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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
irfaanator
Banned
yea I realized what you meant after a bit lol
Karsticles
Member
Nefarian just gave me double Frost Shock after my opponent equipped Doomhammer.
I...I love you, Nefarian. :-O
I...I love you, Nefarian. :-O
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Give back fucking Lightbomb Blizzard fucking meta is a joke. Its a bunch of brainless chug everything on the board and hope something sticks decks. Game needed way better board clears in this expansion.
Lightbomb is in Wild.
Stephen_drewz
Member
Can't even escape Shaman in arena. Turn 4 he has a 6-3 and a 7-7.
Quit.
Quit.
Karsticles
Member
The meta is horrible right now. Nothing but aggro, and there's no reason to play anything else.
If I never see another Lightbomb it'll be too soon. And I CRAFTED Lightbomb. For a brawl! I love that card! But it's disgusting.
Tempo Mage putting in work for me. To be fair. I am running into a lot of opponents that will see me ping, assume I'm playing freeze mage then just play super conservative letting me draw cards until I can just do 15+ face damage or clear the board with Flamewakers. Flamewakers and Arcane Blast really keep Floodlock under control while Frostbolt is keeping Shaggro under control. Mid Range Shamans are giving me heart attacks though. At that point they have too many minions and the card quality is too good. At one point I had to burst down a Paladin from 24 so that he wouldn't think to heal yet.
The temporary decline of Zoo has me in love with the meta right now. Faceless summoner is exactly what Mage needed to stabilize on Turn 6. Let's see how far I can go before I start running into the expensive part of the ladder where everyone is playing control. But that's what I have Miracoli for!
LoE vs OG Tempo Mage
I'm liking OG a lot lot lot lot more. It's much less reliant on drawing super duper well and the minions it runs now let's you still contest the board when Priest remove your early game minions. Lack of secrets make the whole deck smoother and more granular. It's actually a deck that plays for board control where trading needs to happen sometimes when you can't use removal. Instead of being a mediocre control deck where the win condition is hoping your Flamewakers don't get removed and getting them to do 20+ face damage.
Cabalist Tome is godly. Yogg is a win condition. New Tempo Mage is less cancerous and more consistent.
this is inaccurate.
Karsticles
Member
Alright, Freeze Mage is still good, and there's N'Zoth Paladin, but 95% of what I play is aggro. I played 15 matches with Dragon Priest tonight, and 10 of my matches were Shaman. 2 were Hunter. 1 was Patron Warrior. 1 was Pirate Warrior. 1 was Divine Shield Paladin. That's all aggro - nothing but aggro.
I was all pumped for Dragon Priest, but I get out-tempo'd by every other tempo deck. I eventually added Excavated Evil x2 and Auch+CoH combo x2 just to be able to reset the board when I eventually lose it, and that was an improvement on my position. :-(
There's only 2 aggro deck that worth playing right now, one admitedly super imba and other is hard countered by several deck.. bubble pally is toast on tryhard rank, face hunter is ultra sad I don't know why you even would play it
On rank 10 above I only see tempostorm tier 1-2 deck, good job website.
you don't understand what aggro is.
Karsticles
Member
Yes, I do, and all of those decks are aggro save Patron Warrior. Sure, a few of the Shaman were midrange, but they were mostly aggro.
I've fought ONE control deck in the last 3 days.
I've seen bubble Paladin at rank 5, so it must work well enough for people to get there?
Basically every HS meta ever.
Its much worse zoo deck, mainly taking advantage of unstable meta back then.. there's really no reason to play this over real zoo
Steward of Darkshire is the inferior 3-drop Darkshire
really didn't think I met aggro deck that not shaman or zoolock after rank 10
but yeah oh boy its rampant at teen rank
Aggro Paladin is legit and people are sleeping on it. Just like Midrange Hunter. Just because somewhat better versions of those exist doesn't make them not strong enough to ladder with.
Here's how Aggro Paladin becomes prevalent on ladder:
*Top streamer plays deck, gets to high rank Legend with it.
*Other streamers take note and x copy it.
*Their followers use it on Ladder increasing frequency.
*Tempostorm ups the tier of the deck.
*Now deck is extremely popular in ladder.
It's like clockwork. Mr Yargut and pals brought Hunter back into the ladder meta.
Also no one told me but apparently there's a new Tempostorm tier list up.
In tier 1 they got Tempo Warrior and Midrange Shaman now with Zoolock at the top of tier 2. Exactly as predicted really, now we have two Shaman decks in tier 1.
No Cthun decks in tier 1 and 2.
Here's how Aggro Paladin becomes prevalent on ladder:
*Top streamer plays deck, gets to high rank Legend with it.
*Other streamers take note and x copy it.
*Their followers use it on Ladder increasing frequency.
*Tempostorm ups the tier of the deck.
*Now deck is extremely popular in ladder.
It's like clockwork. Mr Yargut and pals brought Hunter back into the ladder meta.
Also no one told me but apparently there's a new Tempostorm tier list up.
In tier 1 they got Tempo Warrior and Midrange Shaman now with Zoolock at the top of tier 2. Exactly as predicted really, now we have two Shaman decks in tier 1.
No Cthun decks in tier 1 and 2.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Aggro paladin usually becomes popular when it is good against the meta. While zoo and shaman are good, I doubt paladin will be a high tier.
Stephen_drewz
Member
Sigh, I just can't get past 2-3 in arena and it's becoming pretty damn discouraging. Feels horrible doing 2-3 nights of quests depending on what gold value they roll, then buy a ticket and it's over in ~30 minutes.
Ill admit I have been very casual(and still am) when it comes to playing so I have pretty much zero drafting ability. I use the ArenaCompanion overlay that gives me tier list values but it has a 5 second wait before it gives its value, so I use this time to make my own decision, then compare to the value and see whether we both made the same choice, or if its different who's decision was better. Usually around card 15 or so I will start almost completely ignoring the value and focus on curve and prioritizing minions or spells depending on what I am lacking.
Just completed by 7th Arena since old gods and still, 2-3 is my best. I don't expect to become infinite in a few weeks but some progress would have been nice. /rant
Ill admit I have been very casual(and still am) when it comes to playing so I have pretty much zero drafting ability. I use the ArenaCompanion overlay that gives me tier list values but it has a 5 second wait before it gives its value, so I use this time to make my own decision, then compare to the value and see whether we both made the same choice, or if its different who's decision was better. Usually around card 15 or so I will start almost completely ignoring the value and focus on curve and prioritizing minions or spells depending on what I am lacking.
Just completed by 7th Arena since old gods and still, 2-3 is my best. I don't expect to become infinite in a few weeks but some progress would have been nice. /rant
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Could just be your deck is bad, bad in the current meta, or perhaps has a particularly bad match up. What deck match ups are you thinking of?
Yup, aggro pally is only good when the meta is filled with control decks that value high hand size. Even then it's hard now because paladins currently have among the weakest low mana minions available in standard.
I realize my statement is very anecdotal. It's a feeling, I don't have any actual numbers to compare. The meta is still shifting too. But it's not like I've only played a single deck over the past few weeks. People seem to be complaining about Priest being in a bad situation, but it seems to me they are quite heavily favored against mid-range shaman and even more so against control/n'zoth paladin. That last one seems almost unwinnable for example. Unless maybe it's against a Dragon Priest, but I don't think that's ever been that great.
I'm sure there's more examples to think of. Match-ups never seemed that much of a deciding factor before.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
That was funny, kripp talking about how easy aggro and tempo are... then makes a very obvious mistake of not healing his 1/2.
Then he has the easiest match up of his life and holds every single card he could possibly need.
Yeah, control so hard!
edit:
Wow... that yogg match, he holds onto sylvanas for like 5 turns for no reason. Loses to freezing trap. LMAO. Salty mofo blamed yogg too!
Try Mage/Paladin in arena? They are usually pretty easy and both have some really good value cards.
I'm new to Hearthstone streamers or whatever, but do people actually like Kripp? Coming from MtG no one would take someone who complained about aggro archetypes in general like this seriously. Sometimes there are really degenerate combos that need an answer but if you have a problem with attacking with creatures then what are you doing
toastyToast
Member
I started with this a few days ago and thing seemed to be going alright but I'm 22 on ranked and I'm getting bodied left and right. My deck isn't far off the standard stuff and it seems like everyone else has crazy synergy. Am I supposed to bide my time doing quests to get a decent deck or start spend money now?
He the most popular streamer out there and yeah people like me like him, and oh boy don't you compare aggro in HS like in other card game.
OK so here is a summary of what I have learned so far for playing Shaman:
Did I miss anything or get anything wrong?
I'm now using this deck and my win rate is around 50% after 47 games.
- Don't keep Flametongue Totem in your starting hand unless you also have 2 other things it can buff.
- If possible, always hero power before casting a damage spell in case you get the Wrath of Air totem.
- If you're playing Tuskarr Totemic and you have other minion(s) already on the board, play it to the left of them in case it summons Flametongue Totem.
- If your starting hand is bad (i.e. no non-overloaded 1 or 2 drops) even after mulliganing, there is a high chance you will not win the game.
- Don't coin Totem Golem on turn 1 because then you will not have anything to play for turn 2 due to overload.
- Don't use Lightning Storm unless the opponent has at least 3 minions on the board and using it will clear them all.
- Avoid evolving Flamewreathed Faceless as its stats will get worse.
- Don't use Evolve until the end of your turn as the evolved minions will not be able to act until next turn unless they have Charge.
Did I miss anything or get anything wrong?
I'm now using this deck and my win rate is around 50% after 47 games.
Go outside and do other things.
The darks hire councilmen needs to be nerfed.
Everything else feels balanced(minus dr 4 but that's obvious)
Oh, funniest moment I had slyvannas on board, opponent plays yogg, I get yogg when it kills slyvannas and I get the rest of the spells, it was pretty great
There's a new midrange Shaman list on the TempoStorm meta snapshot that's more of a hybrid between aggro and midrange that is probably better for ladder at the moment. I would check that one out.
I like him when he plays arena.
3 wins is average when new.
5-6 wins when better.
0-3 every once in a while.
What classes do you play? Top three are Rogue, Mage, and Paladin.
I start worrying about early game when I get to around pick 20.
Core of your card deck should be valuable 2 and 4 drops with no more than five 5 drops and sprinkles of the end 6/7+ drops.
As for 1 drops, neutrals to look out are Zombie Chow, Argent Squire, and Clockwork Gnome.
Some autopicks: Argent Commander, Argent Horserider, Piloted Shredder, Frostbolt, Board clears, Faceless Summoner, Murloc Knight, Keeper of Ulda, Shielded Minibot.
Take weapons whenever offered especially in Hunter, Shaman, and Warrior. Paladin always needs Truesilver Champion. Muster for Battle guarantees 5+ wins.
That's how I play. I see streamers with greedier decks, and they can get away with them. I can't.
Evolve after trading since it is also a heal. That 7/1 Faceless is basically used up, but if he can be revived into a 5 drop suddenly there's a whole new problem to deal with. Coining Totem Golem is all right if that's your only 1/2 drop in hand. Never concede with the midrange deck.. it often seems to be losing until suddenly it wins.
This is not a hard-and-fast rule. Sometimes you'll have to adjust that number based upon the deck you're up against. A lot of times, control decks may not play very many minions at all and so it can be very difficult to find yourself in a situation where they have 3 low health minions on board. So if a very reactive priest has like a Northshire Cleric and a Museum Curator in play, then that might be the best time in the match for you to get value off Lightning Storm. But certainly if you're up against another Shaman or Zoo or something then playing Lightning Storm with only 2 minions on board that can be pretty bad.
And will stay that way forever, unless Blizzard change the awful ranking system.
EDIT: it's just occurred to me, obviously all the deck optimisation that's been done in Hearthstone so far has been towards making decks for good players, but has the question even been asked if it's possible to make a deck for people who are average or bad players?
Presumably I'm supposed to fall on my sword in this situation then:
this is the midrange warrior list I'm using on my F2P EU account.
Don't have Blood to Ichor, Cairne, Ragnaros, Varian or Grom from the Tempo Warrior list, Substituted Sylvanas for Cairne, an extra Kor'kron for Ragnaros, Kraken for Varian and an Arcanite Reaper for Grom. Running one Cruel and one Brawl instead of the Blood to Ichors. (Since I'm running Sylvanas I put in a brawl for the synergy. Might end up putting in a second Cruel Taskmaster instead, we'll see.
Was considering Justicar but the games I lose he wouldn't have helped me win. Feels bad not using my only other neutral legendary but he just doesn't fit the deck. Also thought about Inner Rage instead of Blood to Ichor but Cruel Taskmaster puts a body on board and I feel board presence is more important than the flexibility of a 0-mana spell.
Don't have Blood to Ichor, Cairne, Ragnaros, Varian or Grom from the Tempo Warrior list, Substituted Sylvanas for Cairne, an extra Kor'kron for Ragnaros, Kraken for Varian and an Arcanite Reaper for Grom. Running one Cruel and one Brawl instead of the Blood to Ichors. (Since I'm running Sylvanas I put in a brawl for the synergy. Might end up putting in a second Cruel Taskmaster instead, we'll see.
Was considering Justicar but the games I lose he wouldn't have helped me win. Feels bad not using my only other neutral legendary but he just doesn't fit the deck. Also thought about Inner Rage instead of Blood to Ichor but Cruel Taskmaster puts a body on board and I feel board presence is more important than the flexibility of a 0-mana spell.
Karsticles
Member
Getting dust from Arena is an insult.
Aggro is strong in Hearthstone because the attacker can target minions, and nothing heals to full.
MTG is undeniably the better designed game, but having played Spellweaver and Hex, declaring blockers is kind of irksome. The only pure digital card game that handles this right is Infinity Wars, IMO.
Aggro is weak in MTG because you choose blockers and minions heal to full, so you just need one beefy wall to shut everything down.
Aggro is strong in Hearthstone because the attacker can target minions, and nothing heals to full.
MTG is undeniably the better designed game, but having played Spellweaver and Hex, declaring blockers is kind of irksome. The only pure digital card game that handles this right is Infinity Wars, IMO.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Aggro isn't weak in mtg. Burn, Zoo and Affinity are staples of the game and standard usually has either RDW or White Weenie.
I agree with Lyng that the ranking system is awful. Blizzard just needs to change the ladder/add a new way of playing the game.
If you look at every E-Sport out there it's very easy for a player to get the same gameplay experience as someone participating in a tournament. In Hearthstone there is no easy way to just have a tournament like experience. We're stuck with the ladder. Sure, you can go out there, gather some people and replicate a tournament like setting. But we're now 3 years in and still nothing in regards to a simple way for players to get a tournament like experience.
Even when you look at MTG basically every player plays the same way with their standard/modern/etc decks as a player in a Grand Prix/Pro tour would.
Beyond that an aggro deck is just the most efficient way to play on the ladder, and that will always be the case unless the winrate of the average aggro deck drops significantly which will not happen ever.
If you look at every E-Sport out there it's very easy for a player to get the same gameplay experience as someone participating in a tournament. In Hearthstone there is no easy way to just have a tournament like experience. We're stuck with the ladder. Sure, you can go out there, gather some people and replicate a tournament like setting. But we're now 3 years in and still nothing in regards to a simple way for players to get a tournament like experience.
Even when you look at MTG basically every player plays the same way with their standard/modern/etc decks as a player in a Grand Prix/Pro tour would.
Beyond that an aggro deck is just the most efficient way to play on the ladder, and that will always be the case unless the winrate of the average aggro deck drops significantly which will not happen ever.
Late night laddering is so much fun. I end up seeing more than just priest and shaman,
Last night had one of my best, most disciplined played matches ever vs a control warrior.
Basically he had already used 1 brawl, and I knew he had the other one so i cleared his board and mine and dropped soggoth,
We spent 4 or 5 turns where he did nothing but armor up and I did nothing but attack with soggoth, knowing full well any board or any use of silver hand recruit would cause the brwl to come down. Soggoth destroyed his armor and got him down to 14 before he couldn't take it anymore and he had to play his golden monkey. Luckily, I kept 1 equality, 1 pyro and 1 peacekeeper around and destroyed his gruul, and then finished it up with my n'zoth when he had nothing left to counter it. It was a half hour match and it was so much fun
Last night had one of my best, most disciplined played matches ever vs a control warrior.
Basically he had already used 1 brawl, and I knew he had the other one so i cleared his board and mine and dropped soggoth,
We spent 4 or 5 turns where he did nothing but armor up and I did nothing but attack with soggoth, knowing full well any board or any use of silver hand recruit would cause the brwl to come down. Soggoth destroyed his armor and got him down to 14 before he couldn't take it anymore and he had to play his golden monkey. Luckily, I kept 1 equality, 1 pyro and 1 peacekeeper around and destroyed his gruul, and then finished it up with my n'zoth when he had nothing left to counter it. It was a half hour match and it was so much fun
Karsticles
Member
I should have said relatively weaker.
I hate that the ladder is more time-based than skill-based. I will never be legend because of the needed time investment. The longer I play the game in one sitting the more likely it is for me to go on tilt. So I can hit Rank 5 at best each month.