You probably can't cut Shield Maidens from the deck because the armor gain is too important, but it should be fine if Shield Maiden gets brought out by Varian because you probably don't need it that much if you've survived to 10 mana and can afford to play it without dying next turn.
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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks
- Thread starter ZealousD
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You probably can't cut Shield Maidens from the deck because the armor gain is too important, but it should be fine if Shield Maiden gets brought out by Varian because you probably don't need it that much if you've survived to 10 mana and can afford to play it without dying next turn.
You don't have to adjust your deck too much for Varian, I would much rather play Grom and Alex over Varian.
Super Nothing
Member
That would actually make Lava Shock really good, possibly too good depending on what the 0 cost card does. If it was a minion card, that could be nearly impossible for the other player to come back from if two 3-4 cost minions were summoned on turn 1 since you'd only sacrifice the 2 mana turn. It would have to be a burn spell, and Shamans already have enough cheap burn.
crazygambit
Member
Those work. Thanks!
Hmm didn't even think of how good it would be turn 1. Maybe if it's a spell that targets minions but something that is stronger on stronger minions that you might not want to use on a 1 cost minion. Something for mid-range or late-game combos. Something that adds attack damage or windfury or both. I dunno!
Or maybe something with mega overload
Something that gives you overload for the next two turns so you wouldn't want to play it turn 1 unless you didn't want a turn 2/3.Varian might be strong enough to push a Mid-Range Warrior or completely change the face of some Control Warrior decks.
He might work in a Charge & Taunt deck. Focus on Taunt value in the early game to out value aggro. Switch to a charge late game to finish the aggro race & to rush down full on control decks. Varian would offer a deck like that some serious card draw and possibly lethal in lucky situations. No idea if this would even be possible as a future deck, but maybe.
He might work in a Charge & Taunt deck. Focus on Taunt value in the early game to out value aggro. Switch to a charge late game to finish the aggro race & to rush down full on control decks. Varian would offer a deck like that some serious card draw and possibly lethal in lucky situations. No idea if this would even be possible as a future deck, but maybe.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Varian really doesn't fit into established Warrior decks right now since Control is so battlecry heavy but he is one of the cards that are so potentially powerful a deck can be constructed with him in mind.
crazygambit
Member
Rhonin seems pretty terrible compared to Dr. Boom for example. A 7/7 for 8 that does nothing the turn it comes into play doesn't seem very good. Then again, if it was a battlecry it might be broken.
Varian is interesting and might work in a control warrior. Drawing 3 cards alone should cost around 4 mana, and being able to straight up put into play the minions you draw should push that even higher, plus the 7/7 body which should cost more than 6 it seems well costed.
Then again Warriors already have access to the best card draw in the game so they might not need it.
Varian is interesting and might work in a control warrior. Drawing 3 cards alone should cost around 4 mana, and being able to straight up put into play the minions you draw should push that even higher, plus the 7/7 body which should cost more than 6 it seems well costed.
Then again Warriors already have access to the best card draw in the game so they might not need it.
Phawx
Member
My thoughts. Also include some charge heavy and Leroy
I also agree with this. Very powerful card, just doesn't fit in current warrior decks. I'm afraid he might be Gallywixed, but I doubt it, since I do feel Warrior has other supporting tools.
So this just happened.
I played a Deathlord. A turn later I play Deathbite. Next turn Deathlord dies and the opponent gets a Hunter Creeper from the deathraddle. I attack the Creeper with the second charge of Deathbite and the whirlwind kills the spawning spiders!?!
Does the summoned Hunter Creeper keep the "order of play" from the Deathlord? That's so weird. Can anyone explain?
I played a Deathlord. A turn later I play Deathbite. Next turn Deathlord dies and the opponent gets a Hunter Creeper from the deathraddle. I attack the Creeper with the second charge of Deathbite and the whirlwind kills the spawning spiders!?!
Does the summoned Hunter Creeper keep the "order of play" from the Deathlord? That's so weird. Can anyone explain?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I wonder what happened with Varian being a new hero portrait for Warrior like their example they gave before it was a thing. Guess Magni replaced him for the Alliance repping? Garrosh was Warchief and Varian is King so it would've made sense
Alright some pretty cool stuff today.
Varian: This is another Yugioh-esque card here. Draw 3 cards? God damn! And if they are minions put them directly into the battlefield? Amazing! I MEAN IF I DRAW INTO RAGNAROS, KELTHUZAD AND SYLVANAS I WIN THE GAME!
Well it all sounds amazing until you realize that the Control Warrior deck is filled with Battlecry minions. Alex, Harrison, Cruel taskmaster, any silences, BGH maybe even Loatheb.
I feel like to make this card work you need to make a deck around it. A control warrior that doesn't utilize as many Battle Cry effects to get maximum value off of this card. Maybe even more minion centric than normal.
This is one of those cards that would put Control Warrior on a more even footing against Handlock because this card would allow you to keep up with their card draw. Not only that it enables new forms of decks for the Control Warrior that are similar to the Jousting mechanic (slower minions).
Overall I really like this card but as always I am skeptical that it will see competitive play. Another thing I like about this card is that it's our first 10 mana Legendary after Deathwing! YAY!
Rhonin: This card is obviously made for Tempo Mage deck. The unfortunate problem with this card is that it's a 8 mana card instead of a 7 mana cost. Right now it's just a more expensive Dr Balanced where as if it was 7 mana it would actually replace Dr Balanced in Tempo Mage (MAYBE). The 3 extra Arcane Missiles could win you the game if you have an Antonidas or Flamewaker in hand.
It's still not bad in that Tempo Mage deck and definitely usable. You can afford to replace one cheap spell in your deck for this card. Maybe there's room for a slower spell oriented Mage deck in which this case this would see play.
My guess is that they tried it at 7 mana and it was too good in that deck. I can certainly see that.
Not a bad card overall but not that great either but we'll see. I still like the card though I hate Arcane Missiles.
Ram Wrangle: I hate this card already. It's not consistent enough to actually warrant making a beast deck around but at the same time it's one of those cards where if it does see play is just going to cause so much frustration.
The RNG swing is so huge on this between the Parrot (1/1 does nothing) and King Crush (8/8 charge).
I fucking hate all these RNG bullshit that the Hunters are getting between Lock n Load and this card.
Varian: This is another Yugioh-esque card here. Draw 3 cards? God damn! And if they are minions put them directly into the battlefield? Amazing! I MEAN IF I DRAW INTO RAGNAROS, KELTHUZAD AND SYLVANAS I WIN THE GAME!
Well it all sounds amazing until you realize that the Control Warrior deck is filled with Battlecry minions. Alex, Harrison, Cruel taskmaster, any silences, BGH maybe even Loatheb.
I feel like to make this card work you need to make a deck around it. A control warrior that doesn't utilize as many Battle Cry effects to get maximum value off of this card. Maybe even more minion centric than normal.
This is one of those cards that would put Control Warrior on a more even footing against Handlock because this card would allow you to keep up with their card draw. Not only that it enables new forms of decks for the Control Warrior that are similar to the Jousting mechanic (slower minions).
Overall I really like this card but as always I am skeptical that it will see competitive play. Another thing I like about this card is that it's our first 10 mana Legendary after Deathwing! YAY!
Rhonin: This card is obviously made for Tempo Mage deck. The unfortunate problem with this card is that it's a 8 mana card instead of a 7 mana cost. Right now it's just a more expensive Dr Balanced where as if it was 7 mana it would actually replace Dr Balanced in Tempo Mage (MAYBE). The 3 extra Arcane Missiles could win you the game if you have an Antonidas or Flamewaker in hand.
It's still not bad in that Tempo Mage deck and definitely usable. You can afford to replace one cheap spell in your deck for this card. Maybe there's room for a slower spell oriented Mage deck in which this case this would see play.
My guess is that they tried it at 7 mana and it was too good in that deck. I can certainly see that.
Not a bad card overall but not that great either but we'll see. I still like the card though I hate Arcane Missiles.
Ram Wrangle: I hate this card already. It's not consistent enough to actually warrant making a beast deck around but at the same time it's one of those cards where if it does see play is just going to cause so much frustration.
The RNG swing is so huge on this between the Parrot (1/1 does nothing) and King Crush (8/8 charge).
I fucking hate all these RNG bullshit that the Hunters are getting between Lock n Load and this card.
Yep, that's my thought really. A fairly creature heavy deck with a lot of taunts. Again, not saying this deck is bad, just that it's not the decks we're playing right now. You can't just take the current control warrior deck with Alex and Grom and 2x Shieldmaidens and sometimes Geddon and slot Varian in there. It will need to be a very different type of deck.
People that think you cut Alex because of Varian are talking crazy. The only time this negatively impacts warrior is if you play varian before drawing Alex, AND one of the 3 cards is Alex, AND you reach fatigue(otherwise it's as if Alex was just on the bottom of your deck), AND Alex's battlecry was relevant that game.
There will be tweaks made to support Varian, sure. Ysera/Rag make more sense than equivalent value minions like Nef for instance. And it puts a tiny, and I mean tiny, amount of pressure to cut cards like big game and ironbeak owl.
That said, you choose when to play Varian. You'll know the number of creatures you expect to be in the 3 cards and you'll know the exact %chance of flipping a card that is important to draw.
There will be tweaks made to support Varian, sure. Ysera/Rag make more sense than equivalent value minions like Nef for instance. And it puts a tiny, and I mean tiny, amount of pressure to cut cards like big game and ironbeak owl.
That said, you choose when to play Varian. You'll know the number of creatures you expect to be in the 3 cards and you'll know the exact %chance of flipping a card that is important to draw.
Yep. It really doesn't matter that you "lose" the battlecry. Maybe you would have never drawn that card without Varian.
The reason why we're discussing cutting Alex and Grom from a Control Warrior deck that contains Varian is that you NEED to cut something to fit the card in. Y'all are just saying you will just play it together with Alex and Grom, so are you going to cut out Belchers? Brawl? Shield Block? Fiery War Axe/Death Bite? Or did I miss the update where you can have more than 30 cards in a deck.
I'd cut alex over grom. Anything with charge or taunt benefits greatly from varian since they're not battlecry heavy and you get immediate results. Alex, however, is at worst a free 8/8 with the utility of otherwise being an alex
Better than any of the giants because of that.I envision a charge and taunt heavy deck w/ the new taunt buff cards maybe, and some of the charges with negative battlecries like leeroy and golem.
There are a LOT of card draw mechanics in this expansion.
Anub'arak - Draws himself in a way. Along with leaving behind a 4/4.
Skeleton Knight - Draws himself if he wins joust.
Nexus-Champion Saraad - Inspire Draw spell
Ball of Spiders - Summon Webspinners which create Beast cards.
Grand Crusader - Draw a paladin card
Ancestral Knowledge - Draw 2 cards
Burgle - Create 2 cards of the opposing class
Spellslinger - Create spells for both players
Cutpurse - create coin when hitting hero
Lock and Load - Create hunter card for every spell cast
Varian Wrynn - Draw 3, play minions for free
Rhonin - Add 3 Arcane Missiles on death
That's 12 out of the 80 or so cards revealed so far.
Anub'arak - Draws himself in a way. Along with leaving behind a 4/4.
Skeleton Knight - Draws himself if he wins joust.
Nexus-Champion Saraad - Inspire Draw spell
Ball of Spiders - Summon Webspinners which create Beast cards.
Grand Crusader - Draw a paladin card
Ancestral Knowledge - Draw 2 cards
Burgle - Create 2 cards of the opposing class
Spellslinger - Create spells for both players
Cutpurse - create coin when hitting hero
Lock and Load - Create hunter card for every spell cast
Varian Wrynn - Draw 3, play minions for free
Rhonin - Add 3 Arcane Missiles on death
That's 12 out of the 80 or so cards revealed so far.
I adjust my control warrior almost daily. You don't need to play 2x of every card you know and the legendaries are chosen to fit the current meta. It's easy to swap one card for Varian.
It's super easy to cut cards from control warrior. It has a lot of flex spots and everyone's list is different. It isn't hard at all to fit cards into control warrior.
Here, I'll make a bet with you: if Varian is played competitively with any regularity, the deck which uses him will look notably different than the control warrior we see right now. "Notably different" here would mean more than swapping a few "flex spots."
The stakes: if I win, you are banned forever. If you win, I don't ban you.
Those stakes are a joke
You can't just cut one of your lower mana cards to fit in Varian because you lose consistency in drawing them and those lower mana cards are arguably way more important than having Varian in the deck because otherwise you lose against aggro/midrange. Grom is playable with a deck with Varian since it has charge but Alex just goes completely against the game plan of a deck with Varian that it seems like the most obvious thing to replace. A deck with Varian would probably want to run Ysera/Kelthuzad/Sneeds as win conditions like the decks that were being played some time ago, like the one Kitkatz was running where he got the Sneeds out of Sneeds.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Agreed.
Outside of Grom, just about every legendary in Control Warrior is swappable including Alex which has been swapped for Ysera in the past in a number of CW decks. I have no doubt that Varian will fit in in CW somehow in a deck that keeps him in mind.
And if I win I steal your modship!
I never want to be a mod don't give me any responsibility ever please
BananasWithGuns
Member
I'm sure Varian will be played in standard control Warrior, especially in the couple weeks after release but I'm hopeful that there will be a new Warrior deck pop up that really leverages his ability. Who knows, maybe there will even be a deck that gets away from all the armor based cards and plays a more tempo/midrange style game although I think Warrior needs a really good low mana class minion to make that feasible. Still, it might be something I end up trying out.
I looked up Kitkatz's ESL deck, and you can easily see Varian fitting into there. Cut 1x Black Knight, 1x BGH, 1x Spellbreaker add 1x Emperor, 1x Brawl, 1x Varian. Consider cutting Dr Boom for Ysera.
http://www.gosugamers.net/hearthstone/decks/1116-kitkatz-s-control-warrior-esl-2nd-place
http://www.gosugamers.net/hearthstone/decks/1116-kitkatz-s-control-warrior-esl-2nd-place
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
This is one example that proves it is very possible to include Varian. Outside of its early game, the removal, Grom, and Shieldmaidens, CW decks are actually pretty damn flexible as far as what you can include and take out.
This is actually the first tavern brawl where my pack wasn't just 40 dust. Double epic with Ice Block and Molten Giant, the Molten being a gold. Reallllly good for me since I only had one copy and actually had yet to pull ice block.
Re: new cards...
Varian: Super nuts! Really powerful effect that I imagine will fit his way into decks either way. Could even be a different style of control warrior to get around some battlecry stuff, but on the other hand just putting huge bodies into play alongside a 7/7 already could just be overwhelming enough to not matter. Could get blown up for overextending though.
Rhonin: Pretty plain but still seems fine. Any comparisons to Boom does it no favors since that card is busted, but it is a shame it can be silenced and you lose the spell spam afterwards. Does feed into a lot of mage stuff like seems too slow/awkward for tempo mage at 8 mana.
Ram Wrangler: Seems pretty strong due to all the beast synergy stuff hunter could have, and a few of these are outright game winning. Sorta reminds me of bane of doom with a 3/3 stapled on instead of removal, the stipulation for him to trigger isn't hard to meet.
Holy Knight: no
Re: new cards...
Varian: Super nuts! Really powerful effect that I imagine will fit his way into decks either way. Could even be a different style of control warrior to get around some battlecry stuff, but on the other hand just putting huge bodies into play alongside a 7/7 already could just be overwhelming enough to not matter. Could get blown up for overextending though.
Rhonin: Pretty plain but still seems fine. Any comparisons to Boom does it no favors since that card is busted, but it is a shame it can be silenced and you lose the spell spam afterwards. Does feed into a lot of mage stuff like seems too slow/awkward for tempo mage at 8 mana.
Ram Wrangler: Seems pretty strong due to all the beast synergy stuff hunter could have, and a few of these are outright game winning. Sorta reminds me of bane of doom with a 3/3 stapled on instead of removal, the stipulation for him to trigger isn't hard to meet.
Holy Knight: no
Absolutely, I think people will start by playing Varian in standard control decks then it will morph slowly over time as people get a better sense of what does and does not work in a deck with that sort of card.
Lostconfused
Member
So before I give up on this game completely out of boredom.
What's an ok starting character/deck? Direct damage / control mage seems like a really simple thing to do but the cards you have don't seem all that hot for it.
What's an ok starting character/deck? Direct damage / control mage seems like a really simple thing to do but the cards you have don't seem all that hot for it.
Yes, I think Ysera has a place in that deck. I think bash might have a place in that deck, too. I'd take out an acolyte of pain as well, and roll with 1. 2x acolyte of pain, 1x shield block, and 1x Varian is actually too much card draw for a deck that slow.
If you're new to the game, start with trump's teachings series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVNvpeQGir4&list=PLvEIxIeBRKSjprrvlbAcbVjzHsnH9PjDX&index=2
In addition to explaining concepts to practice in the beginning he goes over starter decks for every class.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Astral Communion+Varian would be the dream if Communion was a Warrior card. lol
Ah that's an interesting idea of cutting draw for Varian since Varian is draw. However that deck already runs only 1x Shield Block so.... that's it.
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