irfaanator
Banned
that new replacement in zoolock
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
And I imagine it'll only get larger from here on out, especially if Blizz is content with giving each class its own C'Thun minion. Where are my 3 drops!
I don't think you leave this on board like you do with egg. Egg is 2 mana, this is 4. So my opponent gets a 4 mana 5/5? not a big deal. If you leave this, it can get worse for you. It trades into something, its deathrattle is copied etc. Killing a 5/5 on turn 4-5 isn't hard unlike a 4/4 on turn 2-3. You're killing your opponent's 4 drop, it's not really expensive for you to deal with this.
Control Rogue doesn't exist, tea a shit. Worthless in arena as well, at least it doesn't dilute Rogue's common pool.
lmao this
lmao this
Super Nothing
Member
Agreed. It's 2 more mana than Nerubian Egg for +1/+1 on the hatchling. By the time it hits the board, it's not that impressive.
If this card was released back in the day it would be costed at 3 mana which would make this as strong as Nerubian Egg.
5/5 for 4 mana investment isn't game winning. The one attack is pretty good because it can at least activate itself unlike Nerubian Egg but the tempo loss at 4 is massive. This is a Raptor Rogue card, maybe also usable in Zoolock, maybe also usable in some new Priest lists.
If Cabal isn't nerfed then Priest will love to steal this and also combo with Shadow Madness.
5/5 for 4 mana investment isn't game winning. The one attack is pretty good because it can at least activate itself unlike Nerubian Egg but the tempo loss at 4 is massive. This is a Raptor Rogue card, maybe also usable in Zoolock, maybe also usable in some new Priest lists.
If Cabal isn't nerfed then Priest will love to steal this and also combo with Shadow Madness.
Karsticles
Member
I actually wonder about a Control/Deathrattle hybrid Rogue deck when the new set drops. Contrary to what some people have said, Rogue has a pretty good set of Deathrattle cards for N'zoth, and several of them produce spells/coins for Yogg-Saran as well.
That said, I wish we were keeping Oil.
That said, I wish we were keeping Oil.
Karsticles
Member
Wait until WotOG drops.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think justicar's power level doesn't change and can only go up in the case of the meta becoming slower, for standard.
I think cenarius also is a bit better, depending on the classic/basic nerfs. Who knows if it'll be worth crafting til after the nerfs though. I've always kinda liked cenarius tbh.
Super Nothing
Member
I wouldn't craft Cenarius. He's not a terrible card, but he's generally too slow and doesn't really fit into Druid decks. Druids are also looking at some potentially massive nerfs coming up. I have a golden Cenarius, and I don't think I've ever played him in constructed. He's pretty nice in a few brawls and for the occasional adventure deck, but that's about it.
If it's a choice between just Justicar and Cenarius for Standard play then I would pick Cenarius easy.
Cenarius is a classic card and not a bad one at that. Justicar will be around for a year and then be removed.
For Wild play I would pick Justicar.
However I would wait for Old Gods as there's bound to be at least one high priority Legendary that people would want.
Cenarius is a classic card and not a bad one at that. Justicar will be around for a year and then be removed.
For Wild play I would pick Justicar.
However I would wait for Old Gods as there's bound to be at least one high priority Legendary that people would want.
If you pop this for your opponent, it is a 5/5 with an upside, which is crazy for 4 mana. They don't even take the tempo loss anymore.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I want to craft Ragnaros so bad. It's getting harder and harder to tell myself to wait and see what happens in the expansion before crafting anything. Plus I have no idea what legendaries I will want to craft from the expansion. I have enough dust for 2 and I have 8000+ gold which may get me halfway to another one. Thinking about pre purchasing the packs too, but I've only spent real money on the adventures and I don't know if I wanna go down that road with packs. I told myself I wouldn't ever spend a fucking dime on arena or packs.
Stay strong goddammit.
Stay strong goddammit.
If you have stayed this strong with 8k gold and 3000+ dust then I would wait a bit longer.
After Old Gods comes out I would spend half gold on Classic and half on OG. That way you can fill out your classic collection and hopefully get some nerfed cards that you can DE for higher value. Then use the dust to make some cards.
Though crafting Rag right now is fine. Rag has always been very usable and I expect it to be even better in the expansion.
The main argument for not crafting something like Rag until the expansion pack is you could still get him in a brawl pack in the near future. I just got one in the last week or two from one. You also get "infinite" free classic packs due to brawls.
But yeah, it's a pretty safe choice, and it doesn't seem like there will be a huge number of tokens so far, which helps him quite a bit.
But yeah, it's a pretty safe choice, and it doesn't seem like there will be a huge number of tokens so far, which helps him quite a bit.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Are people still on the fence about chogall? I still think his effect is insane. But so does firebat.
Firebat: Chogal is the next dr. boom.
He also predicts patron lock due to that deal 9 random damage spell for 3 mana.
Firebat: Chogal is the next dr. boom.
He also predicts patron lock due to that deal 9 random damage spell for 3 mana.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
He means on the power level of dr. boom, not the widespread usage.
It could be in some specific instances, but it requires 2 cards to work so it's not going to be nearly as consistent.
Getting board cleared with it or Siphon Soul'd will suck for sure, and provide a big swing, but as far as being extremely powerful every single time it is played I have my doubts. I think it's just an OK card.
Getting board cleared with it or Siphon Soul'd will suck for sure, and provide a big swing, but as far as being extremely powerful every single time it is played I have my doubts. I think it's just an OK card.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I dunno why anyone keeps saying this, because the entire point of Dr. Boom's status as a card IS that it was neutral and so widespread. There are other cards of similar power levels or not far off (e.g. Tirion), but the point is they are only in one class.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm not entirely sure you're understanding the point of comparing chogall to dr. boom. It's a discussion of power level, nothing more.
Cho'Gall is kind of a combo card that requires a certain type of deck and certain conditions to be met before you play him.
I don't think it is useful to call something "the Next Dr. Boom" just because it is a powerful 7 mana 7/7. To truly call something "The next Dr. Boom" what you need is a powerful card that gives insane value for its cost without needing to meet any precondition.
Like, Call of the Wild might be the next Dr. Boom. A comboey Control card is not the next Dr. Boom.
I don't think it is useful to call something "the Next Dr. Boom" just because it is a powerful 7 mana 7/7. To truly call something "The next Dr. Boom" what you need is a powerful card that gives insane value for its cost without needing to meet any precondition.
Like, Call of the Wild might be the next Dr. Boom. A comboey Control card is not the next Dr. Boom.
No. Dr. Boom was mathematically imbalanced by any measure. Making it a Rogue card wouldn't have made it balanced.
irfaanator
Banned
wouldve just meant that rogues wouldve ran it in all their decks.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Rogue is one of the classes that doesn't run dr. boom in all their decks.
irfaanator
Banned
ive seen it in variations of malylock and oil. And wasnt it a staple in oil a while back before LoE
It is kind of like Unearthed Raptor. That's an imbalanced card but the deck itself is balanced because the deck has to make some sacrifices with some of its other cards to work. If you gave Rogues some stronger early game minions in the 1 or 2 drop slot it could easily snowball into some ridiculous tempo deck.
Karsticles
Member
I've come around a bit on Cho'gall, but Patron Warlock with that spell is an 8-mana combination. That sounds rocky.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Patronlock was actually something I was looking forward to trying. Not sure how well it'll work but should be interesting.
Not sure Cho'Gall is THAT good though. I think it's a very good card but Dr. Boom level? I dunno about that.
That Tea rogue card seems solid, Sprint is often too much draw if you're not trying to kill your opponent with a massive weapon and blade flurry so this makes more sense in a slower deck and if it hits on a legendary or other high value cards, it's going to do a lot for your late game. The other card I don't think will see much play outside of Raptor Rogue. It's another one of those cards that thinks one damage above the vanilla stat line is worth a penalty. I also think a 1/1 is worse than a 0/2 for the first form. It doesn't need an activator like Nerubian Egg but playing it for board clear insurance is a lot less effective when it can be opened with a ping.
I don't know that I am happy with Cho'Gall in a deck that runs just one Shadowflame and just one Siphon. Is there any other Warlock spell that people would be happy to combo with Cho'Gall or a deck that would double up on either Shadowflame or Siphon?
Patron Warlock sounds like a bad idea.
The warrior deck has quite a few useful combos,but warlock has almost no use of either card besides this combo.
Cho'gall is good, but calling him the next Dr 7 is quite a stratch.
Boom is a card you can throw into almost any deck and play at almost any time and it is still good.
Cho'gall is already way worse,because you need a spelli your hand.. Plus, warlocks don't have that many amazing and expensive spells.
The warrior deck has quite a few useful combos,but warlock has almost no use of either card besides this combo.
Cho'gall is good, but calling him the next Dr 7 is quite a stratch.
Boom is a card you can throw into almost any deck and play at almost any time and it is still good.
Cho'gall is already way worse,because you need a spelli your hand.. Plus, warlocks don't have that many amazing and expensive spells.
I agree with Firebat. Manage the board with some typical zoolock, get some freebie spells from peddler, load up your hand and as long as you can owl or siphon a taunt out of the way you have a good shot at OTK with one (demon) minion and multiple combinations of inexpensive minion buffs/direct damage spells. Cho'Gall is legit.
Fill your hand with spells while playing zoo?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh
And you know Cho'Gall only works with one spell, right?
Ah I misread thought it was until end of turn. So not a OTK but still great value IMO. Still more cards to be revealed and who knows what future expansions will bring.
I guess it would benefit from Brann too? The point is warlock is about trading life for extra value. Doesn't matter if you are at one health or 30, as long as you win.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's never been staple in oil. In fact I think it's been fairly mediocre in oil the majority of the time of the decks existence. I think post LOE its become more accustomed due to more control decks in the meta, but still often not present.
Chogall is not the next Dr Balanced because Chogall is a class card. So Firebat is 100% incorrect on that end.
The standard for top tier class Legendaries are Grommash, Antonidas and Tirion. Is Chogall on the level of those cards? I don't think so.
Patron Lock sounds like an awful idea. One card won't make Patron Lock a thing. I guess you can also use Mortal Coil but that is so inefficient compared to WW. Like Warriors didn't use Bouncing Blade with Patron Warrior and that is on paper much better at generating Patrons than this card.
The standard for top tier class Legendaries are Grommash, Antonidas and Tirion. Is Chogall on the level of those cards? I don't think so.
Patron Lock sounds like an awful idea. One card won't make Patron Lock a thing. I guess you can also use Mortal Coil but that is so inefficient compared to WW. Like Warriors didn't use Bouncing Blade with Patron Warrior and that is on paper much better at generating Patrons than this card.
The only thing Firebat said was "Cho'Gall works great with Siphon Soul", which is kind of a "well duh" moment on its own. But that's not enough to make the card top tier. You have to consider that you have to have Siphon Soul in your hand, and whether or not that synergy with Siphon Soul alone is enough. Like I said, I could maybe see it in a deck that runs both Siphon Soul and Shadowflame and can afford to double up on at least one of those. That completely excludes Renolock and doesn't even include a bunch of Handlock decks.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Rend Blackhand is 7 mana 8-4 kill a legendary and it doesn't even get included in most dragon decks. Chogal has a little better stats and is a little more flexible, but I don't know if it's that much better.
It makes a ton of sense in a lot of warlock decks, but it still requires you having a spell in your hand with a good spell target in order to play it.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
That is simply not what's implied when you say something is "the next Dr Boom."
It's more like why would you play Patron Lock when you can play Patron Warrior? It's the same philosophy as Freeze Mage vs Maly Shaman.
Warrior has the following tools to use (in Standard):
Whirlwind
Inner Rage
Slam
Revenge
Ravaging Ghoul
Sea Pillager
Cruel Taskmaster
Then combos with:
Frothing Berserker
Armorsmith
Battle Rage
Blood Warriors
Compare to Warlock's tools:
Dread Infernal
Mortal Coil
Demon Wrath (sketchy because it's two damage)
That new 3 mana card
Drain Life (sketchy)
Bane of Doom (super sketchy)
Combos with:
Reliquary Seeker
Power Overwhelming
Void Crusher
Void Terror
Warrior has the following tools to use (in Standard):
Whirlwind
Inner Rage
Slam
Revenge
Ravaging Ghoul
Sea Pillager
Cruel Taskmaster
Then combos with:
Frothing Berserker
Armorsmith
Battle Rage
Blood Warriors
Compare to Warlock's tools:
Dread Infernal
Mortal Coil
Demon Wrath (sketchy because it's two damage)
That new 3 mana card
Drain Life (sketchy)
Bane of Doom (super sketchy)
Combos with:
Reliquary Seeker
Power Overwhelming
Void Crusher
Void Terror
Officerrob
Banned
I don't think Chogal is anything more than a mid tier legendary