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[Dahbomb]

I am very skeptical of Jousting actually working.

Many aggro decks also run Dr Balanced. You can try to play your powerful Jousting card and then Dr Balanced gets revealed on their side and you get crushed. This is especially true for that 5/5 heal 7 card... if you need a clutch heal then this card could backfire because it shows a Highmane or a Dr Balanced.


It's fucking hilarious to me that Dr Balanced actually holds back Joust from working well against aggro.


Someone stated that Aviana enables an OTK combo with Druid:

Aviana on turn 10 - Innervate - Malygos - Double Faceless Manipulator - Double Moonfire


LULZ!

 

[Super Nothing]

I am very skeptical of Jousting actually working.

Many aggro decks also run Dr Balanced. You can try to play your powerful Jousting card and then Dr Balanced gets revealed on their side and you get crushed. This is especially true for that 5/5 heal 7 card... if you need a clutch heal then this card could backfire because it shows a Highmane or a Dr Balanced.


It's fucking hilarious to me that Dr Balanced actually holds back Joust from working well against aggro.

The average aggro deck is going to have lower cost cards than the average midrange or control deck. Jousting will favor the slower decks over a large sample of games played, even if you lose the occasional game because of a failed joust where they pull Dr. Balance.

 

[Ultrabum]

I don't trust any card evaluations before they are played in actual games. Because Trump also thought that Dr. Boom wasn't anything special when it was revealed.

That's only because we didn't have the text for the boombots. Everyone assumed they would hit your minions.

 

[JesseZao]

I am very skeptical of Jousting actually working.

Many aggro decks also run Dr Balanced. You can try to play your powerful Jousting card and then Dr Balanced gets revealed on their side and you get crushed. This is especially true for that 5/5 heal 7 card... if you need a clutch heal then this card could backfire because it shows a Highmane or a Dr Balanced.


It's fucking hilarious to me that Dr Balanced actually holds back Joust from working well against aggro.


Someone stated that Aviana enables an OTK combo with Druid:

Aviana on turn 10 - Innervate - Malygos - Double Faceless Manipulator - Double Moonfire


LULZ!

So they have 1-3 chances of revealing a high cost card vs your control deck that is full of higher costs. The odds are in your favor?

 

[Dahbomb]

A Control deck needs some small minions as well. Those Zombie Chows, Armor Smiths, Ancient Watchers, Sunfury Protectors, Aldor Peacekeepers etc.

You can't just have your minion curve start at 5 mana... that pretty much never works.


Yes you are favored to win the coin toss but it can still mess you up. And you are punished hard for messing up because those cards are pretty bad against aggro when they fail.


Jousting can easily shutdown the super face aggro decks that basically cap out at 3 mana (Face Hunter) but those decks are already falling out of favor and making way for Midrange Hunter type decks (or Midrange Zoolock). Against those decks Jousting is still a risk.

 

[JesseZao]

A Control deck needs some small minions as well. Those Zombie Chows, Armor Smiths, Ancient Watchers, Sunfury Protectors etc.

You can't just have your minion curve start at 5 mana... that pretty much never works.


Yes you are favored to win the coin toss but it can still mess you up. And you are punished hard for messing up because those cards are pretty bad against aggro when they fail.

Hearthstone isn't a purely deterministic game. You take calculated risks to make the best play.

 

[Kornflayx]

That's only because we didn't have the text for the boombots. Everyone assumed they would hit your minions.

Oh, that wasn't known back then? OK I take that back then

 

[BananasWithGuns]

I don't know how good joust will be but I know I'll be doing a lot of experimentation with Gadgetzan Jouster when the expansion releases. Tuskarr Jouster could end up being a replacement for Healbot as well.

Not sure Armored Warhorse, Master Jouster or Argent Lance will see play but I think that's just because of their stats and/or competition rather than the mechanic itself.

 

[gutshot]

Oh, that wasn't known back then? OK I take that back then

It was known. The Boom Bots were revealed at the same time as Dr. Boom.

None of the reviews I've read or listened to misunderstood how Dr. Boom worked, yet they still all underrated him.

 

[Kornflayx]

I still like Kripps analysis from a few months back, that Boom Bots are 1 drops that people would actually put into their deck.

 

[Dahbomb]

I still like Kripps analysis from a few months back, that Boom Bots are 1 drops that people would actually put into their deck.

Still the most relevant video made on Dr Balanced.

6 months ago.

 

[nynt9]

I feel like there might be a neutral card that gives a specific class's cards to you for every class. That makes more sense.

 

[Pooya]

Does thoughsteal count? Because it's actually the best card of that bunch if so.

That doesn't make cards from thin air, that's actually better and more consistent than all of these because of it. These are a different type of cards. Unstable portal is similar but the main value in there is the cost reduction.

 

[ZealousD]

Yeah I don't think he liked a single card in that set lol.... (except Aviana though he did initially thought it was trash)

Amount of times he said "trash" in that video was off the charts!

He still underrated Aviana. Didn't even bring up Ancient of War. She's scary as hell in that taunt heavy Ramp Druid. If she stays alive for a turn the Druid probably just wins the game.

 

[slayn]

I am very skeptical of Jousting actually working.

I think a lot of us are. There could of course be jousting synergy cards we don't know about yet. You could have like, 2 mana 2/3 this minion always wins jousts or other crazy stuff but because you don't win on ties I think you have to look at every joust card as only having like a 40% chance of triggering.

Given that though, I think the paladin joust that heals is the only really intriguing one because its effect is synergistic with jousting in general. Against slower decks you don't need the heal and so having a 5/5 is way better than having a healbot. Against faster decks you're more likely to win. In this sense there are situations where the card is better than the alternative (healbot) even when you lose the joust which I think elevates its value significantly.

Other cards, if they lose their joust, tend to be strictly worse than what you would play in the same spot otherwise.

And, sure, Dr Balanced could win the joust but at the same time... I'll be kind of happy to know Dr Balanced isn't in my opponents hand.

I'm also super curious to see how much impact knowing a certain card isn't in your opponent's hand will have. Most of the time it won't matter but if my opponent shows me his Harrison Jones is in his deck, for example, I might be able to make a stronger move than I had otherwise.

 

[Dahbomb]

Wait you don't win on ties?

LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Papercuts]

He still underrated Aviana. Didn't even bring up Ancient of War. She's scary as hell in that taunt heavy Ramp Druid. If she stays alive for a turn the Druid probably just wins the game.

He mentioned KT + Aviana but was just like "yeah" when I feel it's damn hard to remove a 6/8 and a 5/5 on one turn, and you straight up lose afterwards. Even Aviana with Loatheb would be nasty based on the board state.

 

[CoolOff]

Still the most relevant video made on Dr Balanced.

6 months ago.

"We haven't met the sales quota for GVG-packs" lololol

 

[CoolOff]

Wait you don't win on ties?

LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel like a tie should joust again.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

I was gung-ho about Joust until I heard that you lose a Joust on ties. That's just wack.

 

[johnsmith]

Jousting was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.

 

[bjaelke]

It clearly states "if yours cost more"

 

[Papercuts]

Yeah, I'd rather it keep jousting in the instance of a tie.

In other news, two games in a row where my flamewaker got implosioned for 4 behind a taunt. Great.

 

[Dreavus]

I'm trying to think of how Magic's version of "joust" turned out. It had you flipping the top card and compared mana costs only. It was a lot more swingy because of the presence of lands in both decks (which count as 0), but comparing top card of each deck let you manipulate the results a bit.

The only way to manipulate joust is to have more high cost minions in your deck, which results in a slower deck. Druid likes to run a lot of huge minions sometimes so I could see it working nicely there. For a lot of other decks it's just a shot in the dark whether you lose to a 2 - 2 tie or your 3 mana guy beats his 2 mana guy.

 

[Minsc]

Jousting needs to be until there is a winner to punish aggro decks when you get your 2 or 3 drops drawn.

Ties really hurt it, and the creatures you're playing with joust are generally inferior to those without, so if it becomes very unreliable to win a joust (less than 50%), no one will use it.

The whole animation to the mechanic is very reminiscent of the card game "War," and if you have a tie in that, you double up (or triple up, etc). That's how they should have gone, it'd have been more dramatic, and they could have a whole line up of minions until the tie is over. If you run out of minions to joust with in your deck (as the fifth tie progresses to round 6), you should just lose the joust automatically.

 

[ViviOggi]

smdh at losing on ties

Just how

 

[FeD.nL]

Gang-up might be interesting for a control rogue with joust if that ever becomes a thing. I like it as a tool against aggro but why can't it also provide another dimension in Control vs. Control match ups by showing the next minion the players would draw.

 

[Vitanimus]

anyone I can spectate on EU?

 

[Officerrob]

Losing when it's a tie really hurts the jousting mechanic

 

[Randomizer123454444]

I feel like a tie should joust again.

There would be a danger of an infinite loop though, if both players only had equal cost minions. Unlikely, yes, but possible.

 

[Ultrabum]

It was known. The Boom Bots were revealed at the same time as Dr. Boom.

None of the reviews I've read or listened to misunderstood how Dr. Boom worked, yet they still all underrated him.

Going back and looking, there are lots of reviews from trump and Krupp with the boom bot text where they say it's bad. Either I mis remembered or it was someone else I was watching.

 

[Super Nothing]

There would be a danger of an infinite loop though, if both players only had equal cost minions. Unlikely, yes, but possible.

All they'd have to do to avoid that is make it so that you don't pull the same minion twice in a joust. That way, you'd have at most 26 cards to joust with (assuming you play a turn 1 joust). If you tie all the way through your deck (which is highly unlikely), you lose the joust. If the other player runs out of cards to joust, you win. This would also allow you to reveal more of the other player's deck.

 

[Nirolak]

Jousting struck me as a mechanic to punish heavy aggro decks, not midrange.

Face hunter only runs up to a mana cost of three generally, and has tons of minions with 1 and 2 mana cost.

You're going to have very few of those in a control deck comparatively, so you'd be winning almost all of your jousts anyway.

Obviously in mid range your odds get notably worse since they run a fairly normal mana curve that just caps off lower.

If you wanted to joust in a meta that wasn't heavily dominated by pure aggro, you would either run a heavy control deck with lots of expensive cards and/or a control deck that did most of its early game management with weapons and spells.

If you just take an existing deck and shove in a couple joust minions that's unlikely to end well. It's not like running Piloted Shredder in a non-Mech deck.

 

[Dahbomb]

IMO that 1/2 that turns into a Zombie Chow is pretty usable in many Control/late game decks.

You play the 1/2 on turn 1 without knowing what your opponent is playing. You joust and you are able to see what kind of deck they are playing.

If you win because they are running aggro, then you basically just played a Zombie Chow without a draw back.

If you lose because they have a large minion then you got some info and if they are running a control/late game deck then the 1/2 isn't really all that different from a 2/3 for them to remove.


Worst case scenario is if you lose the 1/2 against a Midrange deck and you get punished by a Mad Scientist from a Midrange Hunter. But even then that is not that bad because the 1/2 will gain you 2 health.

 

[Copenap]

Losing a joust on a tie us absolutely the correct way and won't hurt the mechanic much. Not saying it is a great mechanic though.

 

[ZealousD]

The only way to manipulate joust is to have more high cost minions in your deck, which results in a slower deck. Druid likes to run a lot of huge minions sometimes so I could see it working nicely there. For a lot of other decks it's just a shot in the dark whether you lose to a 2 - 2 tie or your 3 mana guy beats his 2 mana guy.

Taunt Ramp Druid is probably the most top heavy deck in the game, so it benefits the most from jousting. So you can run Gadgetzan Jouster and Master Jouster in that deck. That plus Aviana makes it probably the most improved deck in this expansion, imo. Aside from buff/aggro Paladin maybe.

 

[Minsc]

Losing a joust on a tie us absolutely the correct way and won't hurt the mechanic much. Not saying it is a great mechanic though.

This would be fine if joust cards were cost to be mana-efficient, but most joust cards are missing stat points or effects and cost you tempo, so losing with them is a big setback.

 

[ZealousD]

I think in most cases, winning a Joust gives you such an advantage compared to the penalty of losing that Joust cards are still generally very good when you build a deck around them. I think Gadgetzan Jouster will be very popular in Druid decks because the upside is a no penalty Zombie Chow, which is insane, and the loss is a 1/2, which is fair for the cost.

 

[Opiate]

This would be fine if joust cards were cost to be mana-efficient, but most joust cards are missing stat points or effects and cost you tempo, so losing with them is a big setback.

Yes, it's possible it's not quite tuned correctly. Maybe the cards need more stats, or maybe if jousters won ties, it would be fine.

Or maybe not. I have to see these cards in action first.

 

[gutshot]

I'm surprised they haven't announced the release date yet. Figured that would have been announced during their Gamescom presentation.

 

[JesseZao]

Just expect the last Tuesday of August (25th). It's the most likely date.

They'll probably announce it for sure during their twitch stream on the 14th.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

There's some kind of event tomorrow right?

I don't know, I've just seen a lot of speculation that they'll announce the date tomorrow.

 

[gutshot]

There's some kind of event tomorrow right?

I don't know, I've just seen a lot of speculation that they'll announce the date tomorrow.

Oh OK. I thought the card dump from the other day was the Hearthstone event.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Oh OK. I thought the card dump from the other day was the Hearthstone event.

No, I'm genuinely asking if there's an event tomorrow because I've seen people speculate that we'll hear the date tomorrow but I don't know.

Also, new Priest card.

 

[daemissary]

I can't post an image cuz I'm at work but Polygon posted a new Priest spell that I didn't see here.

2 mana, swap attack and health of all minions.

Sorry if old.

Edit: Beaten by seconds lol.

 

[Vitanimus]

that seems like a fun card

 

[Opiate]

that seems like a fun card

It had better be fun, because it sure isn't good.

 

[Xanathus]

Really not sure what to make of that card, I'd be interested to know what Kolento thinks of it since he seems to be the best Priest player for stat manipulation.

 

[gutshot]

Shamans nerfed again, lol.

 

[Ultrabum]

Priest card is awesome. 2 mana cost is cheap and I can see it being used to force you to desl with all their 1-2 attack 8 health shit because otherwise they could play this for lethal or trade into Giants or other big minions.

I'd run 1 of it in a buff style priest deck with the new legendaries.

Edit: also kills most totems rofl, shamen literally not in the game.