusader obsolete just like Dr Balanced makes War Golem obsolete). Hence why I think it's solid.
It's a 2/3 which already makes it much better than bomber.
Officerrob
Banned
The object is to kill the one health minion, thus giving you board control. Mad Bomber has a 70.4% chance of killing the one health minion, much greater than the 50% chance Flame Juggler has. I'd much rather take the chance of taking one or two damage to the face in order to have a better chance to kill the one health minion.
It's been a year now and I have to ask again...
Why the fuck is Silverback Patriach a 1/4 instead of being a 2/4?
Also Tauren Warrior should be a 1/4 instead of a 2/3. Still bad but better than before and can take two hits from shitty creatures before dying. Also becomes usable in Hobgoblin.
And Priestess of Elune should heal for 6 health instead of 4.
God damn there are some awful for no good reason cards in Hearthstone.
Why the fuck is Silverback Patriach a 1/4 instead of being a 2/4?
Also Tauren Warrior should be a 1/4 instead of a 2/3. Still bad but better than before and can take two hits from shitty creatures before dying. Also becomes usable in Hobgoblin.
And Priestess of Elune should heal for 6 health instead of 4.
God damn there are some awful for no good reason cards in Hearthstone.
Totem Golem is tough to remove, because few decks run reliable 4 damage spells usable on turn 2 or 3. It's almost a two for one guarantee, if not better. If you follow it up with a Zapomatic on turn 3, you put serious pressure on the opponent, especially if they just used their removal and/or board to deal with the Golem. The problem with Zapomatic has always been that it is easily removed or stopped with a taunt, but the Totem Golem may change things by being a bodyguard of sorts.
This would be accurate if there was no such thing as the coin.
Turn 1: coin + totem golem
Turn 2: rockbiter
That's enough to clear almost any board on turn 2 and you'll still probably have the golem alive.
Bomber gets worse if you have minions on the board. Flame juggler is a 2/3 which is the biggest and most relevant difference between these cards.
Yeah 2/3 is much better against aggro than 3/2. 2/3 kills a 2/1 Leper Gnome/Worgen Infiltrator without dying which is what you want in an early game creature.
The card still isn't a good enough anti aggro card to be something you want to use as a tech card IMO.
Like I would much rather just use Unstable Ghoul or Annoyotron if I desperately wanted anti aggro early game cards. The main thing is that Grim Patron deck kinda fucks all of this up. No class can really afford to play Unstable Ghoul (despite being a great card against aggro Paladin and Face Hunter) because the card will literally lose you matches against Grim Patrons.
The card still isn't a good enough anti aggro card to be something you want to use as a tech card IMO.
Like I would much rather just use Unstable Ghoul or Annoyotron if I desperately wanted anti aggro early game cards. The main thing is that Grim Patron deck kinda fucks all of this up. No class can really afford to play Unstable Ghoul (despite being a great card against aggro Paladin and Face Hunter) because the card will literally lose you matches against Grim Patrons.
toddhunter
Member
70.4%?
Officerrob
Banned
Yeah, I'm not playing either of those cards as anti-aggro. Unstable Ghoul is better than both of them
He's correct. Mad Bomber also becomes much better when there are 2-3 1 health creatures on board for him to snipe.
Mad Bomber just becomes worse when you have your own minions but it's a decent anti aggro card in the game if you REALLY need something like that.
This is true of a lot of cards at around 3 mana. Demolisher would be totally overpowered as a 2/4. Gnomeregan Infanty would be overpowered as a 2/4. Ironfur Grizzly would be overpowered as a 3/4. Stoneskin Gargoyle would be overpowered as a 2/4. Just because you can add a stat point to a card and it becomes overpowered doesn't mean the card is any good. The difference between a single stat point is huge at low mana costs.
But Silverback Patriarch though....
I never actually thought of silverback before. Especially weird since ironfur is a 3/3 taunt beast for 3, I don't know why they have two similar minions even on the same slot but you outright lose a stat point in comparison.
But yeah there's a lot of ass minions from the very start for no reason. It's always funny to see stormpike commando at 5 mana to do 2 damage when BGH is 2 mana cheaper with the same statline and a much more powerful ability.
Stormpike Commando's Battle Cry is much more versatile and usable than BGH's. It's also Epic vs Common card. Ironforge Rifleman on the other hand is really, really bad... like it's 1 mana of stats better than an Elven Archer but it costs 2 more LMAO! I believe people like Noxious always bring up that card as being ridiculously awful and especially punishing for new players.
We would be here all night if we started comparing cards of different rarities.
Magma Rager also doesn't make sense as a 5/1 for 3 mana. In the Rag vs Nef fight, it was a HERO POWER for 2 mana and it still sucked! Magma Rager is a card that should rightfully be 5/2 like the 2nd form of the Druid of the Flames. It would still suck... but at least it would be consistent.
But as a 2-mana 2/2 deal 1 damage would make it a premium neutral basic card. Not every single card need to be as efficient as possible.
Silverback Patriarch is a 1/4 because Blizzard originally thought that Tribes had significant value on their own. That's why most of the murloc cards are independently shitty unless you have synergy cards like warleader. That's why the 2 mana vanilla cards (River Croc, Bloodfen Raptor) are both beasts. Plus, Blizzard had originally kept odd number cards weaker than even numbered cards for a long time. The 1, 3, 5, and 7 slots were all very crap Pre-Naxx.
I don't understand why Dalaran Mage isn't a 2/4. Apparently it got nerfed back in beta? I really don't see how it would be overpowered as a 2/4. Ironforge Rifleman could probably safely be a 2/3. Magma Rager could be a 5/2.
toddhunter
Member
Nvm, read what he was asking about
The Amazon Coin promotion is already going on now. You can get 10% off the Amazon coins plus you get another 1,000 coins on top that.
Do you need 50 packs?
This doesn't make sense when a card like Ironfur Grizzly is 3/3 and is a Taunt + Beast. That's why I always pick on this card because it's not like it's bad in isolation, it's bad when compared directly to a card within its own tribe and ability!
Dalaran Mage used to be 2/4 but this was also back in the days when Mage spells used to cost less and stuff. While I don't think he would be overpowered at 2/4, I think it would be more interesting to give him +2 spell power instead of just more attack. He would still suck but at least he would have a more interesting application.
1 - (2/3 x 2/3 x 2/3) = .around .70 which is 70%
The 2/3 is two chances to fail in one bomb (either it hits your face or the opponents). You multiply it 3 times with the number of bombs (so 2/3 3 times multplied) then you subtract from 1 then multiply by 100 to get the percentage.
Officerrob
Banned
The chance to hit the one health creature with one of three bombs with nothing else on the board. The math is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/1vq4i3/math_analysis_mad_bomber_and_arcane_missiles/
Basically:
X/3 minion on board. 3.7% chance of killing
X/2 minion on board 25.9% chance of killing
X/1 minion on board 70.4% chance of killing
Chance of not hitting that minion at all 29.6%
With hero powers being a huge part of the expansion, I wonder if something like this might be possible?
I tried to make it as balanced as possible, since I think this effect would be very cool, but not something you would want to make permanent unless you put some effort into it.
FAKE CARD
I tried to make it as balanced as possible, since I think this effect would be very cool, but not something you would want to make permanent unless you put some effort into it.
FAKE CARD
DreamMachine
Member
The promotion is for buying above $19.99 in packs. But you can only pre-order the 50 pack now for the new cards.
Not sure if this promotion will last past the new exp release.
Nerfing Thaurissan would be a terrible idea. The card provides so much combo potential and allows for creative plays that wouldn't be possible otherwise and it's a card that creates an interesting field dynamic when it's played (pseudo-taunt due to it's value in the right decks). While nerfing Patron Warrior in some way might be a good idea, that would be the worst possible card to nerf for the overall game.
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