Rarity has nothing to do with card power. It is about card complexity. And keeper is definitely less complex than Anyfin Can Happen. Making that card a common would be infinitely more stupid considering it is a trash card in arena.
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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Rarity has nothing to do with card power. It is about card complexity. And keeper is definitely less complex than Anyfin Can Happen. Making that card a common would be infinitely more stupid considering it is a trash card in arena.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
It definitely does when it comes to arena where Paladin decks can have 3-4 Keepers regularly.
toddhunter
Member
Well, legendaries excluded, since they have actual deck limitations. What I mean is that rares are not supposed to be better on average than commons, and epics are not supposed to be better on average than rares. Blizzard has generally used rarity to slow down the rate that people (especially new players) obtain more complex or difficult to understand cards. That's why you see a lot of weird cards as epics, for example. That's why every card that is only stats with no text is a common. That's why rares with single keywords don't happen all that often.
RumblingRosco
Member
Awesome, I knew someone on here had been running one. I'll look through your history, but please toss up your newest list when you have a chance!
So why is Bolster a common?
I totally know what you are saying but I wanted to make a jab at Bolster.
Trump just confirmed there is a press event on the 9th. The embargo presumably lifts on the 11th.
Keeper being a common makes it easier to pick in arena but that doesn't mean it is inherently a better card. Just that it is a great card that sees more use.
Now if your only consideration for rarity in adventures is arena balance then I see why keeper as a common is frustrating. But the alternative here is that you swap its rarity with Anyfin Can Happen, and making what is essentially a complex and constructed-only card a common would do is throw in a ton of dead slots in Paladin arena drafts, which is its own brand of stupid.
Keeper honestly doesn't make sense as a Common when it's about card complexity. The card is more complex to use than Aldor Peacekeepers which is a Rare.
Anyfin should be an Epic card. Issue is that LoE cards don't have epics for classes so they are usually Rares for the weird ones. Maybe they should give classes two commons, a rare and an epic going forward.
Anyfin should be an Epic card. Issue is that LoE cards don't have epics for classes so they are usually Rares for the weird ones. Maybe they should give classes two commons, a rare and an epic going forward.
Actually, it kind of is. It would not be immediately obvious to a new player why you shouldn't put two of them in your decks. It is an easy to card to understand on its face but has much more nuance in deck building.
Rarity is more weird in adventures than regular expansions. I feel like they stopped putting epics in adventures after Naxx because they wanted to encourage people to craft gold adventure cards, since you can't earn gold adventure cards, you can only craft them.
I think we all know Savage Roar is prolly getting nuked from orbit, "Soul of the Card" style.
Besides that my leading candidates are:
- Alextrasza
For the obvious combo-enabling reasons. It doesn't need to be totally changed either IMO. Removing a lot of the OTKs & huge burst from Standard will make the card inherently less useful as well. - All the Giants
I think that Molten and Mountain are the big offenders here (and Mountain really only in Warlock), but Molten FOR SURE. Molten is just a really weird card in that it is really only accessible for Warlocks and also enables their most powerful AoE spell for 0 mana. Mountain Giant is less probelmatic but is still really only accessible for Warlocks, AND happens to work well in allowing them to take damage to enable Moltens at the same time. I don't have much beef with Sea Giant, but it might have issues in a world where Blizzard wants everyone competing for the board all the time. - Knife Juggler
Will always be the best 2 drop so long as the ability remains untouched. Too much versatility. Making it played (ie cards from hand) minions only is a good compromise. - Keeper of the Grove/Ancient of Lore
Probably don't need to change both of those after Roar is changed, but if they don't those will remain auto-includes in most druid decks for a good long time.
That's my short list of the most pervasive "problematic" ones. I think there is a few other super obvious include
I don't think Alex needs a nerf. Everybody always talks about her enabling combos, but the only combo deck she's used in is Freeze Mage. It's not like people use her in Miracle Rogue or anything.
Just fix freeze mage. She's fine in every other deck. The real issues come from the huge stall kit that Mage has, like Frost Nova and Ice Block.
Just fix freeze mage. She's fine in every other deck. The real issues come from the huge stall kit that Mage has, like Frost Nova and Ice Block.
Control Warrior using Alex then killing you with Grommash and Taskmaster is pretty stupid too (with weapon equipped).
Just because only one combo deck uses Alex right now doesn't mean future decks wouldn't exploit it either. Plus I think it enabling Freeze Mage would be enough to get it nerfed just like they might nerf Molten Giants just for Handlock. The Freeze mechanic doesn't mean much if you don't have to worry about a two turn kill combo.
Just because only one combo deck uses Alex right now doesn't mean future decks wouldn't exploit it either. Plus I think it enabling Freeze Mage would be enough to get it nerfed just like they might nerf Molten Giants just for Handlock. The Freeze mechanic doesn't mean much if you don't have to worry about a two turn kill combo.
The stalling doesn't matter though if they don't have a way to kill you. Alex is the win condition for that deck.
You can't really make Control Warrior work without that combo though. You'd force Warrior into a gimpy midrange spec without her.
Alexstrasza isn't the only win condition, but she is certainly one of the win conditions, and makes the deck more consistent. Malygos isn't a great substitute, because he lends extra value to the same cards as Antonidas, so it can be a little shitty if you draw them both.
I don't agree, Warrior can win with Grommash as its win condition. It has a bunch of high end legendaries to do damage before the Grommash finish.
Not every game of CW is won with Alex.
SonicXtreme
Member
i used this for the beginning of january
i evolved into this cheaper jeeves version by the end of the month, since card draw was irritating me
it's hard to pilot, i got to rank 7 but most people played them for a game or two got wrecked and gave up lol. with zoo everywhere now you could consider an excavated evil or lightbomb. evil is amazing vs aggro, since it really doesn't matter that you give them a card, lightbomb is obvi good for all that high value stuff they have.
the first deck t6-8 is usually where you can win and finish it, holy fire can be used to delay your death a turn and give you enough life to survive one more for some mindblasts or however you can finish them. the second one you can afford to have a little longer game with jeeves bringing you back.
spitting out a ton of 1 drops early is key, you can do a lot of damage quickly if you get 4/5 threats by turn 3. the way they play you don't want to trade a lot, and a lot of wins will come by a hair, but it was viable for me. after the early game of flooding the board you can use higher value chargers to knock life down and win t6-9. now that i own the black knight, i might consider dropping him in a list actually, since taunts are a big issue. but, shadowbomber, smite, mindblast, holy fire all work past taunts, so you want to save those for later to suprise your opponent with big finishing turns
brann is another guy that might help, makes the shadowbombers get 6 damage each past taunt and you can health juice him. i only didn't put him in because there's only maybe half a dozen cards that synergize, and i won most games by using my mana and not really worrying about combos and such, it's suicidey, you take a lot of damage but say idc cos you can deal a lot
spawn of shadows is just too slow, you kinda have to say fuck it come at me bro and like i said most of my wins are by turn 7, no time to let spawn sit in my hand when leeroy or holy fire could have put in the finishing blow
nowaday's i've been toying with a resurrect type deck, trying adding removal simply because zoo. is. everywhere, with a list stacked with high attack charge minions like arcanes and not much low stuff in order to abuse resurrect and snag free arcanes or leeroys or something and using excavated evil and/or lightbomb, but idk the idea might not be viable
GetDigitized
Member
Can somebody explain how cancelling quests works? Sometimes it gets replaced by another quest, other times it's left a blank space.
Also... I have a quest to watch somebody win, can anybody help me out? EU.
Also... I have a quest to watch somebody win, can anybody help me out? EU.
If you cancel it I think it should be replaced all the time. If not maybe log out and then back in?
SonicXtreme
Member
shadow word: death is pretty good too, since it messes with belcher well. i wouldn't run more than one though because of the low card draw and need to face face face. idk if i'd take excavated evil or lightbomb, or one of each. they both have good benefits, and work well with argent horserider. but getting two in hand would really ruin you. that's why removal really has to be kept to a minimum.
Portugeezer
Member
Any EU people playing? Need to spectate for pack.
GetDigitized
Member
Oh, that explains what happened last time, I logged in after a day though so I thought my quest just refreshed. Thanks.
Portugeezer
Member
Add me Pinto #2174
RumblingRosco
Member
I guess you mean Shadow Word: Pain? But yeah, thanks for the list and write-up! I'm excited to try it. I've played Priest more than any class besides Shaman and I've never tried a non-Control Priest.
SonicXtreme
Member
nah, death is better, because it will help with tazdingo, belcher, annoyotron, etc, stuff that's blocking your charges and attacks. you can't worry about big threats with the deck, you gotta yolo, you have tools to deal 10 damage turns to finish anyway. i gained gold fast with it since the games are decided in single digit turns either way. i wouldn't run pain, because your goal is to make the game end quickly before they can lay down expensive stuff. that's my experience anyway, hope to hear tweaks and comments for sure!
Pain is for minions with 3 or less damage, death is for minions with 5 or more.
toddhunter
Member
It might change when "Naxx is out", but for now I don't even run Alex in CW. If you survive long enough to even use it you are going to win anyway.
The problem is more being broken in the odd brawl. I don't think we should be nerfing cards that are viable in exactly two decks, both of which are easily hard countered by other decks.
SonicXtreme
Member
whoops i'm an idiot, you're right pain is the one for aggro priest, IMO
SonicXtreme
Member
i think i like this for the current meta
loatheb would be cash, but idk where to drop him, like i said it kinda lives and dies on quick wins, which is good for gold $$$$. excavated could be swapped for lightbomb, idk they both kinda have their pros and cons, i have EE for now on personal preference
a one off of dark iron dwarf is tempting too, but again keeping the curve low low low is the only reason its viable kinda. although as always any game i lose against control makes me want a second jeeves. then i play an aggro deck and get both in my hand and think the other way. input would be swell
loatheb would be cash, but idk where to drop him, like i said it kinda lives and dies on quick wins, which is good for gold $$$$. excavated could be swapped for lightbomb, idk they both kinda have their pros and cons, i have EE for now on personal preference
a one off of dark iron dwarf is tempting too, but again keeping the curve low low low is the only reason its viable kinda. although as always any game i lose against control makes me want a second jeeves. then i play an aggro deck and get both in my hand and think the other way. input would be swell
And not every aggro shaman game is won because a tunnel trogg got out of control, but if you take tunnel trogg out of the deck it becomes a whole lot worse.
SonicXtreme
Member
aggro priest faster than face hunter BTW
I don't think Streamers contribute much to Tavern Brawls. If anything streamers try to innovate in Brawls.
If anything you can play Brawl for a few matches, be paired against a Mage, lose in the most bull shit fashion and then proceed to just x-copy what you lost against.
Yeah but most people wouldn't think of some stupid combo because they forget about a card existing. A streamer might do a game or two with it and laugh and have fun, but then their viewers take it to the extreme and only play that for the rest of the brawl.
SonicXtreme
Member
so who here started playing aggro priest? just won a mirror match...
too fast for hunters to keep up with, the buffs is too strong
Ball of Portals. You heard it first here.
bronkonagurski
Member
Not me but I am thinking about trying it now. Looks interesting. The element of surprise has to be pretty strong.
SonicXtreme
Member
its cray cray, i love running it in casual because you get insta concedes from classes like control warrior, which is hilarious because they're actually the bad matchups, so gold comes crazy quick in casual since matchups that are actually bad often concede before they know what they're doing
screws with plenty of high tier meta decks too, i'm really liking shadow word in it, taunts were hurting me when i first made it, but mind blast is so money when you need lethal, and holy fire can surpass them too if you include one, it's a little fringe though admittedly
and as i stated, you very often win by the hair of your chinny chin chin, but if you pilot well who cares. reno makes me want to self harm tho XD
SonicXtreme
Member
hmm now with shadow word pain shrinkmeister might deserve a slot though....i hate hate running card combos in aggro priest and trading, since it has to win fast due to trash card draw unless you double jeeves, but i can't say that isn't super tempting.
i really should find room for brann first tho
i really should find room for brann first tho