bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
the OTK priest deck on reddit is now all over the ladder.
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Only if you are a good player. I have never reached above rank 12. And I do like Hearthstone, I'm just really bad at it.
Priest is on ladder again? Midrange Hunter and Tempo Warrior is back on the menu boys!
I'm pretty sure that Aggro Shaman is the best deck in standard and wild right now. It's pretty remarkable. Been running this list in Wild and just going to town. I'll never understand why Bloodmage Thalnos isn't ubiquitous in these lists.. that extra point of reach is super helpful. And I don't feel bad playing it in wild because everything there is cancer.
Today I've had one of the most humiliating Arena experiences in a very long time. First the draft is garbage card after garbage card, then the opponents destroy me and they were all priests and hunters, and finally the card pack was 40 dust.
I hope tomorrow is a much better day but I don't want to touch this game right now after that.
I hope tomorrow is a much better day but I don't want to touch this game right now after that.
Karsticles
Member
I'd say that Shaman requires far more decision-making than Secret Paladin did. It's not autoplay. However, the minions it summons are SO STRONG that you can make more errors than your opponent, and if you play well your opponent will be completely overwhelmed. So while Secret Paladin completely played itself, I think Shaman just has a significantly higher margin of error due to its strength.I kind of want to ladder with Shaman just so I can say "SEE? EVEN A CRAP PLAYER LIKE ME CAN RANK UP" but what if I don't rank up?
I think I'd rather just seethe about how unfair Shaman is and assume it's an easy mode deck for morons.
I had a fun game this morning where a Shaman had a full board against my no minions, and after he attacked he evolved his minions. One of them ended up as Acidmaw, which means on my turn I had a 1 mana spell, Whirlwind, which cleared his board and gave me control of the game from that point on. Even his dumb 0 mana 5/5 Taunt minions didn't save him.
I would say that midrange Shaman takes a little bit more skill than the Hybrid Hunter deck I ran pre-Standard.
My feeling is this: I REALLY want to grow my collection, and ladder is probably the most efficient way to do that. I HATE the anxiety over whether I will hit rank 5 each month. So I chose to go Shaman this month to get rank 5 ASAP, and I haven't touched the deck since. Now I can just play what I enjoy (or fool around) without consequences.Warrior is my favorite class, I'll always play warrior games.Plus in this meta there is so much variety in Warrior it'd be tough to get bored. Even in wild there's ton of cool Warrior decks no one is playing. I'm convinced that once my Warrior is golden my win rate is gonna go up at least 2 points.
I have a pretty respectable collection, I've never hit rank 5 in over 2 years of playing. The only efficient way to do it is with $$$... you can always make more money, but you will never get that time back. But that of course is a personal thing. If I could play 8 hours a day uninterrupted I would be singing a different tune.
Karsticles
Member
A separate question in case no one reads what I wrote below:
Why don't people use Questing Adventurer at all? Duelyst has a similar card called Chakri Avatar in its Songhai faction, and it's pretty godlike if it is left alone for a turn.
Something I've been reflecting on:
I have a ton of fun with the Songhai faction in Duelyst. It's the most fun I've ever had in a card game. This weekend, I was trying to piece together why. At first I thought I just loved the board play in the game, and I think that's still true, but other factions like Magmar are pretty boring to me.
Then, someone on the Duelyst Discord said "Songhai controls the board from its hand", and it occurred to me that I REALLY like how Songhai can pretty much empty its hand of 4 cards, and draw back 4 more if you used them all skillfully. There's a strong potential for from-hand card burst, there's good control, and there's a kind of "precision strike" feel to it that's really satisfying.
In Hearthstone, since I like Control decks in MtG, I thought I would want to play Priest or Mage as my main class. I've been very unhappy with Control Priest (partially because it sucks), and Freeze Mage is the Bees Z's. It occurs to me that, maybe, I should have been playing Rogue all along, so that is where I am going to turn my focus: N'Zoth Rogue, Shadowstep Rogue, and Miracle Rogue.
I would spend more $$$ if I thought it would be worthwhile. In the $80 I spent for OG's release, the only thing I got was a lot of dust. 50 OG packs, 50 Classic packs, TWO legendaries total, and they were awful ones. There's an urge I have, like a gambler, to buy more packs because I might get something I need, but I have to keep remembering that 100 packs didn't get me anything. My experience with Duelyst was pretty much the same, too, but I'm glad I bought to support their small dev team. I want to see that game flourish.
Why don't people use Questing Adventurer at all? Duelyst has a similar card called Chakri Avatar in its Songhai faction, and it's pretty godlike if it is left alone for a turn.
Something I've been reflecting on:
I have a ton of fun with the Songhai faction in Duelyst. It's the most fun I've ever had in a card game. This weekend, I was trying to piece together why. At first I thought I just loved the board play in the game, and I think that's still true, but other factions like Magmar are pretty boring to me.
Then, someone on the Duelyst Discord said "Songhai controls the board from its hand", and it occurred to me that I REALLY like how Songhai can pretty much empty its hand of 4 cards, and draw back 4 more if you used them all skillfully. There's a strong potential for from-hand card burst, there's good control, and there's a kind of "precision strike" feel to it that's really satisfying.
In Hearthstone, since I like Control decks in MtG, I thought I would want to play Priest or Mage as my main class. I've been very unhappy with Control Priest (partially because it sucks), and Freeze Mage is the Bees Z's. It occurs to me that, maybe, I should have been playing Rogue all along, so that is where I am going to turn my focus: N'Zoth Rogue, Shadowstep Rogue, and Miracle Rogue.
That's 2 years of playing - I want it now, haha.
I would spend more $$$ if I thought it would be worthwhile. In the $80 I spent for OG's release, the only thing I got was a lot of dust. 50 OG packs, 50 Classic packs, TWO legendaries total, and they were awful ones. There's an urge I have, like a gambler, to buy more packs because I might get something I need, but I have to keep remembering that 100 packs didn't get me anything. My experience with Duelyst was pretty much the same, too, but I'm glad I bought to support their small dev team. I want to see that game flourish.
I can see that. I think the reason I'm so suspicious of claims that Shaman is a class that takes skill to pilot is because I also saw people making those same claims about Secret Paladin, and no one will ever convince me that that is the case.
I don't know why I can't do this, play the strongest decks to rank up and then play fun decks the rest of the season, but I can't. I want to win (a lot) but I want to win on my terms with the decks I like to play. I laddered for, what two seasons or so?, almost exclusively with fatigue warrior. That's not efficient, but dang was it fun.
Also, being honest, I don't care about my rank at all, other than it sucks dealing with rude assholes who disrespect my feelings about the game because I'm not Rank 5, when I personally think that's more a reflection of your time commitment than your skill.
My aversion to playing whatever the consensus strongest deck is has lead to my greatest regret, never learning to play pre-Warsong nerf Patron Warrior. While I'm proud that I never succumbed to Undertaker Hunter or Secret Paladin, now that I'm such a Warrior fanboy I wish I had experienced that deck in its prime.
I played a lot of the cancer netdecks just to finish quests, never for extended periods of time. I always found Zoo and Shaman reward just a little bit of thought, insight and planning with spectacular results, while also having enough power level that you could make minor mistakes and not be doomed for it. Secret Paladin was never calculated. You mulliganed based on the mana numbers, played the hand as it was fed from the deck, and either won or lost. A bot could do just as well/poorly depending on how well your opponent was prepared for it. And on the flip side, if they were ready for all your dudes, there was nothing you could do to turn it around. You couldn't suddenly just win by piecing together lethal from a bunch of garbage. Just as it lacked the mechanisms to fail, it also lacked the mechanisms to succeed if you made the right call despite things not going your way.
irfaanator
Banned
b/c by the point you play your malygos you should have won the game. You don't need conceal since your dmg is mainly coming from spells not minions
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
losing 3 games in a row in arena you stood a chance had you drawn your flamestrike even once feels bad. 2-3
Wait there's something that's auto-pilot noobscrub tier? Because I would love to get right on that.
I mean, you basically just explained it. Questing Adventurer can be godlike if left alone for a turn.
On curve, it is a 3 mana 2/2 which is poor tempo and very easy for your opponent to deal with. So you have to play it as some kind of multi-turn combo card in the late game. The best deck for it is Miracle Rogue and you could certainly do some conceal shenanigans with it but Miracle just has more consistent win conditions than that.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I just got Call the Wild'ed in arena, by a mage... 0-2 after losing to another mage by 2 damage.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
A separate question in case no one reads what I wrote below:
Why don't people use Questing Adventurer at all? Duelyst has a similar card called Chakri Avatar in its Songhai faction, and it's pretty godlike if it is left alone for a turn.
Something I've been reflecting on:
I have a ton of fun with the Songhai faction in Duelyst. It's the most fun I've ever had in a card game. This weekend, I was trying to piece together why. At first I thought I just loved the board play in the game, and I think that's still true, but other factions like Magmar are pretty boring to me.
Then, someone on the Duelyst Discord said "Songhai controls the board from its hand", and it occurred to me that I REALLY like how Songhai can pretty much empty its hand of 4 cards, and draw back 4 more if you used them all skillfully. There's a strong potential for from-hand card burst, there's good control, and there's a kind of "precision strike" feel to it that's really satisfying.
In Hearthstone, since I like Control decks in MtG, I thought I would want to play Priest or Mage as my main class. I've been very unhappy with Control Priest (partially because it sucks), and Freeze Mage is the Bees Z's. It occurs to me that, maybe, I should have been playing Rogue all along, so that is where I am going to turn my focus: N'Zoth Rogue, Shadowstep Rogue, and Miracle Rogue.
That's 2 years of playing - I want it now, haha.
I would spend more $$$ if I thought it would be worthwhile. In the $80 I spent for OG's release, the only thing I got was a lot of dust. 50 OG packs, 50 Classic packs, TWO legendaries total, and they were awful ones. There's an urge I have, like a gambler, to buy more packs because I might get something I need, but I have to keep remembering that 100 packs didn't get me anything. My experience with Duelyst was pretty much the same, too, but I'm glad I bought to support their small dev team. I want to see that game flourish.
Is there any card that is considered good just because it is good if left alone for a turn? Hearthstone is just too fast for that.
I've definitely seen it work in miracle rogue but vancleef is simply way better. Adventurer can be better than vancleef with conceal, but hard to fit it in just for that.
This makes me feel better about how crap I am, I've only been playing 15 months.
Karsticles
Member
It's not super-skillful, but definitely above Secret Paladin. I'd say that Shaman have to do all of the following in terms of planning that's unique to the deck:
1) Consider the pros/cons of a Hero Power effect on the board, given its RNG (especially prominent when you want to use Lightning Storm and have to think about whether you are willing to risk 2 mana on getting a full clear).
2) Using resources like Rockbiter Weapon to clear early minions and maintain board vs. keep for Doomhammer combo.
3) Playing around overload, and when to sacrifice tempo to reduce overload so your next-turn tempo is better.
4) When to use your single Lightning Storm (in most decks).
5) What to spend Hex on (in midrange).
I think that's roughly in line with a Hybrid/Midrange Hunter thinking about optimal UTH use, Kill Command for clears vs. face, playing less tempo in your turn for more Steady Shots, and how to best use your weapons/traps.
It sounds like you're a little more Johnny than Spike, and I'm a little more Spike than Johnny in how we like to win.
Rank 5 Shaman took me a total of 6 hours, I think. Hybrid Hunter took me much longer. There's definitely a time component to it, and if you're playing Fatigue Warrior, your time component is going to be a hell of a lot more than mine.
Do you kill the opponent on the same turn you play Malygos, so you're expecting to land Thaurissan on Malygos + all of your damage spells beforehand? I have zero experience against this deck. Is it trying for a Freeze Mage-style OTK with no board before the drop?
The proper order is:
1) Shaman to rank 5.
2) Relax and do whatever.
That's actually exactly what I was thinking. It's kind of a crappy Van Cleef, though.
I don't think Hearthstone is too fast for it. My Duelyst matches typically end as fast as my Hearthstone matches. The differences is that there are close to zero ways to protect a minion for a turn in Hearthstone, and since Duelyst has the board to play with, you can surround it by other minions or your general to protect it for a turn. If you play Songhai like I do, you can even teleport minions around the board to keep them safer, longer. With proper card synergy, those teleports are actually dealing damage to your opponent, so it isn't really prolonging the game, it's just protecting the minion while it does its job. In Hearthstone, anything above 5 mana needs a good Battlecry to justify including it because everything dies so fast. Another good comparison is MtG or Spellweaver, where many games end by turn 7 or 8, but your turn 1 drop can still be on the board because creature removal isn't free.
I'm sure I could hit rank 5, especially in Wild. All you need is a lack of gag reflex, that's always been what stopped me.
I'd still like to end the month with a single digit rank. I already have the Rank 5 chest.
Karsticles
Member
It's not terribly important to me. It only influences your starting place next month, and anything below 10 is usually fast and free.
Hey man, Ben Brode thinks that Secret Paladin is a skill intensive deck because you have to think about keeping secrets in hand for Secret Keeper...
Reason why Chakri Avatar is good is because it's cheaper at 2 mana vs Questing which is 3 mana. Also with one pump a Chakri has good enough stats where as Questing is still below curve after a pump. The stat distribution is a big deal too just like it is with Mana Wyrm and Trogg.. more health means harder to kill.
Plus Songhai has a card that can essentially give minions charge so they can play that card on it and then pump it up for big damage that can't be reacted to. Rogue is really the only class that can use Questing Adventurer and they don't have a charge enabler. So they just used Leeroy and Cold Bloods instead.
Violet Teacher and Van Cleef are used instead. Van Cleef has similar growing capability and Violet Teacher has good stats at 4 and keeps pumping 1/1s.
Reason why Chakri Avatar is good is because it's cheaper at 2 mana vs Questing which is 3 mana. Also with one pump a Chakri has good enough stats where as Questing is still below curve after a pump. The stat distribution is a big deal too just like it is with Mana Wyrm and Trogg.. more health means harder to kill.
Plus Songhai has a card that can essentially give minions charge so they can play that card on it and then pump it up for big damage that can't be reacted to. Rogue is really the only class that can use Questing Adventurer and they don't have a charge enabler. So they just used Leeroy and Cold Bloods instead.
Violet Teacher and Van Cleef are used instead. Van Cleef has similar growing capability and Violet Teacher has good stats at 4 and keeps pumping 1/1s.
irfaanator
Banned
Pretty much. You can try and have maly on the board for multiple turns if you draw out their other removal but ideally once you drop maly you are looking to finish them off that turn
There's no way I could hit rank 5 in Wild, I don't have hardly any of the legendaries that are needed to be competitive there.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
went from going 0-2 to 4-2 in arena, weird. My deck has a high curve but 3 faceless summoners and 3 fireballs put in some work.
Honestly legendaries are probably less important in Wild than they are in standard.
Standard is way more Legendary intensive than Wild is, as long as you still have Loatheb from Naxx and maybe Dr. Boom you will have firepower to spare.
This is exactly on point. I have a suspicion that if Questing Adventurer was a 3/3 it would amazing. It might even be playable as a 2/3, but as a 2/2 for 3 mana? Just not happening.
1 stat point is so profoundly important at low mana levels. A 1/3 for 1 is just so much better than a 2/1 or 1/2.. Once you get into 4+ mana territory you are looking for impatctful abilities as well as stats, but in the first few turns that 1 HP will win or lose you the board.
LucidMomentum
Member
Yeah, one of my early lessons about the game is that a lot of 2 mana minions can trade with 3 mana minions, so make sure you're threes are worth it via abilities and what not.
Johnny likes playing with big minions, right? The best part of warrior is how many big threats you can play. And spike is the winning is the most important thing, right? Winning is important to me (to a fault) but how I win is also important to me.
So yeah, I'm a johnny/spike, and youre a spike/Johnny. At least we can agree that Timmy sucks.
They are Magic terms. Timmy plays big green creatures because they are big. Spikes are net deckers. People that just copy the best deck and play to win. Hearthstone is full of Spikes.
Karsticles
Member
It probably maxes out his strategic thinking ability.
That's true.
You almost never use Inner Focus while the Chakri is a 3/4 or less. With how I use Chakri, it's usually my kill minion. I keep moving it around the board until it's like a 8/10, then I pop Killing Edge + Mist Dragon Seal, which makes it a 15/14, and that usually ends the game whatever I have my opponent at.
Cool, thanks.
Spike - loves to win, needs to win.
Johnny - likes to express him/herself in personal style. (hates netdecking)
TImmy - loves "having fun", which means seeing crazy things happen and playing big minions.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Zoo is a lot more vulnerable to board clears again. It's good vs shaman cause it can stop shaman from getting the board and snowballing. But it has bad match ups vs every other tier 1 deck.
If you manage your board space well, violet teacher pretty much produces the same thing but starts with way better stats per mana. Spells only, but yeah, pretty strong compared to adventurer.
So, I did some research and found a breakdown on the official Magic website and found a description that I feel best represents my play style:
magic.wizards.com said:
TheSadRanger
Banned
Saw this one the reddit hearthstone page, thought it was pretty well done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOPVy2xJDc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOPVy2xJDc
poppedcollar69
Member
im a hardcore johnny
dont really hate netdecking though, it makes it easy to figure out what cards my opponent might play
dont really hate netdecking though, it makes it easy to figure out what cards my opponent might play
That interview was hilarious. Oh yeah, Secret Paladins have to decide to keep MC on 6 or play him. It's like 99.9% always drop MC on 6.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Secret Pala is a straight up curve out deck, you'll always curve out and all decisions are on board. Which isn't much.
Saw this one the reddit hearthstone page, thought it was pretty well done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOPVy2xJDc
"Your deck betrays you..."
Are you playing on mobile? I have a bug that regularly prevents me from using hero power unless i intentionally close the game and reconnect in the middle of the match. As soon as you see crazy crap happening, its a safe bet to reconnect.
Karsticles
Member
Perfect response.
toddhunter
Member
New fun deck.
Patron warrior + grotesque dragonhawk + charge
Who needs druid combo?
Patron warrior + grotesque dragonhawk + charge
Who needs druid combo?
irfaanator
Banned
isnt that just a different version of the worgen otk deck or at least LOKShadow was running something similar w/ patron + worgen tok