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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks

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Opiate

Member
Ah that's an interesting idea of cutting draw for Varian since Varian is draw. However that deck already runs only 1x Shield Block so.... that's it.

Yeah, 2x shield block 1x acolyte might be better than 2x acolyte 1x shield block. The deck needs survivability to late game more than it needs massive card draw, and block provides that, I feel.

Acolyte is more (potential) card draw but less survivability, while shield block is more survivability and less card draw.
 
Did not know until getting lucky with this tavern brawl that there's special audio when Illidan is summoned against Malfurion ("Hello....brother"). Any other special condition stuff that people know about?
 

Dahbomb

Member
So before I give up on this game completely out of boredom.

What's an ok starting character/deck? Direct damage / control mage seems like a really simple thing to do but the cards you have don't seem all that hot for it.
Direct damage ie face aggressive decks rule at earlier ranks (well at all ranks really).

Face Hunter, Face Paladin, Mech Mage/Shaman, Zoolock and Tempo Mage are cheap aggro decks that get easy wins.


Control Mage or Freeze Mage is really expensive to make. As are most control decks really.
 

Xanathus

Member
Yeah, 2x shield block 1x acolyte might be better than 2x acolyte 1x shield block. The deck needs survivability to late game more than it needs massive card draw, and block provides that, I feel.

I feel 2x Acolyte 1x Shield Block is way better because Acolyte isn't just draw but it's also removal AND damage absorption. There's no point in just having armor if you don't remove the repeating damage. And the draw isn't really massive because you're not running stuff like Battle Rage, and Control Warrior really really needs draw in order to find the most efficient options for answering threats. 2x Acolyte 2x Shield Block isn't even enough a lot of times because Acolytes get silenced or only draw 1 card.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Why the hell would you cut BGH! You don't need to kill every battlecry minion from your deck because of one card jesus christ!

I think people in general are going waaaay overkill on fearing not getting their battlecries.

They're zero cost minions going onto the board that still have good stats anyway. You could be playing 35 mana worth of value in a turn, so even if we adjust for the battlecries, it's still insane value.

This card also isn't going to come out often enough that you want to skip the useful battlecries for the situations where you pull it.
 
Did not know until getting lucky with this tavern brawl that there's special audio when Illidan is summoned against Malfurion ("Hello....brother"). Any other special condition stuff that people know about?

Play Deathwing against Nefarian in Adventure Mode and Nefarian will say "Daddy?" Nothing for Onyxia though.

Play Cairne against Garrosh and he will say "Garrosh! You are not fit to rule the Horde!"

That's it I think. Hopefully Varian will have one for Anduin.

Oh yeah, Nefarian has a unique line for every class he is played against, like he did in Blackwing Lair.
 

Opiate

Member
I feel 2x Acolyte 1x Shield Block is way better because Acolyte isn't just draw but it's also removal AND damage absorption. There's no point in just having armor if you don't remove the repeating damage. And the draw isn't really massive because you're not running stuff like Battle Rage, and Control Warrior really really needs draw in order to find the most efficient options for answering threats. 2x Acolyte 2x Shield Block isn't even enough a lot of times because Acolytes get silenced or only draw 1 card.

That's an interesting perspective. I'm not sure I agree, but it's possible. A strong consideration here is that 1x shield block also means you are thin on armor for shield slam; 1x shield block, and 2x shieldmaiden which can potentially be called without their battlecry.
 
Direct damage ie face aggressive decks rule at earlier ranks (well at all ranks really).

Face Hunter, Face Paladin, Mech Mage/Shaman, Zoolock and Tempo Mage are cheap aggro decks that get easy wins.


Control Mage or Freeze Mage is really expensive to make. As are most control decks really.
Cool, thanks.
 

Biochet

Member
blizzard should make warrior commons with good inspire effects if they ever want to pull that class out of the depths of the catacombs its stuck in

arena ofc
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Auto pick for any warrior, I can't think of one i'd pick over it? Dr Boom, maybe?
Maaaaaybe grom just because Varian might be too slow. If you're losing by turn 8 grom could swing it whereas by the time you drop varian you might just die.

And across all legendaries Tirion is probably better just because it swings the game earlier and in more situations.
 

JesseZao

Member
blizzard should make warrior commons with good inspire effects if they ever want to pull that class out of the depths of the catacombs its stuck in

arena ofc

Siege engine is psuedo inspire, but pretty bland.

They need an inspire that causes the minion to gain health.
 

embalm

Member
Play Deathwing against Nefarian in Adventure Mode and Nefarian will say "Daddy?" Nothing for Onyxia though.

Play Cairne against Garrosh and he will say "Garrosh! You are not fit to rule the Horde!"

That's it I think. Hopefully Varian will have one for Anduin.

Oh yeah, Nefarian has a unique line for every class he is played against, like he did in Blackwing Lair.
Vol'jin says, "Who be da warchief now" to Garrosh instead of his usual, "Da spirits be restless"
 

gutshot

Member
Did not know until getting lucky with this tavern brawl that there's special audio when Illidan is summoned against Malfurion ("Hello....brother"). Any other special condition stuff that people know about?

Vol'jin says "Who be da warchief now?" when played against Garrosh.

Nefarian has a different entrance line for all 9 classes.
 
I think people in general are going waaaay overkill on fearing not getting their battlecries.

I feel exactly the same way. Sometimes you don't get the Battlecry; big deal. You might not even have drawn that card without Varian; the battlecry isn't always of great significance; you still drew 3 cards; you still got 1 or more free minions. Also there are plenty of games where my Alex doesn't have a relevant battlecry; but I can always play Alex before Varian in a clutch situation- unless I didn't draw it- in which case I didn't draw it in time anyway.

Also, I think Varian could single-handedly make the Handlock matchup better, in the same way that Jaraxxus single-handedly changes Handlock's matchup vs. control decks.
 

georly

Member
Maaaaaybe grom just because Varian might be too slow. If you're losing by turn 8 grom could swing it whereas by the time you drop varian you might just die.

And across all legendaries Tirion is probably better just because it swings the game earlier and in more situations.

Yeah I guess it depends on deck.
Tyrion is hands down the best legendary, I think.

Boom is about the only one I can think of and even that's depending on the deck.

Even still, Warrior is still too of weak of a class in Arena.

Yup :/
 

Werd

Member
I think the loss of battle cry value is being overrated. Having played a couple thousand ranked games of control warrior at a decent level, I'm optimistic Varian would work in a slightly tweaked deck.

The match ups where you are most hurt by battle cry loss are the ones you can most afford to hold him in hand until you feel the game state is favorable. AoE used (in which case filling the board is well worth it regardless), opponent low on cards, BGH drawn, etc. If you don't have the time to hold out, then what does it matter if you were going to get Black Knight in 3 turns?

If you've survived until turn 10, several battle cry minions have already lost some of their value. Shieldmaiden is there to get you to the late game, not gain 5 armor vs control. Taskmaster isn't fighting off zoo from the deck on turn 10, and I'm not losing sleep over potential utility ping value.

Pulling something like Boom is perfectly fine, he's just there for pure value and getting 14/14 of stats + 2 more draws is rather good value. You can look at the card list and think up some scenarios where it would be pretty bad, but it's just as easy to call out Belcher-Belcher-Armorsmith vs Zoo or Thaurissan-Spell-Spell vs heavy control, 25/25 of stats vs a deck without clear, etc. Obviously it will be up and down, but card draw and playing from the deck are two rather powerful mechanics.
 

gutshot

Member
Aviana is in the Druid class though...

I know but when it was revealed everyone was losing their minds over the dream scenario where you play Aviana on turn 10 plus Innervate and then play Ancient of War, Kel'thuzad, and Ragnaros all in one turn.

Then here comes Varian Wrynn and the dream with him is exactly the same except it's a lot easier to pull off (you only need one card in hand) and even if you whiff you got a 7/7 body plus 3 cards. All for only 1 more mana.
 

squidyj

Member
I know but when it was revealed everyone was losing their minds over the dream scenario where you play Aviana on turn 10 plus Innervate and then play Ancient of War, Kel'thuzad, and Ragnaros all in one turn.

Then here comes Varian Wrynn and the dream with him is exactly the same except it's a lot easier to pull off (you only need one card in hand) and even if you whiff you got a 7/7 body plus 3 cards. All for only 1 more mana.

Aviana can be dreamed a little bigger though. Like the dream where aviana lives a turn. Varian can't dream that big.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Aviana can be dreamed a little bigger though. Like the dream where aviana lives a turn. Varian can't dream that big.

Yup. Aviana is a "you remove me this turn or are basically fucked" while varian shits a ton of value on the board.

The dream Aviana combos are things that not only create a powerful board, but protect her to continue having insane turns. Plus having battlecry triggers is important, I don't think Varian would mesh nearly as well in Druid since powerful cards like Lore and War would just be 5/5.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Alexstraza's battlecry is super important for the existing Control Warrior archetype. It gives Warrior tremendous burst in the late game to close it out. Without it, all of your legendaries have to stick on the board for several turns to give you enough reach to close it out. For that reason I think Varian is going to reduce CW consistency against other control decks because you lose that burst and other control decks can deal with your minions better. That's why you care about Alexstraza's battlecry being lost when you play Varian.

If you are up against a Paladin, play Varian, Alex pops out, and then the Paladin uses Equality, you lose the game.

However, putting out that many threats could be very troublesome for midrange decks, especially Druid. So what you lose in consistency you may gain in being able to deal with midrange better.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Yeah the Alex + Grommash combo is really threatening from Control Warrior. It's a really strong win condition for them.

However most other cards on Warrior are replaceable for Varryn. More than anything the card draw is really valuable for Control Warrior to tackle the Handlock match up (like mentioned before in my post). I mean Warriors run Nefarian for god's sakes.... this is IMO WAY better than Nefarian.
 
Ram Wangler is like bane of doom for hunters.

Rhonin looks okay but thank god he is activated in deathrattle and not battlecry. Makes him more tolerable.

Varian looks like it is that card that you think "oh wow, insane" but he is probably more like "cool, but the match ups he works against aren't worth including him for". At least that is my initial impression.

Light's champion... arena card maybe.

edit:
Varian could work in some different type of control warrior deck, one with less reliance on battlecry, more reliance on charge/deathrattles.
 

embalm

Member
It looks like Blizzard is going to be dumping the last 50 or so cards all at once this week or next week, so I thought I'd share this. It's Trump reviewing the last 60 cards of GvG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToPCarut8FI

There were some pretty important cards saved for the last push of updates. Some meta staples like Kezan mystic, Implosion, and Shielded Minibot; Some cool mechanics like Bolvar and Floating Watcher; And of course some trash.
 
What if you have Chromaggus out and you play Varyn?

Do you also summon twice as many minions in the board?

I bet that will not work. If it does it could make for some great shenanigans.

Ok so i have a question because its been on my brain for a while.

So my opponent had Stallag and Feugen on the board he plays Blackwing and get 2 Thaddeus how does that work? He did not have Rivendare on the board.
 
I kind of wish Ram Wrangler was 4 mana but maybe that would be too strong, especially if there are a couple more high mana beasts introduced in this expansion. I'm still excited to try it out though, beast Hunter is something I've always been interested in.

As far as beasts that are coming with TGT, so far there's Savage Combatant, Armored Warhorse and Mukla's Champion. Nothing crazy but any of those would give decent value I'd think.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
So my opponent had Stallag and Feugen on the board he plays Blackwing and get 2 Thaddeus how does that work? He did not have Rivendare on the board.

1 Thaddius from Stallag and 1 Thaddius from Feugen. Their deathrattles trigger simultaneously and both see that the other one died. Minions die first, then the deathrattles resolve.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
What if you have Chromaggus out and you play Varyn?

Do you also summon twice as many minions in the board?

You get copies of any cards that go in your hand.

If a minion card is drawn and the board is full, the minion is not played and goes into your hand, and you will get a copy of the card.

Minions summoned on the board are not copied.
 
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