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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks

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M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
I think this is a very good nerf indeed. I'd rather not have patron warrior at all than have them capable of making clearly broken decks.

I was thinking about this a couple days ago and felt that the best nerf would be to warsong commander oddly enough.

So I just want to point out that we're playing a different game now where control decks have a chance at making an impact. I'm probably going to give control paladin another shot.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
partyphone said:
so is patron. it just requires a lot of adding to figure out if you have lethal. it's a bad deck with no hard counter. good fucking riddance.
Click to expand...

Hardly. Turns 2-5 are very complex for Patron in a way other decks don't even come close to.

It is literally the only deck where it's justified using your entire turn to think over a turn 2 play.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
It's strange because I totally understand them wanting to future-proof the game by not being constricted to considering warsong for every new <4 attack neutral minion they introduce, but at the same time I was under the impression that grim patron was designed purely with the warsong synergy in mind.

I sort of feel bad for all the people believing that this would somehow make ladder more enjoyable, though. The fotm deck that replaces it in the meta will 100% be way more cancerous.
 
C

CoolOff

Member
So, why is it a 2/3 and not a 3/4 now? Is the effect better than Dark Cultists?

That statline would have made fuck all difference for constructed, but done something about the arena-situation. I... just... don't understand.
 
M

mxgt

Banned
And nothing of value was lost

Tournaments just became slightly more interesting to watch

This change came way too late though, is Patron even nearly as popular as it was a few months ago?
 
P

Pooya

Member
RIP patron, Blizzard ever clueless with their nerfs. Like wtf, how they reached that new text exactly? it makes no sense, what charge minion?
Enjoy your snooze fest control warriors I guess where every game goes to fatigue.

Playing patron was some of most fun I had with this game with constant tough decision making, the only comparable deck is oil rogue in how fun it is to play. Warrior is back to being boring again.

Nothing good came out of Buzzard nerf and this will be the same, now enjoy your cancerous secret paladin decks going around even easier than before.

----------------

Anyway just hit 5 finally, by playing effing face hunter and I even got worst match ups, just as I q hunter I get control warrior after control warrior and won every single one.

4 games to 5, patron, secret paly, 2x control warrior. I guess I beat all the bosses. SMORC FTW
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
manhack said:
Reading a bit into this part:



It looks like they are really in a tight spot creating new 3 or less attack minions with Warsong Commander the way it currently stands. So while nerfing Patron was one aspect they can now make really powerful minions with 3 attack and not cause more chaos.
Click to expand...

This seems to be the key issue.

Not surprised as this card hamstrung them on other neutral minions.
 
P

Pooya

Member
Seriously, of all thing they could do, this? I really don't get their nerfs, they either don't do anything or when they do they just completely remove the card from the game. Why on earth anyone would want to play than new warsong ever?

It's beyond awful, your charged minion have +1 attack, ahahaha. There are crap load of cards in the game that give +1 attack to everything not just charge minions. Like raid leader and it cost the same 3 mana, guess what nobody plays that. What exactly was the thought process behind this I have no idea. It's not like warrior has UTH lol.

Meanwhile combo druid charge BS is fine, MC is fine, Dr. Boom is fine. I hope someone grills them over this in some interview and they say something that no doubt won't make any sense.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
People wouldn't have to do 20 damage from the hand if it was at all possible to build up board state without trading super value minions into other super value minions and push pass all the removal every class gets access to.

There was a time you could conceivably play a naked Frothing and hope to get some use out of it, but now it'll get removed instantly and usually wind up negative value for you.

I mean the game is just going to get worse and worse in this direction. More Shredders, more removal to counter the Shredders, better Shredders, better removal.

Hate OTK? Fine. But the alternative is just more Booms, Shredders, and Mad Scientists. If Control becomes a dominant archetype again it'll be because they made more hypervalue control cards (Justicar), and to balance that out they'll need to make more hypervalue aggro/midrange cards (Mysterious Challenger).
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
That nerf is ridicolous. They don't care at all about just removing cards from the game, which is what they did with warsong. They could've made it easily a 3/4 or made it cost 2 to make warrior slightly less terrible in arena and make for a new interesting card to tinker around, instead two cards get essentially removed from the game (warsong and patron which was unusable in anything but patron).

GJ Blizzard with the boringest nerfs imaginable. Pagle and Tinkmaster didn't teach them anything it seems. Meanwhile the game become more and more about stupid stats-underpriced shit which never get nerfed, hello dr. 6, dr. 7 and soon dr. 5 im guess.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
miladesn said:
Seriously, of all thing they could do, this? I really don't get their nerfs, they either don't do anything or when they do they just completely remove the card from the game. Why on earth anyone would want to play than new warsong ever?

It's beyond awful, your charged minion have +1 attack, ahahaha. There are crap load of cards in the game that give +1 attack to everything not just charge minions. Like raid leader and it cost the same 3 mana, guess what nobody plays that. What exactly was the thought process behind this I have no idea. It's not like warrior has UTH lol.

Meanwhile combo druid charge BS is fine, MC is fine, Dr. Boom is fine. I hope someone grills them over this in some interview and they say something that no doubt won't make any sense.
Click to expand...

Does the +1 attack go away if the Warsong is taken out? If so, then you have a point.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Blizzard has always been kinda bad about balancing but Hearthstone is something else. Extremely slow reaction time + utter decimation of entire decks and archetypes via heavy handed nerfs = wtf are you doing?
 
H

homeworkfilms

Member
Still waiting for Dr. Boom to get hit with a nerf. I saw it in a face hunter yesterday. It is viable in any and every deck in this game. I also win with it and lose to it more than any other card.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
homeworkfilms said:
Still waiting for Dr. Boom to get hit with a nerf. I saw it in a face hunter yesterday. It is viable in any and every deck in this game. I also win with it and lose to it more than any other card.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting on Mad Scientist nerfs, but I pretty much gave up on that when they decided MC was a perfectly reasonable card to print
 
M

Miletius

Member
They should have made it so that the minion loses charge if they go over 3 attack. I think that would have made the deck fair. Patron needed a nerf, and I'm glad it had one, but this might be too much.

Onto Force/Roar next? I mean it's not OTK but it's pretty much that every matchup against a druid you basically got to fight to keep yourself over 14 just in case he's got it.
 
P

Pooya

Member
Blizzard definitely doesn't want skill based decks in the game, they rather have RNG non sense or card that out right cheat the rules of the game like ramp or drawing and playing secret. Mad Scientist is reasonable, I don't think it needs a change but MC absolutely must be similarly removed from the game .

edit: reading comments on reddit, people actually aren't happy about this change at all, a bit surprised as that place was just patron hate circle jerk recently. Blizzard is really clueless in balancing this game.


EuropeOG said:
Does the +1 attack go away if the Warsong is taken out? If so, then you have a point.
Click to expand...

the text implies it's aura effect ('have'), previously it was 'give charge', it's pretty much a worse raid leader now with one more health.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
miladesn said:
edit: reading comments on reddit, people actually aren't happy about this change at all, a bit surprised as that place was just patron hate circle jerk recently. Blizzard is really clueless in balancing this game.
Click to expand...

I don't like Patron, but this is a bad nerf.

There were many more interesting ways to nerf it, this is just boring, and now the card is boring and useless.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
That thread title change.


Where is my daily Kripparrian video? I need Kripp to tell me "how good is the new Warsong?"

twitch_emoticon___babyrage_by_centaurman_plz-d8qd8y4.png
twitch_emoticon___babyrage_by_centaurman_plz-d8qd8y4.png
twitch_emoticon___babyrage_by_centaurman_plz-d8qd8y4.png
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Patron certainly took more skill to play then most decks but it ran counter to Blizzard's design practices (that they contradict all the time) plus it was dominant for months as the undisputed #1 deck in the meta and all over tournaments. A nerf would have been fine but this is just an execution.

Edit: It seems like they nerfed it because it would have hampered design space in the future...which is also contradictory since they printed Mad Scientist and Mysterious Challenger!
 
F

FeD.nL

Member
Holy shit. Blizzard doesn't have a delicate way of nerfing it's straight to DEFCON 1 and nuke a deck from orbit. Timing is interesting though before the WC.
 
M

Miletius

Member
irfaanator said:
what I dont know is why did they do this before the blizzard championships
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'd say it's because Patron v Anything is the most boring, non-interactive watch in the history of Hearthstone. It's like watching people play a game of keep away for 20 minutes. In my opinion it's marginally worse than watching control warrior v control warrior.

Not saying I agree with the nerf, but it's pretty much in line with their one turn TKO = bad philosophy.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
irfaanator said:
what I dont know is why did they do this before the blizzard championships
Click to expand...
That's exactly why they did it before the Championships.

They thought TGT would change up the meta enough. It didn't and the qualifiers were basically Handlock/Druid/Patrons which was basically a hint as to what to expect for Blizzcon. That's not a good look for Blizzard so they had to take action.


Also it's not that some people didn't want the Grim Patron nerf... it's that the nerf they finally brought us after so long is utter trash. On top of making an existing deck veer into gimmick territory it has made an existing card utter trash as well. And as stated already, it actually makes Warrior EVEN WORSE in Arena!


I love this community. Blizzard finally kills a deck that needed to die, and they get shit for not killing it more gently.
Click to expand...
Contrast this with the Undertaker nerf which got a just nerf and a nerf that didn't see much complaints from anyone.

The deck didn't need killing, it needed nerfing. That's two different things right there. The deck is pretty cool and allows for some neat combos based around deck synergy. Now it's just straight up gimmick tier deck.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
They approached this nerf the same way they did UT. If you remember, UT was nerfed roughly a month or two after GVG launched, after the new cards they added to address it failed to address it.

Patron clearly needed to be nerfed. I think most agree with that. The way it was nerfed is what some disagree on. But I'd imagine they have a good reason for nerfing it this way. Maybe their testing did not satisfy themselves under other nerfs. And also very likely they intend to now add new cards that would have been broken under warsong commander buffing any minions with charge. Maybe not.

But one thing I feel confident in saying is that the meta will become more diverse, the same way it became really diverse after UT and buzzard were nerfed.

In the case of Warsong Commander, we felt this change was necessary to help expand both future design space and to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling.
Click to expand...
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Now that TGT has mostly shaken out and the top deck has been deleted from the game, retroactively I think the people who wanted stronger cards for TGT were correct in their assessment.

We only got one new really strong meta deck out of TGT, and that's secrets Paladin, mainly on the virtue of one absurdly strong new card. If they introduced a couple more cards of that power level I think the meta had the potential to be much more interesting.
 
P

Pooya

Member
The only way the change makes any sense is money. We completely kill old cards so that you buy our new OP cards and then we nerf those and so on.

What this change does, it removes several cards from meta game. Whirlwind, inner rage, battle rage, grim patron, berserker, unstable ghoul. Of course they don't want you to be competitive with your classic cards and they're done selling BRM now, so yeah have some of that Mysterious Challenger for the time being until next hotness arrives.

Limiting design space? lol you know what really limits that? Piloted Shredder and BGH, awful awful cards for meta game.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Cards that limit design space:

Piloted Shredder
Dr Balanced
Mad Scientist
Mysterious Challenger
Emperor Thaurissan
Savage Roar + FoN
Big Game Hunter


So is Blizzard gonna nerf those cards too?
 
J

JesseZao

Member
call_kotaku said:
Now that TGT has mostly shaken out and the top deck has been deleted from the game, retroactively I think the people who wanted stronger cards for TGT were correct in their assessment.

We only got one new really strong meta deck out of TGT, and that's secrets Paladin, mainly on the virtue of one absurdly strong new card. If they introduced a couple more cards of that power level I think the meta had the potential to be much more interesting.
Click to expand...

Dragon Priest is a fun/strong deck enabled by TGT.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Dahbomb said:
Cards that limit design space:

Piloted Shredder
Dr Balanced
Mad Scientist
Mysterious Challenger
Emperor Thaurissan
Savage Roar + FoN
Big Game Hunter


So is Blizzard gonna nerf those cards too?
Click to expand...

lol no. The design space excuse is the reason they gave but nothing about the cards they print backs that up. Going to have to deal with BGH, Owl, Mad Scientist etc forever.
 
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