That thread title change.
Where is my daily Kripparrian video? I need Kripp to tell me "how good is the new Warsong?"
Didn't you hear? Kripp died
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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
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Didn't you hear? Kripp died
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It only matters if they care about the way it limits design space. You can argue that most cards limit design space in some way. It doesn't matter unless blizzard wants to actually design in a way that the card limits it.
Plus they've stated that was not the only reason and I was saying it is likely why they nerfed commander in this specific way and not why they decided to nerf it at all.
The day Savage Roar has to be put down wiill be a very good day indeed.
Such an unbelievably bad decision. If their problem is with OTK, the obvious card for the chopping block is Frothing. -1 HP to Frothing would've been a totally reasonable nerf that add a hard limit to the damage Patron Warrrior can do in one turn without breaking everything. As it stands, I'm just gonna bring back my old OTK Warrior with Worgens in and do perfectly fine on ladder.
Warrior is pretty much removed from the game for a lot of players, it was like this before patron was introduced. The deck had the benefit of being cheap to build, no again only limited to control warrior, not many players can afford 10k dust decks. So for most people it's back to paladin, hunter, mage, druid, priest. From those only hunter decks are cheap to build, then maybe tempo mage. Paladin and druid run like 4 epics each. priest is same now and then you have like 3-4 legendary cards. You're deluding yourself if you think this change will make the meta game more diverse. There will be more hunters now I guess as warrior is the worst match up.
Shredder for sure impacted design space because of the 4 drops they introduced in TGT. Many of them were 3 attack 5 health. The few that were 4 health had a powerful effect like Savage Combatant (which can actually deal 3 damage to kill the Shredder main body).
Shredder is still the premiere 4 drop and limits design space even further. They went as far as making a 5 drop card a 4 drop card because they knew they could get away with it because of Shredder (Evil Heckler).
KRIPPARRIAN IS BACK!!!!!
There is no conceivable scenario that makes this new warsong commander a usable card, none. No matter what new card is added the card will forever be trash as it is worse than raid leader now which is less situational.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I didn't say they were adding cards that would synergize with the new warsong commander. I said they would be adding cards that aren't completely broken by the old one. Now they can add 1-3 attack minions that aren't trash because commander made them too good with charge.
Also, just saying, there is always a conceivable scenario that makes the new warsong commander a usable card. Will they likely do it? I have no idea. Probably not. But they could.
Give me the future scenario where it is better than Raid Leader.
No they couldn't.
True. Warsong should now cost 2 mana. Then it could be usable.
Super Nothing
Member
Shredder also has a lot of impact on what 2 drops they can make. They can't make any more 2 drops with negative battle cries because they're absolutely ridiculous when they fall out of a Shredder. Same with 2 mana overload minions. Even Wrathguard isn't that bad when it pops out of a Shredder because it usually only takes 3-4 damage. Meanwhile, it absorbed a card and the Shredder + deathrattle body more than likely traded 2 for 1 if not better.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
"minions played with 3 health gain +3/+3"
Remember, we're talking about conceivable. What could happen, not what will happen.
"All warrior minions in your hand and in play gain charge", or some other buff to all warrior minion cards.
Is it possible, yes anything is. Likely? No.
Plus, even if it is made to be better than raid leader, does that actually matter? Not really. Raid leader is a terrible card.
We have a similar card, warhorse trainer for paladin, your recruits have +1 attack, it's a 3 drop with 2/4 body. No need to say that summoning recruits is way easier than charge minions. yet warsong commander is a 2/3.
And nobody plays warhorse trainer, that's how bad the new warsong is...
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Now that a basic card like warsong can be touched, surely Savage Roar isn't untouchable? that card is utter BS for 3 mana.
And nobody plays warhorse trainer, that's how bad the new warsong is...
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Now that a basic card like warsong can be touched, surely Savage Roar isn't untouchable? that card is utter BS for 3 mana.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
I die a little every time you say things like this : (
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
What, exactly, is interesting about taking 30+ damage from a player in one turn who has no minions on board? I mean, seriously.
I'm glad the prevailing opinion for this game is that interaction between players is fun.
So what's your opinion on Freeze Mage, Face Hunter and Combo Druids then?
Because you are about to see a lot of that in the future.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Freeze mage is still hard countered by warrior. If there is ever a strong freeze mage presence... loatheb, kezan, flare... among other decks and cards that do well against it.
Face hunter... what? Face hunter is incredibly easy to tech against and beat. Come on... nothing wrong with face hunter. Plenty of decks can handle face hunter no problem. It is an interactive deck because it doesn't OTK you. You don't need to be trading to be considered an interactive deck.
Combo druids... we already see this. Nothing is changing here. If anything, people can now counter combo druids a bit better because they can focus slightly more on beating that deck rather than combo druid and patron warrior, which require too very different approaches. Plus tempo mage exists.
Granted, I think freeze mage is pretty scummy, at least they don't often kill you in a single turn and there are strong tech options and decks to counter it.
I mean they still make cool games and you're a cool dude (?) but you can't deny their balancing efforts across the board have been questionable at best (as an employee you may plead the fifth
)It's the decisions you make leading up to it that makes it fun, and the construction of the 30 damage itself.
I don't consider running my Shredder into their Shredder "interesting" or "interactive", and this is the majority of what Hearthstone is when decks like Patron and Miracle don't exist.
You make the most mathematically superior trade at any given time and it's usually so predictable I don't even see the point of playing. The moment two classes show each other their archetypes, you can already see the game unfold and everything afterwards is just symbolic gestures. Occasionally, you roll a dice with Boom Bots or Brawl, but otherwise everything is already set in stone.
Patron is fun because you make meaningful choices. They're meaningful because you know, for certain, when you win it's because you played Slam on turn 2 leaving Fiery Axe available to bait Knife Juggler. Or you lose because you didn't Battle Rage for 2 on turn 6 and tried to go for 4 on turn 7. The deck is made up of synergies, so every card you use to push one synergy is taking pieces from future synergies, and it's the balancing and weighing of which synergies to employ at what time that makes the deck fun unlike any other.
Or you know, you could play Minibot on T2, Muster on T3, Piloted on T4. Hey, at least it's "interactive" right?
T2 Aspirant, T3 Shredder, T4 Druid of the claw, interactive!
T2 Snowchugger, T3 Tinkertown, T4 Shredder, interactive!
T1 Leper, T2 Glaivezooka, T3 Animal Companion, interactive!
T1 Whelp, T2 Wyrmrest, T3 Blackwing Tech, T4 Twilight Guardian, interactive!
irfaanator
Banned
love to see the powerrankings/meta analysis have patron going from tier 1 to tier 4 lol
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
That's fun for one player. Like solitaire. No thanks.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Remember when I posted this
I don't think you deal with that sort of power by a slight nerf.
I will not miss that kind of BS even slightly.
Yep and when the next popular deck is made you can copypasta to balance and weigh which synergies to employ when you run the deck.
Now this is the Great Wall of China....
I don't think you deal with that sort of power by a slight nerf.
I will not miss that kind of BS even slightly.
Yep and when the next popular deck is made you can copypasta to balance and weigh which synergies to employ when you run the deck.
Are games against secret paly even 'interactive'? they don't exactly trade because they want you to do and they flood the board better than you, they go face hoping with MC turn you're low enough to die. With defender you can't really trade anyway, it's not that different from freeze mage actually.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
MC paladin definitely trades. They don't have the burst damage from hand like face hunter. They're more like zoolock where they'll go face when they're ahead enough but they'll trade to ensure they have board control for when they play their game winning cards (MC, doomguard).
Most decks have, at most, 2 or 3 synergies between groups of 2 or 3 cards exclusively.Yep and when the next popular deck is made you can copypasta to balance and weigh which synergies to employ when you run the deck.
They are nothing like Patron where every piece can and often does mesh with every other piece.
The difference is like between an action figure with detachable accessories, and a set of Legos.
Blizzard is so conservative with nerfs, but when they nerf a card they nerf it HARD. Only +1 attack is kind of pathetic.
I wonder if the OTK Worgen deck will come back. That deck didn't have Thaurissan before, so maybe it will just replace Patron.
I wonder if the OTK Worgen deck will come back. That deck didn't have Thaurissan before, so maybe it will just replace Patron.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think they just saw what happened with the back and forth nerfs and buffs of UTH and buzzard, changing like 5 times over the course of the game's history, and decided they'd rather have a card be too weak than potentially still broken.
I think OTK worgen isn't going to be a long term thing because without the charging patrons to stall the game and draw cards off battle rage, the warrior class has a very difficult time putting together those cards. Maybe I am wrong though. But I think that is the reason why raging worgen OTK was never really popular.
Holy shit, they nuked warsong from orbit.
On one hand I kinda get that change since I feel her text was the type of thing that's really hard to design around. On the other hand this nerf is just a complete nullification of a card like starving buzzard(and you're also not going to see patron itself ran), though I do wonder if Math Warrior can be a thing.
Their whole design is pretty weird with this stuff, they take forever to do balance then just go with off the wall stuff like this.
On one hand I kinda get that change since I feel her text was the type of thing that's really hard to design around. On the other hand this nerf is just a complete nullification of a card like starving buzzard(and you're also not going to see patron itself ran), though I do wonder if Math Warrior can be a thing.
Their whole design is pretty weird with this stuff, they take forever to do balance then just go with off the wall stuff like this.
and STILL NO BOOM NERF FUCK
Jesus, now that I'm thinking about it Xmas pally gonna become pure cancer next week in ladder.
Super Nothing
Member
Math Warrior relied on the same finisher, it just didn't have Patrons to clear the board and set up Battle Rage draws. I don't think Frothing + Charge is a good enough substitute. Without charging Patrons provided by Warsong, it also won't have the ability to punch through ridiculous taunt walls and still pull off lethal.
markofhavoc
Member
Whelp, can't wait to see the latter Shakeups
So, there is this deck that is unfun to play against, unfun to watch, and often results in opponents dying to an empty board even though they have high health/armor totals. Here's what Blizzard can do about it:
Why didn't they go with option 3? Who knows. Warsong Commander = shittier Raid Leader now?
They might as well have deleted the card.
- Nothing—leave the deck as is.
- Nuke the deck into obsolescence.
- Adjust the deck to remove problematic aspects while keeping it competitive
Why didn't they go with option 3? Who knows. Warsong Commander = shittier Raid Leader now?
They might as well have deleted the card.
markofhavoc
Member
I don't see why people want it nerfed, its really not that bad and I can work around it quite a lot
Well I mean, you can still do the "spawn a million patrons in the mid game" strategy, but I guess without the frothing/warsong to fall back on, it kills a whole bunch of match ups.
Kinda surprised they didn't do something sooner though. They've been on the record saying they don't like "uninteractive" gameplay when they nerfed the miracle rogue deck, and Patron definitely fit that bill
Kinda surprised they didn't do something sooner though. They've been on the record saying they don't like "uninteractive" gameplay when they nerfed the miracle rogue deck, and Patron definitely fit that bill
Singularity42
Member
Time to buff Grim Patron.
Just another card among many that will never see play.
Just another card among many that will never see play.
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