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[JoeMartin]

Well that's one way to do it.

Blizzard can take their game where they want to, but I think a more incremental approach would have made patron more tolerable without removing it. I think the easiest way to do it would have been changing changing battle rage to be 3 mana and only draw on damaged minions.

Cheap, synergistic cycle was one of the chief problems with patron, in that they so easily in the course of normal play force drew into their combo. Decreasing the reliability of having combo pieces in hand every game would have done much for its win rate. It's a change that wouldn't really step on anyone's toes either, as no other deck even uses battle rage.

But hey, if that's where we're going I'm still okay with it. Next on the chopping block should be druid combo.

 

[ZeroX03]

Oh good riddance to Warrior. Wasn't enjoying hybrid hunter to deal with them. Back to full face baby.

 

[Tacitus_]

I think they just saw what happened with the back and forth nerfs and buffs of UTH and buzzard, changing like 5 times over the course of the game's history, and decided they'd rather have a card be too weak than potentially still broken.

I think OTK worgen isn't going to be a long term thing because without the charging patrons to stall the game and draw cards off battle rage, the warrior class has a very difficult time putting together those cards. Maybe I am wrong though. But I think that is the reason why raging worgen OTK was never really popular.

You can still use patrons to flood the board for pressure and massive battle rages. Obviously won't be as good as it is now since aoe wipes the board before they can attack. Will still shit over classes that don't have reliable 3dmg aoes.

 

[johnsmith]

I don't see why people want it nerfed, its really not that bad and I can work around it quite a lot

This sounds like a man who's never had his 4 health stealthed shades sniped by boombots.

 

[Onion_Relish]

Does this mean aggro warrior will be more of a thing?

Haha, no, no it won't. RIP in pepperoni commanderoni

 

[markofhavoc]

This sounds like a man who's never had his 4 health stealthed shades sniped by boombots.

Nope, I enjoy priest and I feel like there are a lot of options with them.

 

[Haly]

 

[mxgt]

I have always found CW much more enjoyable than patron tbh. Both to play against and to play with.

 

[Santiako]

On one hand, yay patron is dead.
On the other hand, now ladder is going to be 95% druid and santa D:

 

[Freakinchair]

It's the decisions you make leading up to it that makes it fun, and the construction of the 30 damage itself.

I don't consider running my Shredder into their Shredder "interesting" or "interactive", and this is the majority of what Hearthstone is when decks like Patron and Miracle don't exist.

You make the most mathematically superior trade at any given time and it's usually so predictable I don't even see the point of playing. The moment two classes show each other their archetypes, you can already see the game unfold and everything afterwards is just symbolic gestures. Occasionally, you roll a dice with Boom Bots or Brawl, but otherwise everything is already set in stone.

Patron is fun because you make meaningful choices. They're meaningful because you know, for certain, when you win it's because you played Slam on turn 2 leaving Fiery Axe available to bait Knife Juggler. Or you lose because you didn't Battle Rage for 2 on turn 6 and tried to go for 4 on turn 7. The deck is made up of synergies, so every card you use to push one synergy is taking pieces from future synergies, and it's the balancing and weighing of which synergies to employ at what time that makes the deck fun unlike any other.

Or you know, you could play Minibot on T2, Muster on T3, Piloted on T4. Hey, at least it's "interactive" right?
T2 Aspirant, T3 Shredder, T4 Druid of the claw, interactive!
T2 Snowchugger, T3 Tinkertown, T4 Shredder, interactive!
T1 Leper, T2 Glaivezooka, T3 Animal Companion, interactive!
T1 Whelp, T2 Wyrmrest, T3 Blackwing Tech, T4 Twilight Guardian, interactive!

isnt it the same way with face hunter? You need to decide to push face (always) or trade minions... every trade lessens the amount of damage you do to face and so you need to think really hard on what tradeoffs you want to make.

 

[Haly]

I actually don't think Face Hunter is as mindless as this thread likes to paint them, but still not close to Patron. Winning or losing was often a razor thin difference in play order. People are predisposed to only seeing the huge numbers on the final turn, rather than the choices being made on the way there, and they're even less likely to consider what the opponent went through.

It's just "wow I got bursted from 15-20 GG BLIZZARD BALANCE OSFROG".

Now, Eboladin. That shit was mindless.

 

[Majine]

Kripp has made 500 daily videos in a row, and the only thing that stopped that streak was getting super sick in the Maldives while casting a tournament.

I really like his dedication.

 

[Raxus]

On one hand, yay patron is dead.
On the other hand, now ladder is going to be 95% druid and santa D:

You should have proposed more rational changes. Have fun witch cancer you guys because Patron was the one thing stopping it. Rush decks 4 lyfe.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Why are people saying patron warrior was the one thing that held back aggro decks? Did dragon priest disappear? Did anti-aggro tech choices like zombie chow disappear? Is control warrior gone? I could deal with aggro decks while my deck was geared to succeed against OP stuff like patron warrior, imagine what you can do when you don't have to twist your deck to deal with patron warrior.

I can now run unstable ghoul in control paladin, because I don't have to be afraid of making patrons go wilder or enable bigger frothing berserker combos. I can run unstable ghouls in control warrior as well, without that fear. I can run 2 attack minions like deathlord and not worry about giving my opponent 3 extra patrons.

It is natural to look at the meta now and try to figure out what the top dog is when you remove patron warrior from the equation. But you're forgetting to add all the decks that might be good or even great with the exclusion of patron warrior.

 

[Pooya]

Even now SMOrc is the best most time efficient way to rank up, it's going to get even better. I'm kinda ok with that, miss my face paly deck, it hasn't been all that good since tgt and right now seems dragon priest craze has died down, it should be good again.

 

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Jesus they destroyed Warsong.

Why not just make 3 and under attack minions only have charge? Would have weakened the deck significantly, but still would have made it viable. Oh well, CW was always my favorite anyway.

 

[irfaanator]

maybe they didnt want to/couldnt code in to check every time a minion goes above 3 attack for warsong. That's the only way I can see them not nerfing it like that

 

[Papercuts]

I don't see why people want it nerfed, its really not that bad and I can work around it quite a lot

I had a 5/5 and a 4/4 stealthed shade killed by boom into whirlwind.

The match after I fought a mage with a board of 4/4 drake, 2/2 flamewaker, 3/2 apprentice. He fireballed my boom and the pings hit both bots. They both hit face for 1. He pinged boom.

He swings and decides games on a whim and generally one person is unhappy when the bot rolls are determined. A game he decides usually makes me just close the game for the day since he's the mix of being OP as fuck with downright idiotic rng variance, he's an unbelievably terribly designed card that actively makes hearthstone a worse game each day he continues to exist in his current form.

 

[clav]

It's the decisions you make leading up to it that makes it fun, and the construction of the 30 damage itself.

I don't consider running my Shredder into their Shredder "interesting" or "interactive", and this is the majority of what Hearthstone is when decks like Patron and Miracle don't exist.

You make the most mathematically superior trade at any given time and it's usually so predictable I don't even see the point of playing. The moment two classes show each other their archetypes, you can already see the game unfold and everything afterwards is just symbolic gestures. Occasionally, you roll a dice with Boom Bots or Brawl, but otherwise everything is already set in stone.

Patron is fun because you make meaningful choices. They're meaningful because you know, for certain, when you win it's because you played Slam on turn 2 leaving Fiery Axe available to bait Knife Juggler. Or you lose because you didn't Battle Rage for 2 on turn 6 and tried to go for 4 on turn 7. The deck is made up of synergies, so every card you use to push one synergy is taking pieces from future synergies, and it's the balancing and weighing of which synergies to employ at what time that makes the deck fun unlike any other.

Or you know, you could play Minibot on T2, Muster on T3, Piloted on T4. Hey, at least it's "interactive" right?
T2 Aspirant, T3 Shredder, T4 Druid of the claw, interactive!
T2 Snowchugger, T3 Tinkertown, T4 Shredder, interactive!
T1 Leper, T2 Glaivezooka, T3 Animal Companion, interactive!
T1 Whelp, T2 Wyrmrest, T3 Blackwing Tech, T4 Twilight Guardian, interactive!

Stop. Just stop.

People don't want to understand what's interactive. They just want to win just by putting stuff on the board and then cry when it doesn't work because they don't like playing decks that require thinking. Put down balanced cards on curve and emote constantly.

 

[Pooya]

Boombots are fine, RNG increases skill. Kappa

So many games were decided by boombots in hearthstone championship.

edit: lol Otskaka,

 

[sibarraz]

The problem with patron is that requires thought for mostly the player that plays it, the other deck has to pray to win before turn 7 or that he doesn't had an emperor thaurissan in hand

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Stop. Just stop.

People don't want to understand what's interactive. They just want to win just by putting stuff on the board and then cry when it doesn't work because they don't like playing decks that require thinking. Put down balanced cards on curve and emote constantly.

Your doctor should probably advise you to cut back on the salt.

 

[squidyj]

people like to pretend that they arent interacting with the patron player all game. denying draws, forcing a poor use of resources. there are all sorts of tactics that you use to interact with a patron player. the fact that it's not represented in board presence is a bullshit excuse.

If you think combo just happens and you're not interacting you're just not using your brain when you play. That's one of the things I hate about this, is it validates plays and players that ignore or can't see the other levels of play that are going on in the game. It seeks to simplify the game down to a single formula that you can apply each turn and then win all the games.

 

[EmiPrime]

I hate patron warrior, especially the OTKs with frothing but that nerf is a bit too hard.

Knocking off 1HP from patron and frothing or maybe just stop frothing from getting the charge effect once it reaches 4 attack would have been enough.

 

[Draft]

Having the perfect curve is part of a card game. Sometimes you are the mouse and the other guy is the cheese. Decks are built around the curve but are not guaranteed to get those perfect 2 3 4 drops. Patron barely acknowledges the curve. It doesn't matter what turn it is. Eliminate, armor up, draw cards, OTK. Patron is not easy to do right. Many of the complaints about Patron are salt. But I support removing the Frothing combo. It was too hard to counter because Hearthstone is a game about minions killing other minions. Hurp a durp my minions go kill minions yay minions. That's why the people pay their money.

This nerf tho :lol. As a Starcraft player Blizzard's glacial approach to balance and design changes can be maddening. I should count my lucky stars they take as long as they do with a nerf philosophy like this! All minions with 3 or less attack have charge, and then lose it if they go above 3 attack. Frothing has 2 HP so it can only survive one whirlwind.

My opening paragraph goes into why Patron is an annoying deck in a game like Hearthstone, but it's an undeniably cool deck. Players poking a game and discovering a new and powerful way to exploit mechanics is what makes multiplayer games great. Ben Brode is not fucking around when he finally wakes up and realizes a deck is too powerful.

 

[EmiPrime]

holy shit

source

 

[Officerrob]

They absolutely destroyed Patron Warrior. There were numerous better ways to handle Patron, but they just decided to nuke it, pretty ridiculous

 

[Haunted]

Warsong Nerf announced:

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/19288409377



Holy SHEEET

woah

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

holy shit

source

She went to a better place. A place where all cards are the star of the deck. A place where you always draw the right answer when you need it. Where the meta never changes. Always lucky.

 

[Majine]

holy shit

source

Cruel taskmaster to pay respect.

 

[Haunted]

This heavy change removes like four-five cards from the competitive scene altogether. You're not going to see Patrons, Frothings, Battle Rages and of course, Warsong anywhere.

I think the changes others have discussed in the past would have weakened the deck by removing the 1 Turn KO 50+ dmg combo aspect of it while still keeping it viable through Patron board control. This is the nuclear option.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Funny that the deck was called Patron Warrior when not long after it started getting popular it became clear that Warsong Commander/Emperor/Frothing Berserkers/Battle Rage and maybe even Death's Bite were more important to the deck then Patron.

Most of the time I died via Frothing Berserker + Death's Bite with one hit to the face.

 

[squidyj]

remember when undertaker was a card that saw play in competitive decks?
I miss my undertaker priest

 

[johnsmith]

remember when undertaker was a card that saw play in competitive decks?
I miss my undertaker priest

Dragon priest is almost as good though. Almost identical play style.

 

[Haly]

Funny that the deck was called Patron Warrior when not long after it started getting popular it became clear that Warsong Commander/Emperor/Frothing Berserkers/Battle Rage and maybe even Death's Bite were more important to the deck then Patron.

Most of the time I died via Frothing Berserker + Death's Bite with one hit to the face.

The win con is not the deck, just like druid decks aren't "Force Roar Druid" or Freeze Mage isn't "Antonidas/Alex Mage".

The defining part of a deck is the glue that holds it together. Miracle Rogue. Patron Warrior. Freeze Mage. Fast Druid. They're not named after their winning turn play, but the strategy they use to get there.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Decks aren't named that logically. But they are very often named by what sets them apart. Patron is the thing that set it apart from a regular combo or "math" (stupid name) warrior.

Oil rogue is named after the sole rogue gvg card in the deck, although if you called it combo rogue people would know exactly what you are talking about even though some forms of oil rogue rely less on combos from hand and more on combos in conjunction with pre-existing board.

 

[Papercuts]

I still cringe when I hear undertaker get played. I have no idea how the original version of that was ever a thing.

 

[Pooya]

undertaker still lives through secretkeeper

 

[johnsmith]

I still cringe when I hear undertaker get played. I have no idea how the original version of that was ever a thing.

Do you mean how blizzard didn't realize it was op when designing it?

 

[Ultrabum]

So is secret paladin going to be the new patron deck?

Seems pretty good now that patron is gone. Also seems easy to play, like undertaker hunter was.

 

[Dahbomb]

holy shit

source

Rest in pepperoni.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Actually could have beat this bullshit 13 attack secret keeper curve but the secrets took too damn long to go off and I lost...

 

[Saprol]

wow patron is super dead. i dont have the dust to play control

 

[Drkirby]

While Warsong is likely the right choice to nerf, it now feels far to weak. Should only be 2 mana.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

While Warsong is likely the right choice to nerf, it now feels far to weak.

Good. I was just OTK'd for 30+ damage even though I only had 2 minions on board. Shit needs to go out and be shot in the back while it digs its own grave.

Not even an ET set up.

 

[caesar]

Rather play 1000 games vs patron than this secretdin bullshit which requires headbutting your keyboard to win.

 

[Celegus]

Bye Patron, certainly won't be missing you!

 

[Mulgrok]

Interacting with secrets is way more interesting than praying the warrior doesn't OTK when I have lethal next turn. Preventing Warrior card draw usually just causes the game to drag on long enough for them to draw into combo anyway.

 

[WesternHeretic]

Interacting with secrets is way more interesting than praying the warrior doesn't OTK when I have lethal next turn. Preventing Warrior card draw usually just causes the game to drag on long enough for them to draw into combo anyway.

Yea and all the secrets is known too so nothing to surprise you there. And the Paladin secrets are a lot easier to play around then let say Mage where you can't even drop or play a spell at times. It's pretty much like the days of Face Hunter. You know what they are you just have to make the best possible play around them. Waste your crappy minions on the noble sacrifice, don't drop anything big for repentance, and don't let him get something big from redemption.

As far as avenge go well you can't control that one....

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Reynad is playing a zoolock deck with tiny knight, wrathguard, and dark bagain...


New cards galore!