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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
I could see this, but I could also see a world where all 4 gods are neutral and they can still do class specific legendaries. If the wording is correct and like half the expansion are just gods + their modifiers, still leaves like 60+ cards to be spread out. Even if they gave each class just 1 legendary, still would be a lot to spread around
BananasWithGuns
Member
So I doubt it'll be the least bit reliable but C'thun in Druid could be fun to try.
Get a Thaurissan proc on Aviana then Aviana + Brann + C'thun, or there's always Innervate as well.
Get a Thaurissan proc on Aviana then Aviana + Brann + C'thun, or there's always Innervate as well.
Yeah I am excited to try some Aviana shenanigans in a world where there is no BGH.
LyleLanley
Banned
It gets rid of fun cards too quickly.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
It's a 3 cost minion with 4 attack that can kill powerful cards instantly and makes multiple cards straight up unplayable, forcing everyone to play battlecry minions with instant value
It gets rid of the "I win if I have more legendaries than you" part of the game.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
The battlecry itself is an average of a 4 mana swing, and the minion left behind can easily turn it into a 2 for 1 card swing + more mana on top of that.
Dr. Boom at least traded with the minion left behind thanks to boom bots, and Alexstraza/Ragnoros have fast and powerful enough card text to get value before BGH, but BGH vs most other 7+ attack creatures can alone cost you the game.
That's not really a valid reason. You actually do NOT want the game to boil down to who has the most legendary cards in their deck.
BGH is ridiculous because it makes using particular costly cards a GAME LOSING play. You spend whole turn playing a card, it gets countered by BGH and they play a midranged minion alongside it while retaining whatever board position they had before.
I think something that gets rid of powerful minions should exist. Polymorph is that thing, or Equality, or Siphon Soul. That kind of removal should be a spell and all classes should have some kind of access to it (depending on how it works into their class).
Having the removal attached to a body gives such a massive tempo swing (remove huge 7+ atk minion and get a 4 atk one), that is can be completely unrecoverable. Better to not run BGH targets and play a lower cost or less impactful minion that can't be so easily swung against.
Having the removal attached to a body gives such a massive tempo swing (remove huge 7+ atk minion and get a 4 atk one), that is can be completely unrecoverable. Better to not run BGH targets and play a lower cost or less impactful minion that can't be so easily swung against.
CelticKnight
Member
Just jumped on for an hour after watching the stream got me in the mood, wish I didn't bother. It's just aggro deck after aggro deck... Face! Face! Faaace!!!
Does everyone just Google the same decks or something?
Does everyone just Google the same decks or something?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Just look at BGH compared to those class specific removals.
Execute is 1 mana but requires an activator so 2 cards plus more mana.
Shadow Word Death and Hex are 3 mana and Polymorph is 4 mana but doesn't give you a minion, with Hex and polymorph giving your opponent a minion.
Assassinate is 5 mana and Siphon Soul is 6 mana, again not doing anything else for tempo but removing the creature.
BGH's only drawback is being limited to 7 attack creatures, but do we really want 6 attack to be the cap for popular minions outside of the ones that have really good battlecries?
People rather play a deck where a game takes 5 minuets then a deck where a game takes 20 minutes.
BananasWithGuns
Member
So, this is interesting.
https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/708457371912122368
C'thun Rogue anyone?
https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/708457371912122368
C'thun Rogue anyone?
Seems to work like bolvar does, how does he come back from a resurrect? Is he back down to 1 damage?
Why?
That card existing single handedly ensures there will never be a 7 attack minion that is just good. It will always be complete trash or stupid OP.
Worst designed card in the game.
Yup, add brann to he mix to use with cultist as well.
Turn 9, brann + 2x Beckoner of Evil + conceal
Turn 10 cthun.
28 damage cthun if you can't get rid of that stealthed brann.
If brann dies, turn 10 drop 14 damage (or more depending in how much you've been developing it) cthub and instantly pick it back up with shadowstep, turn 11 drop it again.
i've been wiggling around my tech card in demon zoo, went from sea giant to void terror, thinking about brann or boom, but i put in enhance-o-mech and it's helped me win a few matches whereas Void terror has done nothing several times. I'd build it up and it would get silenced/executed/whatevered.
Try playing some games with one or two high end legendaries with 7+ attack and no battlecries/deathrattles and get back to me on how reasonable the card is.
toddhunter
Member
You would probably do ok considering just about all the top decks in the meta don't actually run BGH at the moment.
If BGH gets nerfed, welcome back to handlock city.
Its a bad card. You can have 2 in your deck in addition to all the removal class cards available to your class. It massively devalues all 'large' minions forever and ALWAYS as long as it stays in its current state. Its just poor design. Unless its nerfed all cards with 7 attack or more will always be fodder for it. Really stupid.
I think most expect those giants to be nerfed too. Handlock is unlikely to escape this all unscathed.
You can run class removal cards if you want that effect. There's nothing wrong with your assassinates, saps, entombs, deaths, naturalizes, siphon souls deadly shots, hex, humility, polymorph execute, mind controls, crush, Mulch and the like. You can also counter with equally large minions or trading. Theres also stuff like doomsayer and others. BGH is just overkill. Waaaaay overkill.
toddhunter
Member
You would hope so. BGH is the fairest card in the world after your opponent drops a 0 cost 8/8.
I forget which interview, but they noted that they felt it would be bad for the game if Handlock was a deck that was around forever. I took that to mean they intend to address the giants.
I think Kibler is right in that the reason BGH exists in the first place was that people were having issues dealing with Mountain Giants on turn four, and this gave every deck a way to fight back.
However, its broad impacts are tremendous in the same way Master of Disguise and Warsong Commander caused major issues. Not only are you harming 7+ attack cards tremendously, but you're straining the entire nature of how classes are supposed to have varying quality of removal to help balance other elements of the class.
Nerfing the giants instead is the far more straightforward solution.
They said "over the weekend" so I assume they meant more in the other days of the tournament.
Charge -
King Krush, Icehowl
End of your turn -
Geddon (garbage 2 damage), Rag,
Nothing -
Velen on curve, Mogor, Illidan on curve, Gruul, Flame Leviathan, Noz, Mekgineer Thermaplugg
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Legendary_card_list
Every other 7 attack legendary has a battlecry or deathrattle. I wouldn't be filling my deck with any of those that do nothing if played on curve like Velen or Illidan, hell I wouldn't even play any of those legendaries that don't have a battlecry, deathrattle, or even end of turn. Why would I? They suck? Are you? Clearly the vast vast vast majority of 7 attack legendaries (28 right now) get some value, 8 of them have the possibility of getting no use out of them when played if they are BGH'ed. Now you could add Geddon to the list of garbage one cause it will probably get in 2 damage and that's it. If BGH was gone, would you suddenly start playing Mogor cause at least he'll survive?
I think that a miracle c'thun could be interesting if the other specific cards help it
If we look at arena where removal is class and weapon based and doesn't include BGH for almost everyone, things like Icehowl and Gruul actually have some usability.
Removing BGH makes it more feasible to attempt a ramp or control archetype where you're ending with a couple of big creatures after forcing out their removal through the earlier stages of the match, or by being slightly greedier and having something like four big threats. It's still vulnerable to classes with strong removal, or to midrange decks built around punishing control archetypes, which is what the normal counter to these types of decks is, instead of making it so any deck on earth can blow up these cards if they want.
There are almost no control decks at this point. The two causes of this are the comical strength and stickiness of the tempo midrange cards (which is being addressed via nerfs and the standard format) and that simply teching in a BGH makes anyone able to throw these types of decks off a cliff.
That the whole idea of having a playable 10 mana card (or even 8 or 9 in most cases) that doesn't instantly win the game is a new concept to Hearthstone illustrates the problem. Hell, an actual Control Warrior isn't even a viable archetype right now and that's basically what the class was built to do. You're trying to sneak in your big minions with Elise at this point, and prior we had "midrange control warrior" coming into favor.
The reason handlock even worked is that it could run giants for zero to four mana so that losing one to a BGH wasn't a game ender. That the deck BGH was designed to punish is the one that can actually survive it points to the original design problem being that giants are way too good.
If you get a control heavy meta you can still make a cheap deck that feeds on them all day. It's certainly not a scenario where having the most legendaries makes you win. You're even opting to play notably slower matches at that point which you're distinctly not rewarded for doing at higher levels of the ladder system.
toddhunter
Member
Makes sense.
I don't think I've ever seen Master of Disguise played outside of some random brawl. Not that I'm disagreeing with the design problems it causes, but it would have been nice for Blizzard to put one card in that worked with it so we could at least see some non-miracle rogue mayhem.
Consider what would happen if you could stealth Animated Armor or Mal'ganis. It forces those kinds of designs onto class cards.
It's not that 7 attack minions need Battlecry or Deathrattle, it's that they need ridiculously overpowered effects in order to be worth it.
Alexstrasza can heal for 14 or do 15 damage. That's an insane ability. The card is bad in any deck that doesn't set-up for lethal the very next turn, because it's a 9 mana card that's could die to a 3 mana card for free. Even that effect isn't powerful enough.
Hearthstone is a game based around tempo and board control. BGH makes it so every slow card with 7+ attack has a chance to be a game-losing tempo loss. Every 7 attack minion in the game, with the possible exception of Fel Reaver (which is a gimmick card) would be better at 6 attack than 7+. That is idiotic to the extreme.
BananasWithGuns
Member
As a Secret Paladin, why would you change your hero power to Steady Shot knowing you're facing a Zoolock? Doesn't make any sense to me.
The less thinking a Secret Paladin player has to do, the better.
The real question is why you will play sir finley mrggglton as secret paladin, but is I had to give an answer, maybe he wants to finish the game soon
BananasWithGuns
Member
Yeah, it was odd. He had Boom and Tirion in his deck it was still the slower variant.
Not sure what he was thinking but I crushed him both times we matched up so whatever I guess lol.
Depends on a lot of factors. Rank 20-15 always seems to be one priest after the other.
I just want to point out that the art for the Corrupted Healbot is seriously badass.
Really makes me wish they would at least release more art from the new cards, not just the ones released so far.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I just want to point out that the art for the Corrupted Healbot is seriously badass.
Looks like some WH40K shit
BananasWithGuns
Member
The art for all the cards they showed us today is really great in my opinion. The golden versions are awesome as well, I just wish they had put up larger images of them.
I think less zoo/deathrattle playstyle in the meta alone would make him way more playable.