Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think you run 2 in midrange. Probably even 1 in more aggressive decks.
Perhaps even ET to spring it on turn 7.
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
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I think you run 2 in midrange. Probably even 1 in more aggressive decks.
Perhaps even ET to spring it on turn 7.
RecRoulette
Member
Was messing around with android emulators to play PvZ heroes, and I remembered the Galaxy promotion. Got my three easy packs and a cardback to boot.
toddhunter
Member
Yeah who has actually been saying the Shaman weapon is bad? You would run one for sure in a midrange deck. Even if it gets harrisoned, you get an even trade after.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Have there been any top/pro players saying it's good? I don't think it's a terrible card, but it competes against doomhammer.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I'm inexperienced but I feel like a lot of players have been way too harsh on the cards, like they enjoy calling cards shit and only seeing the perspective of "yeah but what if I have 5 health, no board, my opponent has a full board, Flamestrike, 3 BGHs and full health?".
Or maybe I'm just too optimistic.
Or maybe I'm just too optimistic.
The new shaman weapon is "trash" becAuse everyone will run aggro shaman with one of the evolution cards and dominate the ladder
I have a great idea for a card in the next adventure. A New Paladin Secret, Salvation of the Light Lord.
When your hero takes Fatal Damage, replace your hero with Ragnaros, Light Lord.
Ragnaros, Light Lord (Hero). 8 HP. Hero Power, "LIVE, INSECT!" - Revive a friendly minion that died this game. Set its HP to 8.
When your hero takes Fatal Damage, replace your hero with Ragnaros, Light Lord.
Ragnaros, Light Lord (Hero). 8 HP. Hero Power, "LIVE, INSECT!" - Revive a friendly minion that died this game. Set its HP to 8.
Firebat and Thijs have both said it's kind of bad. The common theme for why some of the pros don't like it is that it deals 4 damage and not 5. They don't think there will be too many minions being dropped around that turn with that amount of health.
I don't think that tells the whole, story, though. For one, Azure Drake is a pretty common 5 drop, and might even become more common going forward. It's also not necessarily important for the hammer to deal with the minions cleanly. Cheaper minions will also start coming into play again around this time and you can also pair the weapon with other minions to kill the stuff you need to. It's not like Paladin swings in once with Truesilver Champion and then shrugs its shoulders and never swings the weapon again.
Amaz called it an 8/10 and he uses 5/10 as the average.
this is the set review by amnesiac (winter champ), crane333 (big warrior, top ladder player), laughinghs (single digit rank freeze mage player, he just plays freeze mage) and justsaiyan of tempostorm.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...u1GLXT2X4foael4/edit?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1
almost everything is poor to ok.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...u1GLXT2X4foael4/edit?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1
almost everything is poor to ok.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think drake is rare outside of rogue.
I think 8/10 is way too high. He only gave call of the wild 7/10. I can see a valid argument for control shaman, but I am going to guess the new meta has 5 health being more prominent than previous metas. It does work well with fire elemental though.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Druid plays a ton of Drake, so does tempo Mage.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yeah, I guess mage. Druid does occasionally, I wouldn't say a ton, but going forward will probably see play over AOL. But druid also plays druid of the claw, and mage is a risky proposition due to frostbolts or water elemental (likely to replace shredder in decks that haven't already made the move).
toddhunter
Member
Well I guess that may be true.
The crucial part of the weapon is that the elemental is a 3 drop. This works amazingly well with master of evolution and evolve.
Turn 5 weapon and attack.
Turn 6 attack + master of evolution on it + a couple of extra mana to do stuff.
I was looking back at old Freeze Mage lists from pre-Naxx and they all ran 2 Azure Drakes, I'm thinking Standard Freeze Mage might run 1 Azure Drake.
I almost want to completely disregard the entire thing, off the premises that Obsidian Destroyer is in the examples of Unplayable.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I felt journey below could be okay in a minion based auctioneer deck. It's flexible and can enable combos, but they have it listed as poor. Compared to that 1/2 priest card discover a deathrattle minion, I don't think it's bad. The priest card might be slightly better but the rogue one lends some unique strength as the form of combo enabler and cycle off auctioneer and a 1/1 from violet teacher.
I don't remember that being the case. But it makes some sense I suppose. I don't see why they would go back to that either.
I'm more along the opinion of that list miladesn linked to. Maybe better than unplayable. Perhaps just poor or okay in that rating.
I don't remember that being the case. But it makes some sense I suppose. I don't see why they would go back to that either.
I'm more along the opinion of that list miladesn linked to. Maybe better than unplayable. Perhaps just poor or okay in that rating.
I feel they underrate Infested Wolf, Selfless Hero, Hammer of Twilight (unplayable, lol), Twilight Summoner, and Nerubian Prophet here. I could probably mention others that they underrate by a little but these were the standouts to me. Otherwise a pretty solid ranking. The listing looks more pessimistic than it really is because by "unplayable" they mean "constructed unplayable" which incorporates a lot of fair cards.
Considering that their definition of "good" is an over powered card like Juggler (which had to be nerfed) tells me that their bar for grading cards is far too high.
Obsidian Destroyer was unplayable while Dr. Boom existed. But I don't agree with their assessment of Shatter, which I see as allowing you to leave out Flamestrike, since there is usually going to be one target you really want gone but don't want to devote burn to.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Agreed, that just sounds insane to me that anyone would look at that card and call it unplayable for reasons other than it just being worse than Boom, the card itself is great.
Yeah this is kinda what I meant, seems like they're looking for GvG tier cards even though GvG isn't in anymore, so why expect GvG power levels?
At least they agree with me that the Shaman 7/7 is absurdly broken.
I think the new weapon is better for clearing midrange minions than Doomhammer. Having to attack twice into minions with more than two health is a serious downside when you want to maintain board control. Obviously the new Shaman weapon won't reach the full potential of a Doomhammer but it's a useful standalone card with a solid deathrattle when you don't want to run Rockbiter and aim for massive damage. I wouldn't be surprised to see it played over Doomhammer in Midrange decks.
Karsticles
Member
Hey, something we agree on.
I was playing a Renolock with Patron Warrior, and I had a board of:
Kel'Thuzad
Unstable Ghoul
Grim Patron
Grim Patron
Grim Patron
Plus a Death's Bite in my hand.
He's down to 11 life, so I think "Even if he drops Reno, I don't really care". I also had Ysera in my hand, so I knew I could out-value him (I know, my Grim Patron deck is really weird, but I went 6-3 with it today at rank 5!).
He drops Sylvannas, Shadowflame's the board, and steals Kel'Thuzad, who resurrects Sylvannas.
Spams "Thank you" and "That was a mistake" for a good 30 seconds before finishing his turn.
So I drop Grommash, hit face with the Death's Bite, the whirlwind enrages Grom, and end him. I made sure to give a "Well played" as his portrait exploded.
Trigger_happy
Member
What's so good about Obsidian destroyer? War golem with 1/1 taunt that is weak to hard removal, even in arena it's manageable.
irfaanator
Banned
yea for real, majority of the cards in their definition are unplayable which doesnt make sense.
So, is there no zombie chow replacement?
ohhhh yesss.. mmmmm. it's the best.
thank you well played i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry.
BOOM.
a single well played to send em on their way.
game really needs a *drops mic* emote.
Hey, something we agree on.
I was playing a Renolock with Patron Warrior, and I had a board of:
Kel'Thuzad
Unstable Ghoul
Grim Patron
Grim Patron
Grim Patron
Plus a Death's Bite in my hand.
He's down to 11 life, so I think "Even if he drops Reno, I don't really care". I also had Ysera in my hand, so I knew I could out-value him (I know, my Grim Patron deck is really weird, but I went 6-3 with it today at rank 5!).
He drops Sylvannas, Shadowflame's the board, and steals Kel'Thuzad, who resurrects Sylvannas.
Spams "Thank you" and "That was a mistake" for a good 30 seconds before finishing his turn.
So I drop Grommash, hit face with the Death's Bite, the whirlwind enrages Grom, and end him. I made sure to give a "Well played" as his portrait exploded.
ohhhh yesss.. mmmmm. it's the best.
thank you well played i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry.
BOOM.
a single well played to send em on their way.
game really needs a *drops mic* emote.
irfaanator
Banned
nothing as good, but most classes have at least 1 reasonable 1 mana minion.
Trigger_happy
Member
Seems that there is no good neutral anti-aggro tools that can replace chow, deathlord, belcher and healbot in this expansion.
We have Gadgetan Auctioneer as a Chow replacement, that new taunt that upgrades with minions on the board and Cult Apothecary as a Healbot replacement.
Sort of.
Wait, wait, wait.
I just dusted Majordomo. You can do that already?
Yeah, thanks for this.
Used Nox to get the four free packs and I opened Leeroy+300 dust essentially.
I just dusted Majordomo. You can do that already?
Yeah, thanks for this.
Used Nox to get the four free packs and I opened Leeroy+300 dust essentially.
So as I mentioned earlier I was looking at old Freeze Mage lists to see how a new Standard Freeze Mage deck would shape out and this one seems to be the old "standard" that I remember
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/otters-season-2-freeze-mage/
The obvious biggest differences between current decks and that one are the Mirror Images and Azure Drakes. You definitely replace one of them with Emperor but after that the rest of the changes are pretty fluid depending on meta. Potential additions for Freeze Mage with the WotG cards are:
1. Cabalists Tome for a Control meta, Tome allows you to try getting answers for difficult minions like Ragnaros by maybe pulling out a Polymorph which you would not want to normally run in your deck. It also may allow you to get more damage than the total amount of damage spells in your deck against decks that have a lot of healing.
2. Cult Apothecary for a Token Zoo meta. Freeze Mage is likely the only deck that can effectively use this card since you want to be able to combine it with Freeze Nova in order to stall a turn AND gain enough health to survive an extra one on top of that.
3. Shatter as a tech card against Ragnaros or even Ragnaros Lightlord. If cards like these are played heavily which are huge problems for Freeze Mage then Shatter is a good answer for it.
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/otters-season-2-freeze-mage/
The obvious biggest differences between current decks and that one are the Mirror Images and Azure Drakes. You definitely replace one of them with Emperor but after that the rest of the changes are pretty fluid depending on meta. Potential additions for Freeze Mage with the WotG cards are:
1. Cabalists Tome for a Control meta, Tome allows you to try getting answers for difficult minions like Ragnaros by maybe pulling out a Polymorph which you would not want to normally run in your deck. It also may allow you to get more damage than the total amount of damage spells in your deck against decks that have a lot of healing.
2. Cult Apothecary for a Token Zoo meta. Freeze Mage is likely the only deck that can effectively use this card since you want to be able to combine it with Freeze Nova in order to stall a turn AND gain enough health to survive an extra one on top of that.
3. Shatter as a tech card against Ragnaros or even Ragnaros Lightlord. If cards like these are played heavily which are huge problems for Freeze Mage then Shatter is a good answer for it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
They are losing one 2 of that are easily replaced by cycle cards. Replace mad scientist with loot hoarders. Not the same power level but works towards the same goal. I could see the list making a couple other changes depending on the meta, but nothing we haven't seen before. Antonidas, for example. And I think that 2 spell damage minion for 4 mana could be quite absurd. 4 mana card produces 6 damage off 3 spells. So it's basically another fireball if they need it, which they probably don't but it's possible with the density of cheap burn spells they have.
You mean jouster right? not auctioneer
Was watching the card review tonight, and glad more people are finally agreeing the priest legendary is garbage tier.
Speaking of dusting, if you have golden or extra doomhammer and Alex. I wouldn't dust them just yet.
I think there will be another round of nerfs this year before Blizzcon, If they feel the meta isn't what they want and that's probably what's going to happen. Last year warsong commander got hit and the year before Leeroy and Buzzard. There is enough history. Blizzcon season is nerf season.
I think there will be another round of nerfs this year before Blizzcon, If they feel the meta isn't what they want and that's probably what's going to happen. Last year warsong commander got hit and the year before Leeroy and Buzzard. There is enough history. Blizzcon season is nerf season.
tons of great WOG arena vids from adwcta going up,lots more to come
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ddxr3SCyg&list=PLmBNQlZMGQ3X7GIpxBL8YPzbjIW-Fexig
better than ever this set with the new editing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ddxr3SCyg&list=PLmBNQlZMGQ3X7GIpxBL8YPzbjIW-Fexig
better than ever this set with the new editing
I HIGHLY doubt Evolved Kobold will be run in any (good) Freeze Mage lists, it's just too expensive compared to Bloodmage Thalnos. Thalnos isn't only used for the extra burn damage, it's played over Kobold Geomancer because it's also a cycle card. 4 mana Evolved Kobold means you can't play it together with Flamestrike, and you can only play it with Blizzard on 10 mana. But really the biggest reason why it won't be played is that it doesn't draw a card. I didn't notice that the list was missing Antonidas, yeah Antonidas is definitely a must have in a Freeze Mage list so that's pretty weird. I'll need to check other lists but it's possible Antonidas wasn't run because it doesn't often get value without an Emperor tick.
Okay, so if you guys have been missing the streams that Dahbomb and I have been doing, the archives are going onto YouTube.
Nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO9gk2b6TiM
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDEyribm5zo
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNjBqVbBLPU
And as a reminder, I am still taking submissions for your thoughts on the most overrated and underrated cards of the set You can see the rules HERE. Just send me a PM. Come on! We can't do it if you guys don't send them in, and I know you guys wanna put your fellow GAF members on blast!
Nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO9gk2b6TiM
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDEyribm5zo
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNjBqVbBLPU
And as a reminder, I am still taking submissions for your thoughts on the most overrated and underrated cards of the set You can see the rules HERE. Just send me a PM. Come on! We can't do it if you guys don't send them in, and I know you guys wanna put your fellow GAF members on blast!
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The reason freeze mage doesn't run antonidas is because they have forgotten torch to draw into additional fireballs already. It's easier to activate than antonidas too. It does thicken their deck, but with cards they want to draw, and does help slow down early aggression as the front half of the spell will remove a minion.
I agree about thalnos and everything, but I could see 2 spellpower in 1 card being a solid tool in a burn based deck like freeze mage.
You know, the new Kobold might have been a card that was enabling some nonsense with pre-nerf Master of Disguise. Maybe the reason the stats are so bad is that they wanted to give people the tools to kill it if it was perma-stealthed or something.
LyleLanley
Banned
I don't want to jinx it but I have been going on a tear using an aggro shaman.
none of those cards will be in freeze mage, they will play the murlocs. Fibonacci already played them in winter champ in his maly freeze deck. I think malygos itself could go out in favor of torches and the new kobold. I think that card can be the sleeper hit. You want a much faster deck to compensate for mad scientists.
We haven't seen spellpower +2 card before in a mage deck. This card will be interesting, it doesn't matter it doesn't draw, you already play thalnos anyway.
We haven't seen spellpower +2 card before in a mage deck. This card will be interesting, it doesn't matter it doesn't draw, you already play thalnos anyway.
Karsticles
Member
Thinking about running this for the new tempo/casino mage:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...95:2;14445:2;27249:2;33155:2;35184:2;35244:2;
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...95:2;14445:2;27249:2;33155:2;35184:2;35244:2;
TheSadRanger
Banned
Has Blizz said anything about the monthly reward chests? Is it possible to get GVG cards in it or just classic,TGT, and wog?
LyleLanley
Banned
I will pay Blizzard as much money as they want if they'd let me play in games with quicker turns. Going to the rope on turn one, especially after they've made a move already, is the fucking worst.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Standard cards only. So starting this month it will be Classic, TGT and WOG, no GvG.
If Obsidian Destroyer is played in a list where that's the top of the curve, it's not impressive. It got some play in Reno Warrior, only because it's as close to a 30 legendary deck as I've seen that was legitimate and viable.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think tempo mage got anything other than demented frostcaller and you probably don't run 2 of those simply because of it's stat-line being very bad for a 4 drop. Also I think twilight flamecaller could be a part of the new tempo mage list.
The yogg sauron servant is the only other card I think could become a good piece in the tempo mage set and you'll have to cut a consistent card that has more synergy so... probably not quite yet.
Then again tempo mage lost mad scientist, perhaps the best early game tempo card in the entire deck so who knows if tempo mage is even worth playing still.
So we reviewed Shaman on our stream today. So I built a deck. It feels nuts to me. I literally only included 2 neutrals.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...46:2;33159:2;33160:2;33163:2;35226:2;35231:2;
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...46:2;33159:2;33160:2;33163:2;35226:2;35231:2;