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[ZealousD]

That does not make it a consistent card. The cost of the card is by definition inconsistent and most decks aren't going to let your stuff survive for you to even trade in to get a cheap 2 draw.

Sometimes it is really powerful. Sometimes it is a dead card in your hand for the majority of the game. That is definitely not consistent.

If you're running double equality it is much easier to clear your opponent's board and get a huge discount off of it. Plus Control decks often don't have perfect mana utilization throughout the entire game so paying 4 or 5 mana for the cards is often not that big of a deal.

And keep in mind I'm comparing it to Acolyte of Pain, here. People run acolyte because they want two or more cards off of it. That is not always easy to do with Paladin. Especially if you aren't running a copy of Humility. You give me a choice between Acolyte and Solemn Vigil and I'll pick Solemn Vigil every time.

 

[Dahbomb]

I definitely wouldn't run two Solemn Vigils though unless it's a gimmicky Token-ish Paladin deck that also runs crap like Volcanic Drake for the lulz.

 

[squidyj]

That is how my 3rd losses in arena usually go. Draw the 3 highest cost cards in my deck, mulligan into the next 3 highest.

this is how I drop from 2 stars rank 2 to rank fucking 4, i'm getting real fucking sick of drawing so consistently worse than my opponents.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I didn't say it was in general a consistent card, I said it was more consistent in getting you the amount of card draws you want over Acolyte. You will always get 2 cards from it.

Usually in Paladin Acolyte only draws only one card as Paladins lack the self damaging tool that something like Mage or Warrior does (where Acolyte is excellent). Sometimes it can draw 2 cards and sometimes it can draw 0 cards if it gets Silenced. IMO for Paladins it's worse than using Gnomish Inventor and Solemn Vigil.

I'm pretty sure getting acolyte silenced rather than your tirion is a great thing. Acolyte doesn't need self damage. Self damage is not necessarily a good thing either.

Good luck running solemn vigil in an aggro meta, cause that thing is going to be a dead card in your hand, reducing your options. Acolyte hits the board and it is at least a minion. If it draws once, that is okay because it already got value out of being a minion.

Anyway, in terms of the list, on a card per card basis, it looks fine. I can't say that for the whole composition, it looks awkwardly curved out tbh. But the cards individually are okay with the exception that azure drake is an odd choice. I've run lists like it before but with a better mid game.

 

[ricelord]

playing control warrior, get hunter matchup, get some shitty starting hand and aggressively mulligan.

new starting hand is ysera, grom, alex.

why does this shit keep happening to me?

hmm just had game with a face hunter and i had nothing but weapons in my hand. i was still salty when i was down to 18 hp by turn 4

Spoiler

top deck nothing but taunts and shields blocks, bash and shieldmaiden to win game.

 

[ZealousD]

I definitely wouldn't run two Solemn Vigils though unless it's a gimmicky Token-ish Paladin deck that also runs crap like Volcanic Drake for the lulz.

Given the choice between two Solemn Vigils and two Acolytes of Pain, I'd pick the two Solemn Vigils, though. I wouldn't do anything like 1x Solemn Vigil and 1x Acolyte of Pain.

That said I don't think Control Paladin is particularly strong in this current meta anyway. It doesn't pretty well against handlock and control warrior but that's about it. If you're gonna play Paladin you might as well just play Secret Santa. Shit's ridiculous.

 

[ZealousD]

Good luck running solemn vigil in an aggro meta, cause that thing is going to be a dead card in your hand, reducing your options. Acolyte hits the board and it is at least a minion. If it draws once, that is okay because it already got value out of being a minion.

This is not an aggro meta. Of the 13 decks in the current meta snapshot, only like 3 and a half of the decks can reliably be called aggro. Only half of the secret Paladin decks are aggro. The other half are tempo. Then you got aggro druid, face hunter, mech mage.... and that's about it for the aggro decks.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Switched to midrange Druid, instant winstreak. None of them close and all of them won with 20+ damage combos.

Shit's broken.

 

[poppedcollar69]

Sylvanas no doubt.

alright, i did it

i felt like justicar would have been more fun to mess with, but i got mad after losing a bunch with my warrior deck and rage crafted syl

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

This is not an aggro meta. Of the 13 decks in the current meta snapshot, only like 3 and a half of the decks can reliably be called aggro. Only half of the secret Paladin decks are aggro. The other half are tempo. Then you got aggro druid, face hunter, mech mage.... and that's about it for the aggro decks.

Lol wut? Whatever you call the deck archetype, decks are very aggressive in this meta.

When you're not in control of the game, solemn vigil is not an extra option, it makes other options perhaps slightly better if it fills out your curve. I don't know what game you're playing if you don't think we're in an aggressive meta. And with patron war being nerfed, it is completely possible that the meta will become even more tempo and more aggro oriented.

And you wanna talk about tempo decks, as if solemn vigil is magically better versus them. Well, it isn't.

The card is great when you're already winning. Usually bad when you aren't.

edit:
Hell, it is probably worse against tempo mage than any (draw) card I can think of. They're going to be clearing your board every turn. At least acolyte is going to make them clear it awkwardly. Seriously... solemn vigil in this meta is pretty stupid.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah I don't know about separating decks into tempo and aggro like that.

Casino Mage is a "tempo" deck but it's still basically an aggro deck. It plays minions on curve and tries to finish the game as fast as possible.

The meta in its current state is very aggressive especially on Ladder. Most of the Secret Paladin decks you see online want to finish the game around the time MC is played. Druids want to finish it by turn 9. With Patron gone, you will see stuff like Zoolock return which while being labelled as a "tempo" deck is still very aggressive.

Druids are playing aggressively, Paladins are playing aggressively, Hunters always play aggressively, Mages are playing aggressively. Warrior/Rogue only have one playable archetype now and Priest/Shaman aren't really fairing all that great (aside from the Dragon Priest deck which is also a tempo based deck). Warlocks will probably go back to playing aggressively with Zoolock once Patron is out for good.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Yeah I don't know about separating decks into tempo and aggro.

Casino Mage is a "tempo" deck but it's still basically an aggro deck. It plays minions on curve and tries to finish the game as fast as possible.

The meta in its current state is very aggressive especially on Ladder. Most of the Secret Paladin decks you see online want to finish the game around the time MC is played. Druids want to finish it by turn 9. With Patron gone, you will see stuff like Zoolock return which while being labelled as a "tempo" deck is still very aggressive.

For the purposes of whether solemn vigil is good or not, tempo may as well be called aggro.

I want solemn vigil to be a good card. It just happens to suck hard.

 

[Dahbomb]

I would agree that if you are trying to play the aggro/tempo game then Vigil isn't a good card. But it's purpose is in a deck which can clear the boards and take advantage of the effect. I don't really agree that the card sucks hard.

Arcane Intellect is a bad tempo card, obviously it is but it will still get used in Freeze Mage despite an aggressive meta.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I would agree that if you are trying to play the aggro/tempo game then Vigil isn't a good card. But it's purpose is in a deck which can clear the boards and take advantage of the effect. I don't really agree that the card sucks hard.

Arcane Intellect is a bad tempo card, obviously it is but it will still get used in Freeze Mage despite an aggressive meta.

If solemn vigil was a flat 3 mana, basically if paladin got arcane intellect, it still wouldn't be as good in paladin as it is in tempo mage because of all the synergy cards mage runs with spells.

 

[Dahbomb]

If solemn vigil was a flat 3 mana, basically if paladin got arcane intellect, it still wouldn't be as good in paladin as it is in tempo mage because of all the synergy cards mage runs with spells.

Now that's a different argument altogether (not that I would disagree). Also Tempo Mage isn't the only Mage deck to run Arcane Intellect.

 

[ZealousD]

Casino Mage is a "tempo" deck but it's still basically an aggro deck. It plays minions on curve and tries to finish the game as fast as possible.

I don't think I really agree. The way I approach the question of aggro/tempo/midrange/control is to look at the curve and ask myself "where on the curve are my win conditions? What enables me to win the game? Where are my key threats?"

If I point to cards in the 1/2/3-mana range, then it's an aggro deck.
If I point to cards in the 3/4/5-mana range, then it's a midrange deck.
If I point to cards in the 6+-mana range, then it's a control deck.
If my threats exist across the entire curve continuum from 1/2 mana up until 6+ mana, then it's a tempo deck.
If I basically play no threats until some 3+ multi-card combination with an explosive ending then I am a combo deck.

Tempo Mage plays threats on every turn but it plays it slower than any aggro deck playing deck-defiing threats at 1/2 mana. It's even slower than zoo, for example, which is one of the aggro decks that is notable for making trades when it can. It is only aggressive against midrange and control decks.

For the purposes of whether solemn vigil is good or not, tempo may as well be called aggro.

I want solemn vigil to be a good card. It just happens to suck hard.

You don't put Solemn Vigil in aggro or tempo. You put it in control. Again, it's a replacement for acolyte of pain. Nobody puts acolytes in aggro pally decks. Divine Favor is waaaay better there. The only reason solemn vigil doesn't see much play is because control paladin just sucks hard in this current meta.

 

[ricelord]

Switched to midrange Druid, instant winstreak. None of them close and all of them won with 20+ damage combos.

Shit's broken.

 

[Dahbomb]

The way I look at it is that I see where a deck on average finishes its games (or at least the point where the win is inevitable).

There was a nice chart that showed this well.


Decks that finish the game (or are well capable of finishing it) by turn 5/6/7 are aggro decks IMO.

Decks that finish the game by turn 9/10 are usually in the more Midrange/Tempo category. This is where something like the Druid lies although one can also argue that it's a combo deck (yea boy).

Decks that tend to finish the game beyond turn 10 I would say are either Control decks or Combo decks. Certainly they need the tools to stall to get to that stage of the game.


Just because Tempo Mage doesn't flood the board with cheap minions doesn't mean that it isn't easily capable of finishing the game by turn 7.


So when people say the meta is "aggressive" they basically mean that it's dominated by aggro + tempo decks with some midrange decks thrown in as well and games can be finished rather quickly (ie. before big non Dr Balanced threats get put down). And against those decks you have to think twice about playing a slow (but high value) card because you can just be steamrolled out of the game.

If the meta was slower then you would see more 8 mana or higher Legendaries. You would see more Ragnaros and Ysera but instead a lot of decks top out at 7 mana Dr Balanced.

 

[ViviOggi]

tfw you want to Hearthstone and chill but only Massan is on

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

You don't put Solemn Vigil in aggro or tempo. You put it in control. Again, it's a replacement for acolyte of pain. Nobody puts acolytes in aggro pally decks. Divine Favor is waaaay better there. The only reason solemn vigil doesn't see much play is because control paladin just sucks hard in this current meta.

I never said anything about putting solemn vigil in aggro or tempo, but putting it in your deck when you face these decks...

It is still a trash card in control paladin though. I've tried it, many times. It was easily the most inconsistent card in the deck. Deck thinning isn't even exactly a problem with control paladin. The problem with control paladin is that it can't wrap up a match.

I love control paladin, I played quite a few games with it tonight. I hit legend with it in GVG. Solemn vigil was a card I thought would be good. Turns out it is just not that good. I've accepted that.

If you look at a lot of win more cards, cards that are definitely great when you're ahead, that are actually played, they're not terrible when you're behind. Solemn vigil just happens to be a win more card that is terrible when you're behind. And it isn't even necessarily a home run slam when you're ahead. Even a 3 mana solemn vigil is not good. It is not even as good as arcane intellect is on an average draw because you must trade or spend mana or other actions for it to get there. Meanwhile the mage can arcane intellect, draw fireball and win the game.

Quartermaster is a perfect example for paladin. The card is amazing when you're ahead because you actually get to push for a ton of damage or high value trades. But when you're behind, you can still at least muster + QM and summon a lot of value off that combo. That is often slow to have an impact, but at least it is not terrible.

 

[Dahbomb]

The problem with control paladin is that it can't wrap up a match.

And bingo was his name-o.

Dare I say that any deck that has trouble finishing a match when it's ahead will pretty much never be a top tier deck in Hearthstone. Too many decks with so much burst potential that they can squeeze out a win if you give them some time (like Druid and Freeze Mage).

Decks have become too efficient these days with solid win conditions. Even the prototypical control deck of Hearthstone the Control Warrior has a powerful win condition in the form of Alex + Grommash.


What's missing from Paladin for Solemn Vigil to be an excellent card is if there's a combo oriented Paladin deck. A win condition that Paladins can search for then put together to finish the game. That way Paladins can control the board with their Equalities/Consecrates while also drawing cards with Vigil into their win condition. As stated before... Mages can Arcane Intellect into Fireball... what is Paladin going to Vigil into that will finish a game quick for them?

 

[WesternHeretic]

tfw you want to Hearthstone and chill but only Massan is on

I can't stand that guy either. He just fucking weird. I mean most pro streamers are weird anyways cause these guys don't do shit but sit at home and play games all day, but he's an extra kind of weird.

 

[Trigger_happy]

Massan is the worst.

 

[squidyj]

tfw you want to Hearthstone and chill but only Massan is on

wow no love for ryzen, savjz, zalae, justsaiyan or my personal hero, Neviilz, who has had to overcome being Maltese, a truly tragic condition BibleThump.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Ryzen the rogue hero is great. I don't get the hate for massan though lol. He is also great.

 

[Haly]

Kibler is the only one worth following. He plays silly decks all the time and has fun and cosplays as his spirit lizard.

 

[irfaanator]

wow no love for ryzen, savjz, justsaiyan or my personal hero, Neviilz, who has had to overcome being Maltese, a truly tragic condition BibleThump.

Ryzen the rogue hero is great. I don't get the hate for massan though lol. He is also great.

yea ryzen is my late night chill go to stream

 

[WesternHeretic]

Kibler is the only one worth following. He plays silly decks all the time and has fun and cosplays as his spirit lizard.

He seems the most normal out of all these streamers. I have never actually watch him stream but I watched him in that 3v3 tournament on team value town. He seems really likable compare to all the other guys.

 

[Haly]

It's because he's a god damn adult whereas every other pro is a manchild.

 

[ViviOggi]

wow no love for ryzen, savjz, zalae, justsaiyan or my personal hero, Neviilz, who has had to overcome being Maltese, a truly tragic condition BibleThump.

Nono it's just a feel I remembered because someone mentioned Massan. Savjz the god also how could I forget Brian "Brian Kibler" Kibler of Brian Kibler Gaming

It's because he's a god damn adult whereas every other pro is a manchild.

Wifecoach though

 

[Haly]

Lifecoach is an owl he doesn't count.

 

[ViviOggi]

Ryzen the rogue hero is great. I don't get the hate for massan though lol. He is also great.

He's just supremely awkward, I cringe every time

 

[Kotetsu534]

I always catch up on Adwcta's and Merps' Arena Coops. By far my favourite Hearthstone stream. They have a good dynamic together, and are knowledgeable and intelligent. I like Kibler's articles too, so I'm sure he's a decent stream to watch too.

 

[markofhavoc]

up too late but needed to finish this arena run. 12-1, 490 gold and an crusade pack (40 dust)

rogue is so good in arena

 

[Pooya]

Switched to midrange Druid, instant winstreak. None of them close and all of them won with 20+ damage combos.

Shit's broken.

Druid is the only class now that excels very well in both board presence and burst damage while others are just decent in both or great in one. It's the best class.

What made patron warrior great wasn't just burst, patrons were insane for board control too. No other class comes close now.

Rogue has only burst potential, which compared with druid isn't even all that great but you can out tempo your opponent and have a small window to finish the game.

Paladin only has board presence, zero burst.

Mage is average in both burst and board presence but still has both which makes the class always at least decent. Same is true for warlock, it will be always in a good spot, nothing broken nothing under powered.

Warrior can only play defensively, just one card for burst potential doesn't really count.

Priest has bad burst, inner fire or face priest with mind blast lol, it's gimmick but they can still have good board presence with bulky minions.

Hunter has just burst. You don't want to trade with your highmanes even.

Shaman has tons of burst and board presence potential, it's probably why Blizzard is scared to make it really powerful. Shaman can potentially be very broken with one or two cards like Aspirant and Emperor have done it for druids.

So yeah Force Roar probably needs some adjustments now, it was fine in classic set but now with combination of other cards namely aspirant, there is too much consistent ramp. It's fine for a ramp class that plays big stuff, they don't need stupid burst damage now to be good.

 

[WesternHeretic]

I just started playing HS for about 2-3 months now, but I went back and watch last year Blizzard world championship and Firebat just face rolled the finals with Druid combo.

 

[Xanathus]

I just started playing HS for about 2-3 months now, but I went back and watch last year Blizzard world championship and Firebat just face rolled the finals with Druid combo.

I vaguely recall Miracle Rogue doing some work for him in maybe the semi-finals but the funny thing was that he didn't even use Gadgetzan, just got a big Van Cleef on turn 2 or 3 and that just won the game.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I think I'll be trying a new rogue deck soon, I am thinking somewhere along the lines of cutpurse, shade of naxx, cold light oracles, cold blood...

I used to love this rogue deck that took maybe a 1 minion advantage, dropped loatheb, hit cold blood, and basically won the game around turn 5-6 off of getting two cold blood hits plus loatheb smashing face. I haven't really played it since gvg came out though. Gonna have to figure out the new cards for it. Maybe beneath the grounds.

 

[Raytow]

Savjz is running a 5k goal counter *sadface*

 

[Zoggy]

dragon priest is so annoying

HOW MANY DRAGONS CAN YOU HAVE!?!?!

 

[zoukka]

Paladin needs a nerf. Either MC or Divine Favour I don't care which.

Fucking Blizzard always nerfing skill based decks like Miracle and Patron then leaving diarrhea like Boom and MC behind... incompetent hacks.

It's because he's a god damn adult whereas every other pro is a manchild.

Lifecoach bro

 

[johnsmith]

dragon priest is so annoying

HOW MANY DRAGONS CAN YOU HAVE!?!?!

All of them

 

[Haunted]

dragon priest is so annoying

HOW MANY DRAGONS CAN YOU HAVE!?!?!

Wouldn't be dragon priest without dragons.

 

[Zoggy]

also warsong commander shouldn't be the pic for rank 12 anymore.

 

[Raytow]

What would it be more fun/doable in ladder Echomage or Malymage?

 

[toddhunter]

What would it be more fun/doable in ladder Echomage or Malymage?

I think echomage sucks slightly less and is more annoying to play against...hence it is probably more fun. Maylmage needs to burn spells to survive, which means it just doesn't work.

As for druid combo, I actually think it is fine at the moment. I think Druid is in a good place and other classes just need a few more tools.

 

[bjaelke]

also warsong commander shouldn't be the pic for rank 12 anymore.

There are a lot of questionable picks in there. Warlord at 8? Could probably do with a revised list including pictures from the latest expansions/adventures (Frost Giant).

 

[SonicXtreme]

Is sylvannas really that good? Just seems so easy to silence or play around, idk. Only leggys I have are crafted boom and pulled ysera and malygos.

Honestly I'm leaning towards getting antonidas with my dust, since he would flip Mage from boring to making a casino build I'd find very fun. Do any decks run maly archmage and ysera lol or any combination of two of those (with thaus obviously)? I don't own all the cards anyway so almost any high tier deck I'd have to make replacements. I have enough to make archmage worth it tho

 

[Bboy AJ]

Why the massan hate?

 

[The_Poet]

Is sylvannas really that good? Just seems so easy to silence or play around, idk. Only leggys I have are crafted boom and pulled ysera and malygos.

Honestly I'm leaning towards getting antonidas with my dust, since he would flip Mage from boring to making a casino build I'd find very fun. Do any decks run maly archmage and ysera lol or any combination of two of those (with thaus obviously)? I don't own all the cards anyway so almost any high tier deck I'd have to make replacements. I have enough to make archmage worth it tho

Mechmage used Antonidas as one of its win conditions, its also a very good deck