All of the cards on the list were problems but some might not have been in the top 12.Yeah, they nerfed cards that weren't a problem, and ignored cards that are universally known to be problems.
Looks like I can still make that Freeze Mage deck! :-D
I feel bad for the poster here that got a Golden Alex and was all excited for the dust.
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Well, it was fun watching you all guess while it lasted. : p
SO happy with the BGH nerf.
So Molten Giant gets a nerf but Sea Giant doesn't??!???!???!?
In line with blizzards hate of control/combo and love of zoo.
Still think Buzzard is the most nerfed card. Warsong, and now Blade Flurry, a close second though.
9 out 12 wasn't bad I guess...
Still man you gotta tell us what Blizzard was thinking with that Blade Flurry change.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Owl and Grove are and and Spellbreaker is too expensive to be as common as Owl ever was, the 5/9 isn't hindered by silence as much as it is by its mana cost.
Earth Shock is I think the only problematic silence left, which again, means aggro Shaman is gonna be a huge problem.
Karsticles
Member
If the Old Gods become a considerable portion of the meta as Blizzard wants, tell me BGH won't still be in a huge number of decks.
You think so? I think they completely lack a coherent design philosophy, and as such, these nerfs seem like misguided attempts at answers.
To me, the card was about what's worth playing. I'll give you an example: when I first played Zoolock, I got one Sea Giant. Sweet! I put him in the deck. Then, consistently, I would play him in a match, and my opponent would play BGH. I realized it was better not to include Sea Giant in my deck at all than to include him, because up to then no one used BGH against me. There were no viable targets.
Will the new BGH make me want to include a heavy minion or two in a zoo deck? I think I'll avoid it still, because an insta-kill counter is just too much.
Well, Hunter doesn't have any other answers.
I think all AoE should target only minions. Just be consistent with it.
Yeah, I'm okay with that one.
You're right.
As a 4 drop, 2/2 and 2 damage is pretty odd.
But how many decks will take a 1/1 with that purpose? That's a huge tempo loss for 2 face damage. I count on my Leper Gnomes trading with a lot of aggressive drops like Flame Imp.
Loss of tokens?
irfaanator
Banned
muster and implosion
Let's be real, the game will be over before turn 9.
Tirion is the only problem, they can still run it for that or tech hunters mark or something
That awkward moment when you realize that you would still play a 5 mana BGH...
In our current meta, I probably wouldn't play BGH just to have a chance at killing Dr Boom but in this Old Gods meta I can certainly see myself using one BGH especially in Reno decks. But that all depends on the decks and if it's Aggro Shaman and Freeze Mage meta then no point in using BGH.
In our current meta, I probably wouldn't play BGH just to have a chance at killing Dr Boom but in this Old Gods meta I can certainly see myself using one BGH especially in Reno decks. But that all depends on the decks and if it's Aggro Shaman and Freeze Mage meta then no point in using BGH.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Funny how they can increase the mana cost of a card by two and I'm still not sure if that's enough, says a lot about that pos card.
Yeah, Backspace rogue and when Realz was streaming it was kind of a thing, but quickly went away.
Pretty much. Throw in one Tier 1 Old Gods deck that we don't know about yet and that's your Standard meta.
Karsticles
Member
4/2 that kills a huge minion for 5 is STILL amazing. The card should cost 7 or
not exist at all, which is preferable.
But we're getting Against the Darkness and Wispers of the Old Gods. It might just combo at different mana points now instead of not being a combo. Plus, if Egg Druid becomes a thing with the new Force of Nature...
Why would the game be over before turn 9?
Right on. This is especially frustrating for me because I don't even care about the "OP" 7-attack cards. I just want to run Earth Elemental and Obsidian Destroyer in my decks because I think they're cool.
Hey, two decks I own, and two decks I want to create!
Implosion, Haunted Creeper and Muster are gone. That's three of the four most popular combo cards with Knife Juggler. Unleash is the only remaining card that does work with Juggler - and isn't some crap like Stand Against Darkness.
Classes that have solid removal and didnt stock up on all of them already will probably run their class removals instead, like Paladin and Rogue. Druid will probably still run it. Control Warrior might still run it.
poppedcollar69
Member
b-but i have 3 alexstrazas.... :'0
I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Blizzard nerfed most of the cards that players expected to be nerfed. Alex and Divine Favor aside, they addressed a lot of concerns, such as Charge and burst from hand. BGH and Juggler could have arguably been nerfed more, but these changes are all mostly good for the game.
I also think it's too early to grab pitchforks against Flurry. Rogue has gotten crap from the most recent expansions, and Blizzard seems to be blaming this card for that. Let's see what they get in this next expansion, because it's very easy with just a couple of cards for Flurry to become just as bad as FoN + SR.
People are looking at the Juggler change all wrong. The nerf is irrelevant in Wild where it will be used in combination with Muster and Implosion. But in standard, this change flat out murdered it as a viable 2 drop. Now it's a combo card for a later Turn.
Wasn't it always that? I always mulliganed it away and pretty much never dropped it on 2.
Juggler saw plenty of play in Classic and Naxx on Turn 2. It was in every zoo deck even without Implosion. Minibot really put the screws on it in GvG for Turn 2.
Whether or not decks still play it isn't the point. The point is that when they play it, they don't essentially render your last turn a pass. They have to play a bad five drop to answer your card. Which means they don't impact the board state as well. It's a marginally better assassinate. It still might be worth playing, but it isn't game winning.
Also, it's now terrible to play out as a tempo card. In match-ups like Control Priest, you could just play it with other things or on curve to give some power to your board and maybe make a trade. At 5 mana, it's terrible in any situation where the battlecry doesn't have a target.
The only exception to this is maybe where you coin minibot to protect it or secretkeeper into secret into coin juggler. In most other decks you're right though.
poppedcollar69
Member
brawl pack had a bgh XD
Just got one last week... Disappointed!
paperboywriter
Member
no ice block/ alex nerf. thank god freeze mage is ok. gonna get some hate here i think löl
paperboywriter
Member
he was right on juggler since forever. its way to much of an impact if it hits in the early game
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Reynad just masterfully described why it's a bad nerf on value town.
Karsticles
Member
I mean that Blizzard will say they want to kill OTK decks with no board presence one day, but then not only leave the only viable OTK deck alive in a nerf patch, but will also try to create a new OTK deck in the next expansion. It's just a sea of bullshit everywhere.
Yeah, but everyone but Blizzard knows that.
paperboywriter
Member
it has the same problem reynad is describing
I'm not sure what Reynad said (not watching), but I can't imagine it was any different than what was said here.
The problem with KJ is that it is cheap to put down and combo, and has an ongoing effect that makes it a priority to remove. Lowering the damage doesn't change a thing, so the card is essentially the same.
Just another example of Blizzard completely missing the point. I mean, it's a nerf, it's a worse card, but it doesn't matter.
The problem with KJ is that it is cheap to put down and combo, and has an ongoing effect that makes it a priority to remove. Lowering the damage doesn't change a thing, so the card is essentially the same.
Just another example of Blizzard completely missing the point. I mean, it's a nerf, it's a worse card, but it doesn't matter.
Flame juggler can be really stupid. If the opponent board state is a 2/1 and you respond with a 2/3 that kills it, that is massive.
His overarching argument is more about RNG in the early game being bad since it's much more swingy, which I don't really disagree with.
Knife Juggler is the anti christ. - Reynad 2016
flame juggler gets one juggle that's it, dit's a strong card specifically because of the juggle and how early it comes out but it's not a fucking 'problem'.
Karsticles
Member
Time to look up the deck recipe for Freeze Mage...I'm definitely spending that $50 on Classic packs now, haha.
Edit: Wow, I have everything but Archmage Antonidas, a second Ice Block, Bloodmage Thalnos (probably just replace him) and Alexstrasza. I had no idea I was so close to having the Freeze Mage deck completed...
Edit: Wow, I have everything but Archmage Antonidas, a second Ice Block, Bloodmage Thalnos (probably just replace him) and Alexstrasza. I had no idea I was so close to having the Freeze Mage deck completed...
I also think Flame Juggler + good proc is too good. Generally better than Knife Juggler when played on tempo.
He was describing how the rng at an early turn is more impact that it would be later on and how this card could mean the reason for winning or losing just from the beginning. He woul dhav ebeen fine if it were a 3/3/3 or a 2/1/3, but in reality all they had to do was switch from summoned to played. Noxious agreed
paperboywriter
Member
this