Karsticles
Member
Man, your salt is unreal haha.
I swear I almost never get the perfect Shaman curve either. It's part of why I play midrange instead of aggro.
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
I swear I almost never get the perfect Shaman curve either. It's part of why I play midrange instead of aggro.
Just conveying my experience.
I thought this clip and the next one with Rogue were hilarious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CBksDz6jao&t=1m10s
Just Hearthstone things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CBksDz6jao&t=1m10s
Just Hearthstone things.
So basically if you don't get any paladin commons in a paladin draft, you're fucked.
It does happen.
Sounds like (almost) every Paladin craft I ever had.
Still secret paladin all over the wild ladder. They'll all move over to standard once they get enough dust to craft a couple doomhammers, though.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Nzoth gives Secret Pala a long term plan. Struggling against freeze mage and zoo topdecking exact lethal.
Welp imma stick to standard then. I do miss a lot of cards from Naxx/GvG though. A lot of em were very fun to use. :|
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's a good thing I hit rank 5 early on this month... I haven't really touched HS since OW came out.
LamoTheClown
Neo Member
Fuck this Shaman BS. If there was a deck with a good matchup vs aggro shaman and an auto-loss against everyone else I'd probably still play it.
Need a deck that does well against Midrange Shaman too. Unfortunately I could not find one that wins against both at a win rate higher than 60% consistently.
LamoTheClown
Neo Member
I've been experimenting with a tempo rogue today with undercity valiants but it's too reliant on good draws
Mid range hunter isn't bad. They have a decent amount of answers. I usually do well with Nzoth Priest as well. Also you can just run Shaman yourself
I mean of course I can run Shaman and I SHOULD run Shaman but I want to exhaust all match up options before coming to the final conclusion.Mid range hunter isn't bad. They have a decent amount of answers. I usually do well with Nzoth Priest as well. Also you can just run Shaman yourself
Can't diss the community for being uncreative without trying to find solutions yourself.
Midrange Hunter
I said before and I said it again, Shaman key card just weak for this matchup
Feral Spirit and Flamewreath maybe shouldn't played if you could against hunter, how you even win without feral tho
Control based Warrior also bad matchup
Shaman dominates Hunter from turn 1-5.
Turn 1 they play Firebat, you play Trogg. Good chance the Trogg survives and still keeps hitting face.
Totem Golem beats all Hunter 2 drops except a lucky Toad.
Feral Spirit beats every 3 drop of Hunter and Tuskar Totemic is usually competitive too.
Turn 4 Faceless enough said.
Turn 5 Shaman pulls out Doomhammer or a discounted Thing of Deep plus another drop.
By the time Highmane drops, Shaman usually has Hex to whoop you with.
Shaman plays Midrange better than Hunter does.
Control Warrior loses to Midrange Shaman which is why it has all but phased out in favor of Tempo Warrior which fares better.
Turn 1 they play Firebat, you play Trogg. Good chance the Trogg survives and still keeps hitting face.
Totem Golem beats all Hunter 2 drops except a lucky Toad.
Feral Spirit beats every 3 drop of Hunter and Tuskar Totemic is usually competitive too.
Turn 4 Faceless enough said.
Turn 5 Shaman pulls out Doomhammer or a discounted Thing of Deep plus another drop.
By the time Highmane drops, Shaman usually has Hex to whoop you with.
Shaman plays Midrange better than Hunter does.
Control Warrior loses to Midrange Shaman which is why it has all but phased out in favor of Tempo Warrior which fares better.
toddhunter
Member
Full Fatigue warrior is effective if you can mulligan for an execute. Midrange doesn't actually carry much in the way of big threats and dominates by flooding the board with stuff that has reduced cost.
So execute the 7/7 and then you can brawl the rest while staying out of burst range.
The problem is it'll be effective, but of course very slow.
Control is ineffective against Midrange Shaman.
Shaman wins against Control by just pumping totems and then finishing with Bloodlust or Thunderbluff. Early game pressure with fat minions is enough to finish with Totem burst.
You can't go about removing every single Totem Shaman summons. And the totems are strong in late game because they start blocking stronger minions, healing minions and chipping away at HP. They make it so that Shaman doesn't have to commit too much on to the board against slow control decks.
Sure against aggro Shaman control strategy works fine even if you can still get run over by the deck but Midrange Shaman is a different story altogether.
Shaman wins against Control by just pumping totems and then finishing with Bloodlust or Thunderbluff. Early game pressure with fat minions is enough to finish with Totem burst.
You can't go about removing every single Totem Shaman summons. And the totems are strong in late game because they start blocking stronger minions, healing minions and chipping away at HP. They make it so that Shaman doesn't have to commit too much on to the board against slow control decks.
Sure against aggro Shaman control strategy works fine even if you can still get run over by the deck but Midrange Shaman is a different story altogether.
irfaanator
Banned
sjow did pretty well w/ cthun warrior vs midrange shaman.
First 12 win arena today! Thanks to Levi for a few games.
Pack was disappointing, but nevertheless, 12 wins! Wow.
Took one year and 3 months.
I had zero flamestrikes and 2 frostbolts.
Pack was disappointing, but nevertheless, 12 wins! Wow.
Took one year and 3 months.
I had zero flamestrikes and 2 frostbolts.
I am not personally convinced.
If anything I think Dragon Warrior would fair better.
Alex Champion punishes turn 1 Trogg and allows you to contest the Totem Golem with a follow up to retain tempo.
Blacking Corruptors can snipe Troggs behind Feral Spirits.
Chillmaw can also hold back the aggression/bait the hex.
Plus you can match their curve with over stated dragons of your own if you get the synergies line up. Though Dragon Warrior plays more like a Midrange deck.
irfaanator
Banned
He said the main thing was getting good brawl turns. I think the list also ran revenges as well, I don't remember
Nah man
Doomsayer/freeze trap turn 2, swing the tempo empty the board
btw Caron Grub is better 3 drop than Feral especially followed with houndmaster, Hunter also can weapon up at turn 3
Feral will just destroyed by quick shot or bow, worse if they actually have first turn.. they can one up minion after killing feral
7/7? deadly shot.. Shaman have empty board on turn 4 is happen often at this matchup, man yall gotta give up about this.. dropping this guy on naked board isn't good play except against druid
Tempo Warrior is much more favorable matchup than Control bro, its board based battle afterall.. you don't win against Shaman in minion fight
Congrats on the 12!! I couldn't watch that last game, too stressful.
I dropped to rank 10 playing tempo, dragon, and control warrior... couldn't make any headway. Threw this deck together out of pure "IDGAF" spite and went 7-2 to get back up to the middle of rank 8. Six of those 9 games were the same fucking Shaman deck (I think 60% of the ladder from 25-legend are running the exact same list verbatim FFS), and I beat it five times. Saw two hunters, one of whom Black Knighted my 2/6 taunt and I was like "ooooh, you're gonna regret that."
First version had Blood Warriors because I wanted to duplicate my Soggoth, and out of the first 7 matches the only time it was worth it was when I duplicted two Armorsmiths against an aggressive Shaman and ended up with 4 Armorsmiths on the board. That was some serious lifegain than even his damage output couldn't keep pace with. I cut it (sad) and put in Harrison. Since literally the only decks I see are Hunter and Shaman (and one Bubble Paladin) it makes sense to run him even if it is a boring ass card.
Says can't win against Shaman in minion battle...
Makes argument on how Midrange Hunter beats Midrange Shaman.
Also Deadly Shot AND Doomsayer to counter early game Shaman aggression, man you better hope they don't have Shock or Hex because otherwise you will lose game on spot. Worst yet if they have a Trogg and a Golem in play and you play Doomsayer only to be answered by Flametongue.
Even if you Deadly Shot a Faceless, you haven't actually gained board presence over a Shaman.
The best deck against Midrange Shaman is Zoolock IMO as long as Zoo dodges Lightning Storm.
Makes argument on how Midrange Hunter beats Midrange Shaman.
Also Deadly Shot AND Doomsayer to counter early game Shaman aggression, man you better hope they don't have Shock or Hex because otherwise you will lose game on spot. Worst yet if they have a Trogg and a Golem in play and you play Doomsayer only to be answered by Flametongue.
Even if you Deadly Shot a Faceless, you haven't actually gained board presence over a Shaman.
The best deck against Midrange Shaman is Zoolock IMO as long as Zoo dodges Lightning Storm.
Because Hunter minion isn't baaaaaad?
you look into their list
They Have Kodo, Infested Wolf and you know most powerful non legendary minion in the game
they also have decent removal and buff
they actually can won minion battle with their ability to made it 1 vs 1, Shaman won by ganging up poor sob in ruthless way.. if you can made it 1 vs 1 you had your chance
btw only foolish player throw doomsayer in 2 vs 0 board
Hunter does have some good minions but not a lot in the early game. That's what I was getting at.
Turn 1? Best play is Fiery Bat. It's a decent 1 drop for Hunter but half of the time it can't compete against the stronger 1 drops in the game.
Turn 2? Huge Toad/King's Elekk/Flame Juggler. Pretty standard 2 drops that can be countered by other 2 drops like Totem Golem.
Turn 3? This is usually where Hunter starts its game with the combination of Animal Companion/Carion Grub/Eagle Horn. Animal Companion can sometimes end up being a very weak play if you get a Leokk. Carion Grub can lose to whatever is on the board especially against the 2/3s that people like to play these days.
Turn 4 they have Infested Wolf and Houndmaster. Houndmaster is garbage with no other beast in play but Infested Wolf is the linchpin that starts to secure Hunter's mid game however the card alone can't swing things back by itself as it can't even one shot a Totem Golem.
Turn 5 is kinda iffy too unless you play Stranglethorn Tiger. Ram Wrangler requires beast in play and Kodo requires a 2 attack minion on the enemy's side to be good.
Doomsayer against an empty board is a legit play and people do it to secure your turn/tempo next. Against Shaman that is pretty strong. I have seen Hunters use it on turn 7 to secure their Call of the Wild turn.
Turn 1? Best play is Fiery Bat. It's a decent 1 drop for Hunter but half of the time it can't compete against the stronger 1 drops in the game.
Turn 2? Huge Toad/King's Elekk/Flame Juggler. Pretty standard 2 drops that can be countered by other 2 drops like Totem Golem.
Turn 3? This is usually where Hunter starts its game with the combination of Animal Companion/Carion Grub/Eagle Horn. Animal Companion can sometimes end up being a very weak play if you get a Leokk. Carion Grub can lose to whatever is on the board especially against the 2/3s that people like to play these days.
Turn 4 they have Infested Wolf and Houndmaster. Houndmaster is garbage with no other beast in play but Infested Wolf is the linchpin that starts to secure Hunter's mid game however the card alone can't swing things back by itself as it can't even one shot a Totem Golem.
Turn 5 is kinda iffy too unless you play Stranglethorn Tiger. Ram Wrangler requires beast in play and Kodo requires a 2 attack minion on the enemy's side to be good.
Doomsayer against an empty board is a legit play and people do it to secure your turn/tempo next. Against Shaman that is pretty strong. I have seen Hunters use it on turn 7 to secure their Call of the Wild turn.
toddhunter
Member
Revenge is very good and is the key to the matchup.
Deny brawls? I disagree. Control warrior, maybe. But fatigue warrior is putting huge pressure on by building up armour. The shaman player has to counter that or they are going to lose.
So the warrior player just needs to be patient themselves, revenge a board and then armour back up to 30 and beyond. There is little that a board of totems can do against that unless people don't play the netdeck and we know they will.
Kill the early 7/7 and you (eventually) win.
yes, this is what is happening and you are totally not slipping into a salt-induced madness.
toddhunter
Member
Add eater of secrets to your deck. That will get the shamans back.
It is literally impossible for me to see 4 Rogues in a row at rank 8. There are probably 4 people playing Rogue and 50000 playing Shaman at that rank at that time, and I get matched up with the Rogues and dodge all the Shamans FOUR TIMES IN ROW?!?!
INCONCEIVABLE!
I already know if I switch to any of my decks that are negative or even vs Shaman suddenly I'll get 20 in a row.
I SEE YOU BLIZZARD. I SEE YOU.
Youre telling me NOT to believe in the heart of the cards? Suspicious.
the heart of the cards is a dead cold stone. It holds no love for any man.
You have already lost.
Karsticles
Member
In the middle of a Priest mirror where I have played 12 Shifting Shades because Thoughtsteal gave me double N'Zoth.
Just went 12-2 with this disgusting Mage draft. This is about the most ridiculous top end you can have as a mage without having flamestrike in the deck.
The only reason I didn't go 12-0 is because of the deathlord. I faced back-to-back rogues at around 10 wins where I dropped deathlord on Turn 3 and it pulled out ridiculous 6 drops. Boulderfist Ogre first, then Piloted Sky Golem.
The only reason I didn't go 12-0 is because of the deathlord. I faced back-to-back rogues at around 10 wins where I dropped deathlord on Turn 3 and it pulled out ridiculous 6 drops. Boulderfist Ogre first, then Piloted Sky Golem.
Karsticles
Member
Naga Sea Witch is pure garbage.