I think it has remained untouched precisely because of this format change.
There will be reprints with different names but they won't reprint OP cards like Dr Boom.
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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
There will be reprints with different names but they won't reprint OP cards like Dr Boom.
But how is it much lower? A new player now can craft the 30 cards needed for secret paladin and be competitive. The card pool that is standard legal is going to roughly the same size as it is now at this moment. So I don't see how the bar of entry will be lower for new players.
Absolutely, that's what I meant with preventing stuff from getting worse. But they aren't really making things better for new players. Better would be a smaller cardpool in standard than what we have now. I consider the current bar for ranked play to be a bit too high and I don't see how rotating a set and an adventure out but rotating a new set in and possibly more will make thing better for new players entering the game. The volume of cards that are standard legal moving forward will be roughly the same as we have it now.
Edit:
I really don't think we're getting one set a year from now on and we're going to have no new cards entering standard for over a year. So the amount of content a new player will have to familiarize with will be roughly the same if not more than what we have now. I've been wanting Blizzard to make things better for new players for a long time since a lot of my friends basically don't care because of the volume of cards they need to learn/get. With this announcement I really don't see any improvement, I mean new players cannot ignore BRM/TGT/LOE if they want to become competitive.
CraigerGamer
Member
Great deck. Used it to get my free pack. Didn't have Captain Greenskin so I subbed in a Harrison Jones. Never even drew him. Played against a druid and just kept his board mostly clear and went face whenever i got a big weapon.
Super Nothing
Member
The card pool will be roughly the same size, but TGT, LoE, and BRM all rotate out in Spring 2017. A new player starting at the beginning of Year of the Kraken only needs to focus on the Classic set and the set launching this Spring.
Yes they will rotate out in a year, but if a new player wants to be competetive this year of standard he/she cannot just say fuck it to half the standard legal card pool.
They flat out removed GvG and Naxx from play. Which was likely the correct chose, all the meta cards from those sets were OP. Its partially why people say TgT sucked, because nothing was playable with how OP Naxx and GvG were.
Turn 2 - coin 2/2 shade
turns into a 3/3 - can't touch it
Turn 3 - PW:S + Divine spirit - 3/10 - cant touch it
turns to 4/11
Turn 4 - Inner fire -11/11 - cant touch it
when it finally decides to use it, it's a free hit that I could not stop even if I wanted to unless I have a vaporize, frost trap or noble sacrifice (to save me for 1 turn), oh and be lucky enough to be playing one of those 3 classes even if I don't like them. Oh, or I can hope for arcane missile to hit the shade 3 times on turn 3
By this point I better hope I have rng'ed out a hex, polymorph, sap. You don't see how this is an issue? you love your priest so much you can't see something stupid? Stealth should 100% work like it does in wow and I can at least use one of the low mana cost aoe spells that won't outright kill it to get it out of stealth. If by turn 4 a minion can do almost half your health without you having been able to counter it, that is a problem.
And I never said removed, so stop trying to put words in my mouth. Stealth very much can have a place in the game, but it should also not be guaranteed safety at low mana where no one can do much of it. If the issue is about "strategy" that the person that plays a stealth minion is just biding their time to counter me, then they should also not be immune of having some tactics or tools to counter him right back as should be a legitimate strategy.
Blizzard actually said that they might have nerfed Shredder if they weren't doing formats.
Super Nothing
Member
TGT is relatively weak. It might get a lot stronger once GvG and Naxx are removed, but it's been considered a pretty sub par set. The only real shake up it provided came from Mysterious Challenger. It wouldn't take a whole lot to collect what you need from there. BRM has a few key cards (Emperor, Imp Gang Boss, Flamewaker, and Quick Shot), but it's really only essential if you want to play Dragon decks (which mostly get nuked come Spring 2017). LoE has some good cards in it, but outside of Reno, it really didn't do a whole lot to the meta. I suppose all of that could change next year when a lot of these cards get to come out of the shadow of GvG and Naxx, but that remains to be seen.
That's pouring 3 cards into one minion, and those cards aren't doing anything from turn 2-5. I just treat a situation like that as if your opponent went AFK, and just go crazy on the board so he HAS to do something to interact with you. Any of the midrange decks will have that Priest in an un-recoverable position before he can even use Lightbomb.
LoE made Control/Fatigue Priest pretty strong thanks to Entomb, Curator and Excavated Evil. Curator is weaker now aND no Lightbomb means Excavated Evil is even more essential.
With removal of GvG/Naxx stuff like Mounted Raptor is high value. Even things like Ancient Shade is better now because of no Shredder and possible BGH nerf (for aggressive decks). Brann as well to get a double heal from Earthen/Vendor.
In fact I think every card in TGT and LoE needs to be reevaluated. Like a card such as Murloc Knight is much better post Shredder nerf same for that Rogue 4 drop.
With removal of GvG/Naxx stuff like Mounted Raptor is high value. Even things like Ancient Shade is better now because of no Shredder and possible BGH nerf (for aggressive decks). Brann as well to get a double heal from Earthen/Vendor.
In fact I think every card in TGT and LoE needs to be reevaluated. Like a card such as Murloc Knight is much better post Shredder nerf same for that Rogue 4 drop.
toddhunter
Member
They did, a year + the rest later.
all sources suggest this is a recent idea, so you can't really ignore that they have introduced dumb cards and kept them for a very long time. To me this suggests there is a very real chance they will mess up again.
Also shaman cards.
Control decks might swap in Gadgetzan Jouster with Zombie Chow gone.
WesternHeretic
Member
I tried that before.. never worked. Like ever. Works in Arena though.... maybe that's just my luck I don't know.
I think there's an argument that even today that Gadgetzan Jouster is preferable in Ramp Druid.
And with Zombie Chow gone some decks might not even have a choice.
it hurts
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
This post, right here.
Basically, it feels like people whine about owl and bgh because it prevents them from just smashing their opponents with no counter. Removing either would not be good for the game, in my view.
Top 20 cards I think will go up in value after the format change (no order):
1) Refreshment Vendor : Always competed against Healbot for the heal card and now it is much more attractive.
2) Flame Juggler : Some classes will need a 2 drop and this is a solid one to fill. Naxx and GvG had a ton of godly 2 drop so cards such as Flame Juggler can full in for the neutral spot.
3) Ancient Shade : Could end up being the 4 drop of choice for Aggro decks with Shredder gone.
4) Injured Kvaldir and Desert Camel : I pUT these two together. With Chow gone a lot less heavy decks will have a 1 drop which means Desert Camel becomes more valuable and so does Kvaldir. Though people might counter with Gadgetan Auctioneer which might replace Chow.
5) Nexus Champion Saraad : Control decks would want to fill their 7 slot and this is a good option for most of them.
6) King's Elekk : No Creeper, Haunted Spider and Mad Scientist (plus chance of Juggler nerf) means King Elekk could be the default 2 drop for Hunters.
7) Tomb Spider : Solid option for Midrange Beast Hunter with Shredder gone.
8) Ram Wrangler : Ram Wrangler fills the curve between Tomb Spider and Highmane. It used to be awkward if you had to follow up Shredder. With Loatheb also gone it frees up a slot.
9) Spell slinger : Unstable Portal and Mad Scientist gone means Mage needs to fill an early drop in their Tempo decks, this fits nicely.
10) Tuskar Jouster : No Loatheb, Belcher and Healbot means Paladins will be hungry for a defensive 5 drop and this fits perfectly.
11) Murloc Knight : For Midrange Paladin, replaces Shredder was already really good.
12) Holy Champion : No Cultists and Deathlords mean that Priests need a solid body to contest the board and this fits the bill. This is for non Dragon variant of course. Works well with Blade master who I also expect to go up in value.
13) Wrath Guard : No eggs, creepers and possible Juggler nerf means that Zoolock will be thirsty for a 2 drop and this qualifies.
14) Brann : I expect more decks to use this to get more value out of certain cards like Vendor.
15) Excavated Evil : With Lightbomb gone this one allows Control Priests to have another board clear option in its place.
16) Mounted Raptor : Replacement for Shade of Naxx in Druid decks. .)
17) Forgotten Torch : If Mages need a Flame Cannon replacement they can try this.
18) Tomb Pillaged : No Shredder to snipe it makes it much stronger.
19) Savage Combatant : This card was already really good and saw play, will probably be staple for Druids now.
20) Obsidian Destroyer : The Dr Boom fill in for Warrior. If BGH gets nerfed this card will be really good.
1) Refreshment Vendor : Always competed against Healbot for the heal card and now it is much more attractive.
2) Flame Juggler : Some classes will need a 2 drop and this is a solid one to fill. Naxx and GvG had a ton of godly 2 drop so cards such as Flame Juggler can full in for the neutral spot.
3) Ancient Shade : Could end up being the 4 drop of choice for Aggro decks with Shredder gone.
4) Injured Kvaldir and Desert Camel : I pUT these two together. With Chow gone a lot less heavy decks will have a 1 drop which means Desert Camel becomes more valuable and so does Kvaldir. Though people might counter with Gadgetan Auctioneer which might replace Chow.
5) Nexus Champion Saraad : Control decks would want to fill their 7 slot and this is a good option for most of them.
6) King's Elekk : No Creeper, Haunted Spider and Mad Scientist (plus chance of Juggler nerf) means King Elekk could be the default 2 drop for Hunters.
7) Tomb Spider : Solid option for Midrange Beast Hunter with Shredder gone.
8) Ram Wrangler : Ram Wrangler fills the curve between Tomb Spider and Highmane. It used to be awkward if you had to follow up Shredder. With Loatheb also gone it frees up a slot.
9) Spell slinger : Unstable Portal and Mad Scientist gone means Mage needs to fill an early drop in their Tempo decks, this fits nicely.
10) Tuskar Jouster : No Loatheb, Belcher and Healbot means Paladins will be hungry for a defensive 5 drop and this fits perfectly.
11) Murloc Knight : For Midrange Paladin, replaces Shredder was already really good.
12) Holy Champion : No Cultists and Deathlords mean that Priests need a solid body to contest the board and this fits the bill. This is for non Dragon variant of course. Works well with Blade master who I also expect to go up in value.
13) Wrath Guard : No eggs, creepers and possible Juggler nerf means that Zoolock will be thirsty for a 2 drop and this qualifies.
14) Brann : I expect more decks to use this to get more value out of certain cards like Vendor.
15) Excavated Evil : With Lightbomb gone this one allows Control Priests to have another board clear option in its place.
16) Mounted Raptor : Replacement for Shade of Naxx in Druid decks. .)
17) Forgotten Torch : If Mages need a Flame Cannon replacement they can try this.
18) Tomb Pillaged : No Shredder to snipe it makes it much stronger.
19) Savage Combatant : This card was already really good and saw play, will probably be staple for Druids now.
20) Obsidian Destroyer : The Dr Boom fill in for Warrior. If BGH gets nerfed this card will be really good.
SonicXtreme
Member
flame juggler is already great in the current meta since so many minions do 2 damage and are suspect to pinging (minibot, leper, most 1 drops etc)
and since 90% of the ladder is paladwin you can't go wrong having one nowadays
and since 90% of the ladder is paladwin you can't go wrong having one nowadays
Officerrob
Banned
Frodan said on Value Town that Blizzard was initially just talking about removing Naxx
Officerrob
Banned
I've played every brawl and have yet to get a legendary from the pack
irfaanator
Banned
can you discover a non standard format card? Like curator w/ shredders/sneeds/etc. That'd be interesting.
veloxStrix
Banned
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
A pirate rogue brawl?
Times really are a changin
Times really are a changin
Every brawl is secretly a Druid brawl.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Only taking away cards doesn't seem very enjoyable though, half the excitement is seeing how new cards fit in.
RumblingRosco
Member
Priest gets hit hard without GvG. It's so hard to say what'll happen though until things fall out a bit but I swear I'm bringing back my Shaman deck some how in this mess.
Leeroy + Windfury combo will live again.
Leeroy + Windfury combo will live again.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Man, Druid really does lose nothing outside of the really good neutral cards that every class uses.
Shade of Naxxramas is the only one there that specifically hurts druids.
One thing I realized while reading posts on r/competitivehs is that Evil Heckler is now a blatant power creep card that is actually relevant in the Standard meta since a lot of 4 damage removal is gone and there is no more Piloted Shredder.
Also Deathrattle Rogue is straight up destroyed less than one expansion after it's inception...
Also Deathrattle Rogue is straight up destroyed less than one expansion after it's inception...
The only big loss was lightbomb and maybe deathlord, and I'm sure that at least the first one will appear in some form in the new expansion or even be replaced by excavated evil
Also, Dragon Synergy will be better now
Professor Lich
Member
Considering Unearthed Raptor is gone in a year or whatnot, it's hard to say if it will ever be a thing in Standard.
Kotetsu534
Member
From playing Arena for years I know that even a relatively small charge in the card pool can have a noticeable impact on how the average game plays out (e.g. faster, slower, certain turns being significantly stronger than others), so I'm excited to see how Standard plays out after Naxx and GvG are removed (as long as Druid's combo is nerfed otherwise it will dominate everything in all likelihood). Very happy to see the back of Scientist, Shredder and Boom in particular, three cards which are just so effective and/or versatile that they're played by every deck they can fit into.
You know, it's interesting. The meta has evolved around dealing with GvG and Naxx cards. So if you come up with something that is cohesive, well thought out, but non-meta, it can still perform pretty well because the meta deck players don't know your plan. I've already seen evidence on the ladder that people are experimenting, even if they don't need to be doing so yet. That tells me people are excited to see things shake up.
just wanted to post a warlock deck ive been playing over the last 2 nights that ive had alot of success with
2x shadowflames have been immensely beneficial to me for taking out medium-zerg boards, and the 2x soul siphons have helped for taking about big minions and minions with big priest buffs
and theres enough big minions that dealing with them all for control classes like priest and warrior isn't an easy feat.
fuegen and stalogg are very high value minions for their cost into the late game and feugen is a very good taunt target
a hunter (with lifetap) just now probably thought he had me beat easily, i was down to like 9hp, he had 3 rando beats on the board and a haunted creeper that was just buffed by hound master, i molten giant then healbot, then power overwhelming on a 1/1 imp, ran it into the haunted creeper to bust it, then shadow flame my huge imp to delete his whole board
now hes got nothing and i got a big board, ive seen a few games over the last few days with this deck where i go from a very down position to a completely dominating position in 1-2 turns
and although i have been playing casual mode, ive been vsing alot of good decks, so yea, might not be amazing, but ive been having alot of success with it and its one of the best decks ive come up with for my decklist, atleast in my experience over the last few days
ive never made a warlock deck before that didn't have mortal coil, but it seems to be working well
wouldn't mind some advice for improvements, i dont have BRM, or LoE though
2x shadowflames have been immensely beneficial to me for taking out medium-zerg boards, and the 2x soul siphons have helped for taking about big minions and minions with big priest buffs
and theres enough big minions that dealing with them all for control classes like priest and warrior isn't an easy feat.
fuegen and stalogg are very high value minions for their cost into the late game and feugen is a very good taunt target
a hunter (with lifetap) just now probably thought he had me beat easily, i was down to like 9hp, he had 3 rando beats on the board and a haunted creeper that was just buffed by hound master, i molten giant then healbot, then power overwhelming on a 1/1 imp, ran it into the haunted creeper to bust it, then shadow flame my huge imp to delete his whole board
now hes got nothing and i got a big board, ive seen a few games over the last few days with this deck where i go from a very down position to a completely dominating position in 1-2 turns
and although i have been playing casual mode, ive been vsing alot of good decks, so yea, might not be amazing, but ive been having alot of success with it and its one of the best decks ive come up with for my decklist, atleast in my experience over the last few days
ive never made a warlock deck before that didn't have mortal coil, but it seems to be working well
wouldn't mind some advice for improvements, i dont have BRM, or LoE though
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Oil rogue lost... Loatheb, sword oil...
The other cards can be replaced easily. Shredder becomes pillager. Loatheb becomes some other 5 drop or perhaps even a 4 drop. Healbots can be replaced with ERF.
It just shows how little love Blizzard has shown rogue since classic.
--
Classic/basic card nerf wish list:
Innervate - refills empty crystals instead of giving full ones. That way there is no turn 1 way to spend 5-6 mana.
Savage Roar - 4 mana instead of 3.
Knife Juggler - 3 mana instead of 2.
Animal Companion - Completely re-write or remove it.
Summon a 2/3 boar + 1 attack to minions with charge.
That pretty much covers what I can think of off the top of my head.
The other cards can be replaced easily. Shredder becomes pillager. Loatheb becomes some other 5 drop or perhaps even a 4 drop. Healbots can be replaced with ERF.
It just shows how little love Blizzard has shown rogue since classic.
--
Classic/basic card nerf wish list:
Innervate - refills empty crystals instead of giving full ones. That way there is no turn 1 way to spend 5-6 mana.
Savage Roar - 4 mana instead of 3.
Knife Juggler - 3 mana instead of 2.
Animal Companion - Completely re-write or remove it.
Summon a 2/3 boar + 1 attack to minions with charge.
/s
That pretty much covers what I can think of off the top of my head.
Apparently I kicked blizzards puppy or something b/c this was the worst brawl experience I've ever had. 5 losses straight with me getting 5(!) useless cogmasters wrenches and three cursed blades while my opponents get constant arcanite reapers, gorehowls, and doomhammers. The only reason I managed to get my own win was due to an enemy rogue getting their own cursed blade right after I got a free Nefarian on the board from a deathlord.
Screw you blingtron, I'm glad you're getting kicked out of Standard
Screw you blingtron, I'm glad you're getting kicked out of Standard
Professor Lich
Member
Did we ever get an answer about new players and old adventures? All I know is that they're removing them from the store but I think it's a bit of a bummer if new players never get a chance to play old adventures.
I think you have to do something with Force of Nature. Savage Roar is a card that at least relies on the druid having board presence. Which is something the opponent has a chance to contest. Force of Nature is actually a nuke spell (like fireball) in disguise. It should be costed appropriately -- 6 mana for 6 damage is pretty fair generally so that doesn't seem off. The reason it's so powerful is that it summons the 6 damage in the form of 3 charge minions. If FoN read: "Deal 6 damage" no one would play it. It might end up in some crazy Malygos druid, but that's about it. Even if it let you deal 2 damage 3 times (making it super scalable with spellpower, like Swipe is) it still would be way less problematic than its current form. Being able to buff a nuke spell without board presence is a problem. Spellpower requires some form or board presence to function which allows the opponent to interact. Force of Nature as written currently, doesn't.
All the suggestions to make Force of Nature into minions without charge or to nerf Savage Roar are missing the point. Savage Roar seems like an OK card in a world where Force of Nature is a damage spell. I suspect both cards get changed because Blizzard doesn't like to take half steps in their usage of the nerf bat, but IMO its really only Force of Nature that is the problem.
Singularity42
Member
I suppose i should get that heroic naxx finished before it's gone
If you already own the adventure, you will still be able to play it after the switch. It's not being removed from the game, just the Shop.
Singularity42
Member
Well that's good to know.
Well, I mean, if you think about it, Druid losing technically nothing (wait till the basic/classic nerfs =/) means we've been getting absolutely fuck all through these expansions. No wonder combo is the only thing people gravitate towards when slower stuff (eg. Ramp) stopped being viable.
Checking my Druid deck the only cards I'm using are Grove Tender (bad card, but I will miss it actually- it played the double role of subbing Wild Growth and having card draw with a body in a commonly weak turn for Druid), Kezan (tech) Loatheb and Boom. Beast Druid loses a few more things...
...which makes me realize that unless they redouble their focus on tribes each new expansion+adventure, they are going to be even more useless than they are now. It could mean less fucking stupid decisions bringing down a class (Hi Neptulon! Would you kindly finally fuck off now you useless card?), but this is Blizzard we are talking about, so it could mean the opposite, that is, a whole year+ where Blizzard decides to put out mostly tribe cards for a class. I sincerely hope not but I do think this decision flies on the face of that effort.
Final random thoughts: it will suck that some cards in the game already won't get its time to shine as they are because they came out with much more OP stuff. But it also makes it so relatively "failed" expansions like TGT will do get more breathing room in the future, on account of the viable card pool being smaller.
Checking my Druid deck the only cards I'm using are Grove Tender (bad card, but I will miss it actually- it played the double role of subbing Wild Growth and having card draw with a body in a commonly weak turn for Druid), Kezan (tech) Loatheb and Boom. Beast Druid loses a few more things...
...which makes me realize that unless they redouble their focus on tribes each new expansion+adventure, they are going to be even more useless than they are now. It could mean less fucking stupid decisions bringing down a class (Hi Neptulon! Would you kindly finally fuck off now you useless card?), but this is Blizzard we are talking about, so it could mean the opposite, that is, a whole year+ where Blizzard decides to put out mostly tribe cards for a class. I sincerely hope not but I do think this decision flies on the face of that effort.
Final random thoughts: it will suck that some cards in the game already won't get its time to shine as they are because they came out with much more OP stuff. But it also makes it so relatively "failed" expansions like TGT will do get more breathing room in the future, on account of the viable card pool being smaller.
That would get rid of the ridiculous FoN + Roar + Innervate + Roar, but other than that I don't think it's really enough. Maybe if FoN summoned 2 3/3 minions.