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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?

Tarazet

Member
Works for me, for the most part. Druid got stomped between Force, Ancient, Keeper and BGH, but it was deserved. Right now, it's a little like in WoW where Druid can do shit like pick herbs and hit quest objectives without shifting out of flight form, sprint for longer than any other class, get obscene CC and still top the meters in DPS. Not really fair they have all these advantages and no real downside.

Ancient is still playable only because there is no more Healbot. Force + Roar is going to be lol whatever, I'll just use Consecration and send you on your way. Keeper is unplayable. BGH is now just a situational version of Stormpike Commando.
 

gutshot

Member
Would you play Force of Nature in egg/token druid deck?

It might not be too bad. Soul of the forest is a card. the card is a LOT better than S.A.D. paladin is getting for same mana and druid has some ways to benefit from it token. Savage Roar is left unchecked and it's an absurd card, I end games moe often with roar alone already in combo druid. I like how this is the only nerf that involved mana decrease, the card could be pretty ok just very differently than before.

I thought for sure that Savage Roar was going to get nerfed. I'm sort of glad it didn't because token/egg druid is one of my favorite archetypes to play.

That being said, I don't think Force of Nature will see play in these types of decks. It is super susceptible to a LOT of board clears (Holy Nova, Excavated Evil, Hellfire, Shadow Word: Horror, Consecration, Blizzard, Demonwrath). Also consider that Silver Hand Knight offers the same stats for mana cost and is never played. Yeah, it doesn't scale as well with Savage Roar, but still.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
So... Aggro Shaman runs: Haunted Creeper (Out of Standard), Lepper Gnome (Nerfed) and Knife Juggler (Nerfed)

And it still sounds like a friggin' powerful deck.

Knife Juggler's nerf, lmao.
Im hella mad.. but i gotta admit that Blizzard took its time to test the change so maybe it legits affect the game. Dunno really.
 
Looking at the nerfs from an Arena perspective:

Ironbeak Owl: Nerfing its mana cost does more damage than nerfing its stats would've (since it usually died easily anyway), but it'll still get drafted over trash and when desperate for any kind of removal. Combined with the KOTG nerf, should mean Silence is noticeably rarer in Arena.
Big Game Hunter: Doesn't affect Arena much since it's an Epic and nobody played around it anyway. At 5 mana it's only useful in top deck wars or when it gets to kill something so it will be significantly less valued.
Knife Juggler: Huge nerf, since at 2/2 it straight loses to any 2/3 or 3/3. Only really want it to combo with Unleash or Muster now, so it won't be seen much. Less chance of curving out properly as a result.
Leper Gnome: Was never good but is now worthless outside super aggro drafts.
Arcane Golem: Much worse. Before it provided reach or removal, but now it's just an overstated 3-drop with a crippling drawback. Consider that Dancing Swords is considered a poor 3-drop, and it's drawback is delayed via deathrattle. Probably undraftable. Rares get worse.
Molten Giant: Undraftable, I think, but as an Epic it changes little anyway. How often can you actually limbo to below 10HP without dying in Arena? Mage and Rogue, with their strong reach, are way too popular to get away with that often.

Hunter's Mark: Still good.
Blade Flurry: Probably the most important of the nerfs from an Arena perspective. Rogue loses its best board clear and a big source of reach. Well, okay, at 4 mana it's still good for clearing the board, but you definitely need to draft good weapons/spells to make it work, where as right now there's always the fall back option of just using the Dagger for an Arcane Explosion. Significantly hit to Rogue's ability to swing the board and come back.

Keeper of the Grove: Huge nerf. Silence is rarely super valuable in Arena - you normally pick the damage. You better do something good with the 2 damage because 4 mana for a 2/2 is awful. Still versatile so I expect it to see play, but should drop a lot in value now that it can't dominate almost all 2 and 3 drops and regularly go 2 for 1.
Ancient of Lore: Being an Epic it doesn't matter much. Still a strong card to draft, but less of a catch, and less of a topdeck king. I'd rather have AoW every time.
Force of Nature: Epic, as above. No longer acts as reach or removal, but still draftable. Three 2/2s on turn 5 is awkward though: your opponent is likely to be able to trade favourably if they have a board. Will only be great with synergistic cards like Stormwind Champion, Power of the Wild or Cult Master.

Master of Disguise: Changes little. Still an average 4-drop with an occasionally useful battlecry.

Overall, Rogue and Druid get hit. Curving out gets less common with Knife Juggler's demise, which favours classes with good 2 drops. Cards like Arcane Golem and Ironbeak Owl are stronger in aggro drafts (typically Rogue and Hunter). More good news for Mage.
 
So... Aggro Shaman runs: Haunted Creeper (Out of Standard), Lepper Gnome (Nerfed) and Knife Juggler (Nerfed)

And it still sounds like a friggin' powerful deck.


Im hella mad.. but i gotta admit that Blizzard took its time to test the change so maybe it legits affect the game. Dunno really.

ppl have been swapping juggler for zapomatic since you don't play many minions in aggro shaman. Plus if juggler stays up a turn, then zapomatic will as well

is there any reason outside of the beast tag to play iron beak owl compared to spellbreaker?
 

Sifl

Member
Don't worry guys, I'm sure Rogue's will be getting a aoe removal card that's better then spend 6 mana deal deal 1 damage to all enemy minions in the expansion.
Kappa
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Wow I've never built a rogue deck ever, but that blade flurry nerf looks ridiculous. They turned it into something worse than a warlock class card.

Molten giant shouldabeen nerfed to 23.
 
So Molten Giant gets a nerf but Sea Giant doesn't??!???!???!?
50KS8.png
 

gutshot

Member
ppl have been swapping juggler for zapomatic since you don't play many minions in aggro shaman. Plus if juggler stays up a turn, then zapomatic will as well

is there any reason outside of the beast tag to play iron beak owl compared to spellbreaker?

If all you are after is the Silence effect, Owl is still cheaper and thus better. Weak body means very little to aggro decks just looking to get through big taunts like Sunwalker and AoW.
 

squidyj

Member
Except that card is even weaker then kezan mystic is. I doubt it'll be ran.

it's a card that's never going to pull their ice barrier instead of their ice block.
We're also losing healbots, and scientists so it's going to be harder for freeze mages to stay 2 turns away from lethal and they're going to need to actually draw their secrets instead of having a card that can pull them from the deck. I honestly think smart players are going to be able to put enough pressure on freeze mage in standard that the mage won't ever have a turn to play alex or go on the offensive without relying on secrets to save them. If freeze mage gets too big you can bet you'll see this card come in to farm the free wins.
 
This is my first time having cards that will be getting nerfed, so I'm wondering what my best course of action is.

Do I keep them, or dust them and hope to get them later / craft them for the potentially lower dust cost?

Will they change dust cost after the nerf, or is it just a way to get more dust from cards you potentially didn't craft and got in other ways?
 

ViviOggi

Member
This is my first time having cards that will be getting nerfed, so I'm wondering what my best course of action is.

Do I keep them, or dust them and hope to get them later / craft them for the potentially lower dust cost?

Will they change dust cost after the nerf, or is it just a way to get more dust from cards you potentially didn't craft and got in other ways?

Nerfed cards give full dust value for a week after the patch. You immediately dust every single copy and recraft cards as needed.
 

Permanently A

Junior Member
This is my first time having cards that will be getting nerfed, so I'm wondering what my best course of action is.

Do I keep them, or dust them and hope to get them later / craft them for the potentially lower dust cost?

Will they change dust cost after the nerf, or is it just a way to get more dust from cards you potentially didn't craft and got in other ways?

The correct course of action is to immediately dust all changed cards, assuming they will get full dust refund like previously. Let me break it down:

You have an Ancient of Lore. Disenchanting before update gives you 100 dust.

After the update, assuming they give the refund, Disenchanting now gives the same dust for crafting. So instead of 100 dust, you get 400 dust.

You immediately dust every single changed card so you get full dust value, and then you wait for the meta to change. Once the meta is changed, you can decide if you want to recraft or not. So if Lore is still played, you can recraft them and you didn't lose or gain anything, but if they aren't played, then you just scored free dust.
 

Peléo

Member
what are ppls opinions on the best LoE class cards?

thats my last set of cards i can unlock before Old Gods

They are overall really good. Many people have already highlighted some of the best ones, but I would like to emphasise the legendaries: Brann Bronzebeard, Reno Jackson, Elise Starseeker and Sir Finley Mrgglton are all solid cards which work in different archetypes. Discover is also one of the most interesting mechanics of the game and playing with it is incredibly fun.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
This is my first time having cards that will be getting nerfed, so I'm wondering what my best course of action is.

Do I keep them, or dust them and hope to get them later / craft them for the potentially lower dust cost?

Will they change dust cost after the nerf, or is it just a way to get more dust from cards you potentially didn't craft and got in other ways?
It depends, if youre a Rogue player: Dust Blade Furry and ask your mom for a hug.
If you're a Freeze Mage or Aggro Shaman player: Just chill.
 
These nerfs are largely terrible. I am incredibly amused at how Blizzard continues to be at this.

"We don't want every deck including Owl for cheap silence". The solution is to apparently make it cost 1 more, lol.

BGH costs 2 more - whoopdie do.

Hunter's Mark is out of nowhere.

Blade Fury not hitting face is GREAT, but this should happen with EVERY AoE spell, especially Consecrate.

100% dusting both of my Arcane Golems. Terrible card now.

Master of Disguise is what we all expected.

Molten Giant is a little more than what I expected, but we'll see how it pans out. Mountain Giant will be more important than ever for Handlock.

Ancient of Lore is fair.

Keeper of the Grove I expected to get 2/3; 2/2 seems a bit much.

Force of Nature is great for Egg Druid now...except Egg Druid is dying unless Nerubian Egg gets a replacement (I hope).

Leper Gnome change...we'll see.

Knife Juggler change is hilarious. This changes absolutely nothing.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Owl costing one more is a big deal. That might be enough to take it out of aggro lists and if they plan to keep it then that significantly lowers their power level.
 

Dahbomb

Member
What else is a Hunter going to run to get past Tirion or that new 5/9 legendary?
Hunter will still run the Owl due to beast synergy.

Other classes will run Spellbreaker, one mana for way better stats. Aggro Shaman does not care, they have Earthshock. Rogue has sap, Paladin still has Keeper.

Lmao @ the 5/9 Legendary. That card sucks and is not relevant.

Someone over on Reddit pointed out that 0 cost HM would allow CThun --> easy removal of 1/2big baddies + tons of face damage.
A Hunter running a Cthun deck....
 
Someone over on Reddit pointed out that 0 cost HM would allow CThun + easy removal of 1/2big baddies + tons of face damage.
I can see that. On the other hand, if you could play through the disadvantage of not playing Hunter's Mark all the way to turn 10 as a Hunter, I think you might just deserve that.

Hunter will still run the Owl due to beast synergy.

Other classes will run Spellbreaker, one mana for way better stats. Aggro Shaman does not care, they have Earthshock. Rogue has sap, Paladin still has Keeper.

Lmao @ the 5/9 Legendary. That card sucks and is not relevant.
I'm just throwing examples of big stuff out there.

Zoolock will still run Owl. Basically, that's the same situation we are in now, isn't it?
 
Some of the changes make sense in the context of the history of the game. If you were there, you probably understand/agree with them I think - at least most of them. Even hunter's mark.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Some of the changes make sense in the context of the history of the game. If you were there, you probably understand/agree with them I think - at least most of them. Even hunter's mark.
I understand most of them yet keeping with their design philosophies they messed up not nerfing Alex, Rockbiter/Doomhammer and Divine Favor. They also hella over nerfed Blade Flurry, that's easily a Warsong tier nerf that gets the community whipped into a frenzy.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
BGH costs 2 more - whoopdie do.

That's a bug fucking deal. That would bury most other cards into the ground. Some classes will probably forgo the card entirely now, because it became basically unplayable for tempo.
 

Sheroking

Member
These nerfs are largely terrible. I am incredibly amused at how Blizzard continues to be at this.

Nah, a couple missteps aside, they did a pretty reasonable job IMO.

BGH costs 2 more - whoopdie do.

Nobody hates that card more than I do and I think that was more than appropriate. Instead of being a decent three drop that allowed you to play a bunch of other crap, it's a bad 5 drop that limits what you can play with it.

It's no longer going to be a consistent, game losing tempo swing.

Hunter's Mark is out of nowhere.

Not really. 0 mana spells shouldn't be the answer to giant taunts. This was on the lower end of the spectrum of what people wanted, but nobody should be surprised.

Blade Fury not hitting face is GREAT, but this should happen with EVERY AoE spell, especially Consecrate.

EDIT: Wow, they changed that too. What an abysmal nerf.

Master of Disguise is what we all expected.

Well, it's the worst card getting changed but we knew that it's ability had the potential to break the game if a card was introduced with the right ability.

Molten Giant is a little more than what I expected, but we'll see how it pans out. Mountain Giant will be more important than ever for Handlock.

It's exactly what I expected. Molten Giant being ~5 mana at 10 health instead of 0 is important. If they're playing a giant for free, they should be in danger of getting burned down with spells. No more Molten-Molten-Sunfury bullshit.

Ancient of Lore is fair.

It's fair now.

"Draw 2 cards" is costed, on average, at 3 mana. In terms of how it was costed for it's stats, it was essentially a 4 mana 5-5 AND it had the malleability of being a heal instead of card draw.

Keeper of the Grove I expected to get 2/3; 2/2 seems a bit much.

Nah, it has no business crushing early game on top of silence or doing 2 damage. Now it loses to 2 drops.

Force of Nature is great for Egg Druid now...except Egg Druid is dying unless Nerubian Egg gets a replacement (I hope).

I hope not.

Leper Gnome change...we'll see.

This was actually more harsh than I expected, but I'm happy about that. A 1 drop that trades with half the two drops and clocks in 4-6 face damage is pretty gross. Now it's mostly about the deathrattle.

Knife Juggler change is hilarious. This changes absolutely nothing.

Agreed. Three drops crush it now, but that's not too meaningful.

It is kind of being passively nerfed with the loss of a lot token cards.
 
I understand most of them yet keeping with their design philosophies they messed up not nerfing Alex, Rockbiter/Doomhammer and Divine Favor. They also hella over nerfed Blade Flurry, that's easily a Warsong tier nerf that gets the community whipped into a frenzy.
Yeah, they nerfed cards that weren't a problem, and ignored cards that are universally known to be problems.

Looks like I can still make that Freeze Mage deck! :-D

I feel bad for the poster here that got a Golden Alex and was all excited for the dust. :(
 
I'm dusting everything that gets nerfed unless I'm currently using it. Worst case scenario is that you'll have to craft it again for the same amount you dusted it for.

I had two Gadgetzan Auctioneers when they got nerfed and decided to hold on to them, only to get two more shortly after the window where you got full dust. Never again.
 
I understand most of them yet keeping with their design philosophies they messed up not nerfing Alex, Rockbiter/Doomhammer and Divine Favor. They also hella over nerfed Blade Flurry, that's easily a Warsong tier nerf that gets the community whipped into a frenzy.

Yeah, I agree blade flurry nerf is quite over done. I mean, it's probably not as bad as the warsong nerf. It's a bit more playable than warsong commander.

While oil is gone, I think that card is appropriately costed and we could see weapon buffs on that power curve in the future. Which could make BF a problem. So I get the nerf. Just too much. If it was 2 mana and didn't hit face, I think that'd be fine.
 

Hycran

Banned
Hunter will still run the Owl due to beast synergy.

Other classes will run Spellbreaker, one mana for way better stats. Aggro Shaman does not care, they have Earthshock. Rogue has sap, Paladin still has Keeper.

Lmao @ the 5/9 Legendary. That card sucks and is not relevant.


A Hunter running a Cthun deck....

The real problem isn't that the 5/9 legendary is inherently horrible (although it is bad for a number of reasons), but that with a slower meta means the return of the black knight. There is literally no juicier target than the slitherer. I can only imagine some priest or druid running deathlords having Soggoth sucked out from their deck only to get insta black knighted. FeelsBadMan
 
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