He's obviously a better player than me, but his suggestion there doesn't change his gripe with the card which is that you get either a great trade on a 2/1 or just go to face. Why isn't Elven Archer played more if that 1dmg is so valuable early game?
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
He's obviously a better player than me, but his suggestion there doesn't change his gripe with the card which is that you get either a great trade on a 2/1 or just go to face. Why isn't Elven Archer played more if that 1dmg is so valuable early game?
Karsticles
Member
To be fair, Elven Archer is a fantastic Arena card.
paperboywriter
Member
because elven archer doesnt trade into 2 or 3 drops
A 2/2 gets uber punished by a ton of 2 drops if the text doesn't trigger. This thing is dead on curve, period. We know this from Pint-sized summoner. A 2 mana 2/2 that does not have a guaranteed upside cannot be played.
The minion body being so good for the mana cost is why. 2/3 for 2 is expected, and a ping that kills a minion is huge(but it's 'random' which is why the body is strong). It contests the board just by existing but can have effects beyond that which snowball the game further.
Also see Keeper(even pre nerf) or even Stormpike Commando. Stormpike is a targeted 2 damage and a 4/2 for 5, immediate targetable effects have a hefty cost. This is also why class cards like Fire Ele are so good.
I do think making juggler a 2/2 has more of an impact than it seems, though.
well to be fair he wouldn't be happy with a 2/1/3, but that that would have been better than the nerf it got, which was his point
But now with only 2 attack, KJ won't be nearly as effective to trade up early game.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
If the trade potential is so important then what's wrong with lowering its attack as a nerf?
Personally I think the nerf is fine. It's not pounded into the soil but it's definitely weaker, especially in Standard.
It's actually guaranteed that you will get one legendary per every 40 packs. So your RNG is literally the pits.
paperboywriter
Member
sure, but also depending on if two drops are usually 2/3 or 3/2 in the new meta
Yeah for sure. I'm not saying 3/2 KJ shouldn't be nerfed, just that a 2/2 with an inconsistent result is a good balance I think.
Full crafting value
oh shit
partyphone
Banned
I love playing freeze but Alex isn't even remotely the problem. it's a combination of ice block and how easy it is to draw cards in hearthstone. I really don't get all confusion on here over Alex.
I have two extra mountain giants, 1 extra master of disguise, 6 extra knife jugglers (2 of which are golden), 2 extra Leper Gnomes (1 of which is golden) and an extra blade flurry. I'm going to be rolling in dust! Very happy I stopped disenchanting cards quite a while ago. Currently when I push the button it would have been 7k dust. With these nerfs, it's going to be a lot more. 
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I sorta agree with you. I think without alex they are reliant on more card draw and more burn spells. Right now they have that LOE card that adds a fireball level burn to your deck, so alex is less necessary. But in the future alex might be more necessary, or antonidas. And that is where nerfing alex makes a lot of sense.
Right now you need neither antonidas or alex, which is a problem... for now. So nerfing ice block seems like the best course.
Maybe they've yet to reveal what cards are gonna be added to counter freeze mage though.
Pint-sized Summoner
Cutpurse
Micromachine
Scavening Hyena
Argent Protector
Defias Ringleader
Dire Wolf Alpha
Frostwolf Grunt
Crazed Alchemist
Kobold Geomancer
Playing a naked 2 mana 2/2 on Turn 2 without getting some additional benefit from a Deathrattle or Battlecry is garbage. Knife Juggler is dead on Turn 2, period. End of story.
Cutpurse
Micromachine
Scavening Hyena
Argent Protector
Defias Ringleader
Dire Wolf Alpha
Frostwolf Grunt
Crazed Alchemist
Kobold Geomancer
Playing a naked 2 mana 2/2 on Turn 2 without getting some additional benefit from a Deathrattle or Battlecry is garbage. Knife Juggler is dead on Turn 2, period. End of story.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
You have a proposed nerf for Ice Block or "how easy it is to draw cards"? It's way easier to nerf Alex than those two.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Nerf blade flurry when no one plays rogue to begin with (I think I've played against one in the last 60 games of ranked)
Yet leave all of control warriors bs untouched. :/
Yet leave all of control warriors bs untouched. :/
BananasWithGuns
Member
What nerfs do you think control Warrior needs?
Karsticles
Member
Rogue has too many good cards right now.
As a result, we need to nerf some of those good cards.
That way, we can give Rogues better cards.
So Rogue can be better.
/Blizzard Logic
poppedcollar69
Member
They should have changed arcane golem to 3/4/2 charge, battlecry: give your opponent 10 mana crystals
Dr.Horrible
Member
I would assume the ability to amass stupid amounts of armor.
I'm not saying it needs it, but I'd guess that's what they are getting at.
Deaths bite, sludge, and deathlord leaving might be enough. No minibot to counter their war axe is iffy.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Reynad talking about how Blizzard never changing cards more than once made me depressed, if KJ stays dominating then we have to just deal with it. Because Blizzard just refuses to change huge problem cards when it's needed.
partyphone
Banned
well nerfing card draw means mill decks will never work. also not drawing cards has become an important part of the control vs control meta while being able to draw gives you flexibility against midrange and aggro.
the easiest way to nerf freeze is to nerf ice block. the best way to nerf freeze is to print new cards that let you deal with it better.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
They may have a different attitude going forward. We'll just have to wait and see if they have nerfs planned for next year.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Yeah but how would you nerf Ice Block?
IMO shield slam should then deplete the shield that is used. so 10 shield becomes 2 shield after using SS on say Rags
Master of Disguise is a design limitation on powerful persistent effects on neutral minions.
Xamtheking
Member
it was so underutilized blizzard forgot it was a class card
Make it a legendary. Done. No arena is harmed, the card still works as intended.
The issue with the card is you can't change the text without "LOL SOUL OF THE CARD" issues or making it awful. Letting Freeze mage stall for 2 consecutive turns while they burn you down with spells has been the real issue. However with Mad Scientist rotating out of standard, they won't be able to Alexstraza and get an ice block up unless they have preloaded Thaurissan ticks. So in a way the removal of mad scientist has hurt the class more than any nerf. Mage secrets are the most expensive and therefore need the best return to be worthwhile. I am still skeptical though. The deck seems completely viable still.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
I once got 3 legendaries within 17 packs, and it skewed my viewpoint greatly at the time. then again, I think the likeliehood of getting legendaries in GVG seems pretty high.
speaking of GVG, I think I will buy one last pack to have before it finally goes away. Just to keep
TheSadRanger
Banned
Nothing major, and I know they lose Death's Bite and shield maiden.
I would prefer a minor nerf to shield slam (raise from 1 mana to 2) and raise shield blocks cost from 3 mana to 4.
I don't have a problem with control warrior's spells themselves, it's just the fact that they're super cheap and combo together effectively. Many of their spells are multi utility providing direct damage, healing (which also leads to more damage) and card draw.
Also raise Brawl's cost from 5 mana to 7.
I guess control warrior killed your dog.
Dr.Horrible
Member
I was actually thinking this the other day. I kind of like the idea.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Spend 8 health to remove an 8 health minion? Seems bad. Very bad.
WesternHeretic
Member
Haven't really paid attention to the meta in the last 2-3 months. Just been Zzzzz my way to to 5 with Secret Pally and Combo Druid. Damn now I don't know what to do!!! What's the next easy mode deck to play so I don't have to learn anything new?
Both of those would still do it
Zoo or SMOrc Shaman most likely