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[Apathy]

15 minutes till reddit shows off their card, and it looks like it's going to be a legendary (if you hover over it on the subreddit it glows orange)

 

[sibarraz]

In 15 minutes a new card will be revealed on reddit

edit: beaten.

 

[Karsticles]

While mill is actively going for something, I don't find there's much that can be done since it's so reliant on the mercy of what deck you happen to be queued up as. When it gets going you can't really do anything. Once a rogue starts ganging up coldlights you can't really extend on the board and push because prep - vanish kills everything and then mills you more, and the HP pool at the end even at 30 can just go away in one huge burst turn(especially with brann) while they added a bunch of additional cards to their deck which makes the symmetric draw not an issue.

It's a REALLY fun deck to play but awful to fight. You basically win if you're aggro, but I don't like the match being decided right at the matchup screen.

Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me - all of my decks are aggro variants.

 

[Dahbomb]

That's fair. I would rather face Mill over Fatigue, though, because I feel like Mill is actively trying to do something, and you CAN counter it in some ways (maximizing face damage, keeping your health full, not drawing cards, having cards in your deck that replenish your deck stock), but there's no real answer to Fatigue other than being more boring than your opponent.

Answer to fatigue deck is to play a solid Midrange deck and just produce more solid bodies than they can handle or play a combo deck because they can allow you all the time to set up. Or play Jaraxxus.

Answer to Mill deck is face/tempo decks, sometimes combo decks. Fatigue and control decks are hard countered by Mill. Handlock would always lose to Mill if it weren't for Jaraxxus but if Jaraxxus gets milled then you need to click that concede button ASAP.

When you play a control deck against a Mill deck it's one of the worst feeling in the world, about as bad as going against CW as Freeze Mage. Your removals and AOEs just sit in your hand while they wipe your deck.

 

[ZealousD]

Thanks for the clarification but I'm sure I'll get it confused again.

I still see it as somewhat of a shame because I feel like you could do some complicated, yet cool, combos if it worked how I'd hoped. Still a cool card overall though.

If you are really interested in Hearthstone's intricacies you basically have to study the advanced rulebook and the videos that Patashu (Hearthstone Science) puts out. Even then I had to go through them several times to figure out how all this stuff works. You start to get an appreciation for all the weird interactions because you realize that if every card worked exactly how the majority expected it to at all times that Blizzard would be doing an awful lot of hard coded interactions with inconsistent rules.

 

[squidyj]

I haven't heard that here - source?

I guess we'll see won't we?

 

[luoapp]

This draft.....................



[/IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MQqidMT.gif[/IMG]

ok, how many wins you've got?

 

[ViviOggi]

ok, how many wins you've got?

Stopped at 3-0 for today

 

[ZealousD]

When you play a control deck against a Mill deck it's one of the worst feeling in the world, about as bad as going against CW as Freeze Mage. Your removals and AOEs just sit in your hand while they wipe your deck.

Yeah like a solid and sticky midrange deck can counter control pretty well but at least the control deck can use their tools. A control deck up against a fatigue deck has about a billion dead cards in their hand and you lose all sense of control. You throw crap onto the board to prevent overdraw and then the fatigue deck has all the options they need to remove the threats you do have.

 

[bjaelke]

 

[Nirolak]

I'm kind of interested in how they intend to represent that visually.

 

[georly]

Oh whaaaaaaaaat

I'm kind of interested in how they intend to represent that visually.

Yeah. Usually once a minion 'changes' it doesn't change back, nor continue to do what the original minion did.


I love the card. I don't know what deck it fits in, but I love it. I wonder what the math on him is.

 

[Professor Lich]

If you are really interested in Hearthstone's intricacies you basically have to study the advanced rulebook and the videos that Patashu (Hearthstone Science) puts out. Even then I had to go through them several times to figure out how all this stuff works. You start to get an appreciation for all the weird interactions because you realize that if every card worked exactly how the majority expected it to at all times that Blizzard would be doing an awful lot of hard coded interactions with inconsistent rules.

Yeah, I've watched a few of those, and it is pretty insane. Have to hand it to those who do all that testing just to find out exactly how it all works.

Makes me wonder what they'll end up finding out about WotG cards and the like.

 

[Szadek]

More Trolden cards.

 

[ZealousD]

That card... Huh? So it turns into a Yeti in your hand but then the Yeti could turn into something else? I am so confused.

 

[Ladekabel]

This can either be entirely useless or game winning. I like it.

 

[bunbun777]

I luvvvvvv it. First one I've seen that needs to be crafted solid gold.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Strange card.

I'm sure it would be worth running in some decks though, just for the chance of getting a strong card from another class.

 

[georly]

This can either be entirely useless or game winning. I like it.

What if it transforms into cthun in your cthun deck? Same cthun buffs!?

I luvvvvvv it. First one I've seen that needs to be crafted solid gold.

yeah, this might be my favorite card in all of hearthstone, regardless of how people rank it.

 

[FeD.nL]

Hmm, so you're kinda hoping it morphs into something useable for that turn, or else it changes again?

 

[Iryx]

So it's basically esportal without the cost reduction.

 

[f0lken]

I'm kind of interested in how they intend to represent that visually.

Maybe it just changes the artwork

 

[Karsticles]

Shifter Zerus is great, but what kind of deck do you put him in?...

Answer to fatigue deck is to play a solid Midrange deck and just produce more solid bodies than they can handle or play a combo deck because they can allow you all the time to set up. Or play Jaraxxus.

Answer to Mill deck is face/tempo decks, sometimes combo decks. Fatigue and control decks are hard countered by Mill. Handlock would always lose to Mill if it weren't for Jaraxxus but if Jaraxxus gets milled then you need to click that concede button ASAP.

When you play a control deck against a Mill deck it's one of the worst feeling in the world, about as bad as going against CW as Freeze Mage. Your removals and AOEs just sit in your hand while they wipe your deck.

Makes sense.

I guess we'll see won't we?

Okay...

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

It transforms once then it's no longer the same card or does it somehow transform and then transform and over and over... seems too RNG or weak in either case.

If it keeps transforming, then MAYBE it's playable in control because eventually it will produce a good result. BUT, when does it transform? Start of turn or end?

 

[ZealousD]

So it's basically esportal without the cost reduction.

It's maybe better than that? If you don't like the result you wait a turn and get a reroll?

 

[bunbun777]

It's going to be so funny/painful to see paletress summon this 'Lil cutie.

 

[FeD.nL]

So it's each turn. So it also changes on the opponent's turn?

 

[Apathy]

That card... Huh? So it turns into a Yeti in your hand but then the Yeti could turn into something else? I am so confused.

Pretty much, although I wonder if turn also means opponents turn cause it does not say at the start of your next turn or at the end of your turn.

So draw it, you get this guy, when your tun comes around it'll be a yeti, you dont play it, next turn that yeti tuns into a murloc warleader. Don't play it and that murloc war leader turns to yogg.

Maybe they'll dis play it as at the start of your turn it will change to a different card, but if you chose to not play it, while its your opponents turn it will change back to this little guy till the start of your turn again when it will change to something new again.

 

[RecRoulette]

Trying to think of why the cost/stats would matter if it changes while it's in your hand. Dark Peddler could discover it right? Is there more?

 

[georly]

Maybe it just changes the artwork

It transforms once then it's no longer the same card or does it somehow transform and then transform and over and over... seems too RNG or weak in either case.

When you play it, does your opponent know it was a shifter or do they just say "wait, why would he put that into his deck? Wait is it shifter?"

Trying to think of why the cost/stats would matter if it changes while it's in your hand. Dark Peddler could discover it right? Is there more?

That's a good call. Camel kills it too.

 

[Dahbomb]

The way it works in HS is:

*Control beats Aggro (so Control Priest and Control Warrior will beat a Face Hunter)
*Midrange beats Control (so Midrange Druid/Hunter/Paladin will beat Control Warrior/Priest)
*Aggro beats Combo (so Face Hunter/Shaman will beat Oil Rogue)
*Combo beats Control (Oil Rogue beats Control Priest)
*Mill/Fatigue beats Control (so Mill Rogue will beat Control Warrior/Priest)
*Aggro beats Mill/Fatigue


There are of course some exceptions in this. Freeze Mage is a combo deck that beats Control Priest yet also beats aggro decks but loses to Control Warrior. Grim Patron is a Midrange tempo-ish deck that wins against aggro but loses against Control. Handlock's Jaraxxus allows it to win some match ups that it wouldn't otherwise.


Aggro and tempo decks generally counter more archetypes in the game than any other archetype.

 

[Singularity42]

About time we got a Dr. 1


I like that card alot.

 

[Karsticles]

It transforms once then it's no longer the same card or does it somehow transform and then transform and over and over... seems too RNG or weak in either case.

I am looking at it this way:
A discover card is usually good because it lets you choose between 3 options for a proper answer to the situation you are in.

This card is like a discover card that produces 1 option per turn, so the longer he sits in your hand, the longer you have to get a GREAT answer to what's going on.

The way it works in HS is:

*Control beats Aggro (so Control Priest and Control Warrior will beat a Face Hunter)
*Midrange beats Control (so Midrange Druid/Hunter/Paladin will beat Control Warrior/Priest)
*Aggro beats Combo (so Face Hunter/Shaman will beat Oil Rogue)
*Combo beats Control (Oil Rogue beats Control Priest)
*Mill/Fatigue beats Control (so Mill Rogue will beat Control Warrior/Priest)
*Aggro beats Mill/Fatigue


There are of course some exceptions in this. Freeze Mage is a combo deck that beats Control Priest yet also beats aggro decks but loses to Control Warrior. Grim Patron is a Midrange tempo-ish deck that wins against aggro but loses against Control. Handlock's Jaraxxus allows it to win some match ups that it wouldn't otherwise.


Aggro and tempo decks generally counter more archetypes in the game than any other archetype.

So the moral of the story is that Control sucks?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

When you play it, does your opponent know it was a shifter or do they just say "wait, why would he put that into his deck? Wait is it shifter?"

Probably will say created by "shifter" like esportal.

 

[Papercuts]

Neat card, atleast.

Awful topdeck, though. Need to wait atleast an entire turn for it to be 'playable' and even then, you might feel inclined to play what he turns into instead of something that fits your curve better. Seems too clunky to me.

 

[FeD.nL]

So you draw it > 1/1 > opponent's turn > switches > your turn > switches and so forth.

 

[irfaanator]

so if you go first and draw it in your opening hand, does it immediately change or at the start of your 2nd turn? Can you silence it back to a 1/1? Otherwise a more interesting unstable portal

 

[georly]

Probably will say created by "shifter" like esportal.

But it's not CREATED by, it *is* shifter.

so if you go first and draw it in your opening hand, does it immediately change or at the start of your 2nd turn? Can you silence it back to a 1/1? Otherwise a more interesting unstable portal

I assume it's like faceless manipulator and silencing only silences its new form, doesn't revert back into a faceless.

 

[FeD.nL]

so if you go first and draw it in your opening hand, does it immediately change or at the start of your 2nd turn? Can you silence it back to a 1/1? Otherwise a more interesting unstable portal

The card says each turn so it also changes when it's the start of your opponent's turn.

edit: Nat Pagle specifies 'at the start of your turn' for example.

 

[Karsticles]

The most fun/random deck in this game will be Shifter Zerus + ways to make copies like the new Rogue epic. Have 3-4 guys shifting around in your hand every turn.

Neat card, atleast.

Awful topdeck, though. Need to wait atleast an entire turn for it to be 'playable' and even then, you might feel inclined to play what he turns into instead of something that fits your curve better. Seems too clunky to me.

Better than any other 1-mana top deck because it doesn't have to stay the junky 1-mana card you drew.

 

[Fishlake]

So it transforms multiple times?

This will be interesting to see how it remembers what it was. Transform usually does not do that.

 

[Dahbomb]

Man crazy new mechanic. Haven't had a card in the game that keeps transforming (have had single hand transforms like the Monkey).

This seems like a control card to me. It can adapt to the situation sort of and gives you a potentially better option in a particular match up.

 

[Karsticles]

Man crazy new mechanic. Haven't had a card in the game that keeps transforming (have had single hand transforms like the Monkey).

This seems like a control card to me. It can adapt to the situation sort of and gives you a potentially better option in a particular match up.

Yeah, you just wait for him to morph into an Antonidas for your Control Priest deck, Cho'gall, Deathwing, etc.

 

[gutshot]

From Mike Donais on the Reddit thread:

It changes every turn until you play it. It has a special glow on it and a tooltip if you mouse over it to remind you that it is Shifter Zerus.

It changes at the start of your turn. You can only play it as Zerus the turn that you draw it. So if you draw it on turn 1 and your opponent has a 2/1 out, you can play it as a 1/1 to contest if you want to, or hang on to it for the right time.

 

[RecRoulette]

Man, changing on your opponents turn too would make this card potentially annoying as fuck. I just imagine it changing to great cards on their turn only to become garbage again when it's your turn.

Edit: Sounds like it's only on the start of your turn based on that note above

 

[LyleLanley]

So it's each turn. So it also changes on the opponent's turn?

That's what it sounds like.

 

[ZealousD]

Trying to think of why the cost/stats would matter if it changes while it's in your hand. Dark Peddler could discover it right? Is there more?

He could pop out of Paletress or Sneed's.

 

[FeD.nL]

From Mike Donais on the Reddit thread:

So what is it? Every turn? Or at the start of your turn?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I haven't heard that here - source?

People have been saying basically every card that has ever bothered them. They're not nerfing cards based on that criteria, so I am certain a lot of people are going to be disappointed.

 

[squidyj]

Shifter Zerus is great, but what kind of deck do you put him in?...


Makes sense.


Okay...

I wasn't trying to say that I have insider information just that I've looked at some of the expectations around the internet and they are straight up bonkers and not in line with the clues we've been seeing from the cards that have been revealed.