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[Haly]

Let's get something clear right of the bat, Watcher is absolutely terrible unless your deck is specially designed to make use of it.

My god, it's almost like cards shouldn't be generally good, like Dr. Boom, or something.

Pulling it out of a Shredder is probably the worst possible minion you can get.

Doomsayer would like to have a word with you. So would Lorewalker Cho.

So if you don't wanna compare it to generic 2/3s then you're comparing it to a 4/5 in a deck that runs lots of ways to either silence your minions or give them taunt.

I hope you do know that you don't always want to Silence your Watcher. Sometimes you want to use it on an enemy. Silencing your Watcher usually means: "oh god oh god I'm getting swamped I need to set up a defense right now". If only there was a card like Watcher that could also attack while you built up your hand!

The 4/5 is always gonna be better... There's no reason to run this over Watcher IMO.

I question whether you've ever played Handlock in your life

 

[Dahbomb]

Why not just use Zombie Chow instead?

It's too much of a negative penalty for just 1 more health.

 

[Haly]

Zombie is bad late and dead in the mirror where every life counts.

 

[Randomizer123454444]

So, the wording on that card. Does that mean that if I use my hero power, Argent Watchman can't attack on the turn it was put down?

 

[Dahbomb]

Zombie is bad late and dead in the mirror where every life counts.

This card is bad late game too though.

And since we are thinking of how this card would function in a Handlock... you have to ask yourself would you actually run this over Ancient Watcher? I really wouldn't to be honest. Zombie Chow and Ancient Watcher are good enough for me.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Top decking zombie chow on turn 15 is the most feel bad thing ever. Late game Watchman is much more likely to get some use do to the fact that you are generally hero powering every turn. Are we really arguing what cards are worse in a top deck war?

 

[Szadek]

Doomsayer would like to have a word with you. So would Lorewalker Cho.

These cards can be really good,depending on the state of the game.

 

[ReadingRambo]

So, the wording on that card. Does that mean that if I use my hero power, Argent Watchman can't attack on the turn it was put down?

Yeah. I think the word "normal" was added for clarity on that point.

 

[Haly]

I'll explain why it's 2 for 2/4.

1 for 2/4 would be too good. It's an aggressive drop that Handlocks can play on curve (Handlocks have a very poor Turn 1 and Turn 3) and use freely without any support because they want to be Tapping anyway.

2 for 3/4 would be really good, but not overpowered like the first one is. Except Handlock is dominant right now and has been dominant for a while. What you don't want to do when a deck is dominating is to make cards that can make them even more consistent.

So, 2 for 2/4 is the compromise. This will put it in legitimate competition with Watcher/Chow without threatening to overwhelm either entirely and we'll see if there are any substitutions once the meta shakes out.

This card is bad late game too though.

Okay, let me rephrase. There are some cases where Chow is absolutely unplayable. One common situation is when the game is going into Fatigue for the other side. That's exactly when you don't want to leave +5 health on the board. There are situations where you don't want a 2/4 on the board either, and this exchange of downsides is what makes the card "fair".

These cards can be really good,depending on the state of the game.

And they can be also absolute blowouts, against you. My point is that it is absolutely not the single worst minion that could come out of Shredder. The only time when Watchman coming out of Shredder will destroy you is against Patron but then again, they can do it with so many other cards that it's not a Watchman specific downside.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Doomsayer and Cho aren't the worst cards to come out of a shredder. They have the potential to be but more times then not a Doomsayer has saved my ass and not ruined my ass.

Captain's Parrot is probably the worst. There's really no situation where it pops out and you go "OH THANK GOD" like Doomsayer

 

[Haly]

I guess Parrot is the worst then.

 

[Dahbomb]

Parrot could be better than an Ancient Watcher if you have no activators.

Lore Walker Cho could be the worst if you have a hand of spells.

Doomsayer could be game losing if you have a full board and the Shredder pops on the opponent's turn.


It's all situational bad/good. This card I would say is pretty good coming out of Shredder because you will usually have some space to hero power to get it to attack after turn 4.

But really, who cares if they come out of Shredder... we are trying to figure out if this card is worth using in decks or not (at a decently high level of play).

 

[Haly]

we are trying to figure out if this card is worth using in decks or not (at a decently high level of play).

Agreed.

This is my argument summarized:

1) There is a top tier deck right now that hero powers almost every turn, Handlock
2) Watchman is very similar to 2 cards they're already running
3) Watchman is created specifically for Handlock, going by the stats and the name, and the design of it
4) Therefore, it's concievable that this replaces one those cards, even as a singleton

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Agreed.

This is my argument summarized:

1) There is a top tier deck right now that hero powers almost every turn, Handlock
2) Watchman is very similar to 2 cards they're already running
3) Watchman is created specifically for Handlock, going by the stats and the name, and the design of it
4) Therefore, it's concievable that this replaces one those cards, even as a singleton

Handlock typically only hero powers the first 3 turns and then begins to curve out until hero powering again in the later stages of the game. Argent Watchman also sucks for Shadowflame combos and is a worse target for Sunfury Protector and Defender of Argus.

 

[Super Nothing]

Doomsayer and Cho aren't the worst cards to come out of a shredder. They have the potential to be but more times then not a Doomsayer has saved my ass and not ruined my ass.

Captain's Parrot is probably the worst. There's really no situation where it pops out and you go "OH THANK GOD" like Doomsayer

At least Captain's Parrot is a beast. It can enable Kill Command or Houndmaster. Novice Engineer is the worst because it's a plain 1/1. That being said, fuck Captain's Parrot. I hate it when I run my shredder into the other guy's shredder, and I get a Captain's Parrot and he gets a Succubus.

 

[Haly]

Handlock typically only hero powers the first 3 turns and then begins to curve out until hero powering again in the later stages of the game. Argent Watchman also sucks for Shadowflame combos and is a worse target for Sunfury Protector and Defender of Argus.

All valid points. The question then becomes, is the increase in reliability worth the loss of synergy? It took some time for Patron Warrior players to agree that:

1) Slam is core (synergy)
2) Gnomish Inventor is also core (reliability)
3) Unstable Ghoul is not core (synergy)
4) Dr. Boom is not core (reliability)

But these choices can't arise unless the options also exist, and I see Watchman as an option for Handlock.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

At least Captain's Parrot is a beast. It can enable Kill Command or Houndmaster. Novice Engineer is the worst because it's a plain 1/1. That being said, fuck Captain's Parrot. I hate it when I run my shredder into the other guy's shredder, and I get a Captain's Parrot and he gets a Succubus.

Yeah, I was thinking about this and about to correct myself and you are right, some Midrange hunter decks run shredders so Captain's Parrot is better then Novice Engineer, I was thinking in terms of those two being the worst but if they somehow got back into your hand NE would be better

 

[Dahbomb]

Agreed.

This is my argument summarized:

1) There is a top tier deck right now that hero powers almost every turn, Handlock
2) Watchman is very similar to 2 cards they're already running
3) Watchman is created specifically for Handlock, going by the stats and the name, and the design of it
4) Therefore, it's concievable that this replaces one those cards, even as a singleton

A valid argument however I am personally not convinced that this card could replace the two mentioned cards. I feel like a card like this might put you in more awkward situations. I don't feel that the positive outweighs the negative. Maybe if it had one more point of health.


Oh and Unstable Ghoul was all over in Team Archon in Patron decks. I think the only real negative against Ghoul for Patron decks is in the mirror.

 

[Super Nothing]

Has anybody brought up the potential Unstable Portal + Effigy auto wins yet? If you pull some ridiculous shit from Unstable Portal and then play it while you have Effigy out, you could get a turn 3 6 drop with deathrattle summon a 6 drop. Bonus if it's Cairne, Sky Golem, or Sylvanas. Mad Scientist can facilitate this by pulling Effigy after your turn 2. Even if it's a mediocre 6 drop, getting a second 6 drop basically for free that early could be nearly impossible to recover from.

 

[CoolOff]

Has anybody brought up the potential Unstable Portal + Effigy auto wins yet? If you pull some ridiculous shit from Unstable Portal and then play it while you have Effigy out, you could get a turn 3 6 drop with deathrattle summon a 6 drop. Bonus if it's Cairne, Sky Golem, or Sylvanas. Mad Scientist can facilitate this by pulling Effigy after your turn 2. Even if it's a mediocre 6 drop, getting a second 6 drop basically for free that early could be nearly impossible to recover from.

As much an edge-case as any Unstable Portal shenanigans, if not more.

 

[Auctopus]

Pretty fun brawl.

Archmage Antonidas makes you unstoppable.

 

[Pooya]

9 drop from portal turns into Majordomo by Effigy. auto win.

 

[CoolOff]

Gadgetzan + Sorcerer's Apprentice in this brawl lol.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Yay, just lost to the Nozdormu skip turn exploit.

Why hasn't Blizzard fixed this again? Or you know, removed Nozdormu until they CAN fix it?

 

[Acinixys]

Oh boy guys these cards sure do make me want to pay real money for 50 packs.

I agree

I would happily spend the money of they just released all the stupid cards already

This drip feed shit is so retarded from the players standpoint

 

[Kumo]

Why in the world is mind games in the priest brawl deck? -___-

 

[Eteric Rice]

Okay, so how does one submit a ticket in this game? I still haven't gotten the 40 packs I bought with the Team Archon code through the Amazon app. It's been like 3 or 4 hours. They've even charged my account, but no packs.

 

[jgminto]

Wow, Argent Watchman might be the worst revealed so far? One health point above regular 2-mana stats and zero other benefit for the horrible disadvantage. If it had taunt that might be a decent anti-aggro card in the early game but since it doesn't even have that it's totally useless.

 

[Raxus]

Wow, Argent Watchman might be the worst revealed so far? One health point above regular 2-mana stats and zero other benefit for the horrible disadvantage. If it had taunt that might be a decent anti-aggro card in the early game but since it doesn't even have that it's totally useless.

Pretty sure the 2/5 return to hand is far worse.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

Why in the world is mind games in the priest brawl deck? -___-

All the spells are randomized every time you play.

 

[Raxus]

All the spells are randomized every time you play.

Funny story. I saw a someone playing a priest deck with mind games and out of all the cards the player could have put down he puts down Malorne. Priest made a hell of a comeback once the Malorne was dealt with.

 

[Skux]

I'm not paying 2 mana to attack with a 2/4 when I can get a 2/3 that will do it for free every turn and let me play a strong 3 drop on turn 3.

 

[ZealousD]

Pretty sure the 2/5 return to hand is far worse.

It isn't. I would actually pick that card in arena.

 

[Kumo]

All the spells are randomized every time you play.

Oh. I thought it was just Blizzard being Blizzard.

 

[Papercuts]

Yay, just lost to the Nozdormu skip turn exploit.

Why hasn't Blizzard fixed this again? Or you know, removed Nozdormu until they CAN fix it?

Nozdormu is extremely annoying if you get him from a portal this brawl due to how buggy it seems. I had a druid use nourish at the last second of their turn as they scrambled around and it made me basically have a 3 second turn that lost me the game.

 

[ViviOggi]

Going back to the arena talk earlier, the complaints about "never" getting the op Mage cards and the importance of curve.

This was my most recent Warlock run:

Nothing insanely powerful by itself, just above average minion quality with the occasional stinker. No AoE panic button except for one Shadowflame, which is conditional and I only used it in two games anyway. Comparatively low curve due to the Warlock hero power.

On the other hand, my latest Mage draft:

Whoa, Frostbolt, 2 Flamecannons, 2 Fireballs, Polymorph, Water Ele and 2 Mad Scientists! How lucky!

No, actually due to the outrageously worthless curve I was forced to draft and no draw whatsoever it's the most inconsistent piece of shit I've played in a long time. I just retired it at 2-2 - last time I've done that was over a year ago. I probably could have gotten another 2 or so wins but every single game was such an unbearable slog that the additional non-golden common simply wasn't worth my time (especially as Mage whose vanilla-ness just bores me to death at this point).

So what I'm saying is, don't get too salty over all the op shit your opponents have and how you never get those Fireballs, Flamestrikes or whatever. Good curve, smart play and the ability to accept the occasional bullshit loss and move on is what gets you far in arena.

 

[crazygambit]

Nozdormu is extremely annoying if you get him from a portal this brawl due to how buggy it seems. I had a druid use nourish at the last second of their turn as they scrambled around and it made me basically have a 3 second turn that lost me the game.

Nozdormu is the most bullshit card in the game. Affecting the actual mechanics of the game was a terrible idea, specially on an online game that can be affected by lag. They really need to completely rethink it.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

God I fucking hate freeze mage. If I'm playing casuals and they drop Acolytes of Pain or have Ice Barrier I usually just concede instead of dealing with "LOL I WIPED YOUR ENTIRE BOARD AGAIN XD"

yes I am salty fuck freeze mage

 

[Heropon]

I think Warsong Commander pleases Rexxar. After playing this brawl, I think hunter definitely needs more charge inducers in addition to Tundra Rhino.

 

[georly]

I want a card that's either "Windfury, inspire mega windfury" or "Mega windfury, can't be the target of spells or abilities" and whatever the cost/stats need to be to make those feasible.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I want a card that's either "Windfury, inspire mega windfury" or "Mega windfury, can't be the target of spells or abilities" and whatever the cost/stats need to be to make those feasible.

You would have to be super careful designing anything around Mega Windfury. Voltron is far too unreliable to be a game winner in constructed (but I had marginal success with him in Arena) and I think I would prefer Voltron to be the only mega windfury card. Turning 4 dmg suddenly into 16 dmg is dangerous.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

My god Imp-losion is hitting @ 2 so much these days!!!!

 

[georly]

You would have to be super careful designing anything around Mega Windfury. Voltron is far too unreliable to be a game winner in constructed (but I had marginal success with him in Arena) and I think I would prefer Voltron to be the only mega windfury card. Turning 4 dmg suddenly into 16 dmg is dangerous.

That's the thought process behind my 'cant be targetted' thing, though of course minion buffs would contribute. But, like I said, whatever those stats have to be. like a 1/2 mega windfury or something, if need be. I'd like to see it on at least one other legendary.

 

[Szadek]

I just pulled a nozdormu /lorewalker cho combo in the brawl.
It was amazing.

 

[Dahbomb]

Voltron is such a cool concept for Hearthstone. We need more cards like it in the game.

 

[Raxus]

Not going to lie. I know the card isn't very good but everytime a voltron goes off the little kid inside me screams in glee.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Voltron got 100x cooler when they redid his animation most people will never see

 

[Sneaky Gato]

Is there anyone on that I can spectate for a quest? Quote to reveal name and region tag

 

[Randomizer123454444]

Is there anyone on that I can spectate for a quest? Quote to reveal name and region tag

<removed by me>

Didn't need to quote that to see it

 

[Sneaky Gato]

How about now?