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[Mobius and pet octopus]

Abyssal Enforcer has a shit-ton of value in it. Dr. Boom levels of value. It will see play in slower Warlock decks for sure.

I don't think it's that certain. If you really need a hellfire's worth, it's probably before turn 7. And when it isn't a board clear, hellfire is really clunky. This 7 drop is going to be pretty clunky imo. If it only hit minions it would be chillmaw on steroids perhaps.

 

[Yaboosh]

Abyssal is great against shaman at least.

 

[slightconfuse]

Been watching the Chinese NSL tourney. Wish I was around for GvG. Some of these decks look fun

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Abyssal is great against shaman at least.

I think shaman can play around a 3 damage AOE past turn 5 pretty reasonably. At least it stops totems from steamrolling, assuming they haven't tech'd in totemic might. Totem shaman... not as good as midrange shaman currently at least.

 

[Karsticles]

That's exactly what Midrange means.

Midrange means that you still play the early and midrange curve cards and against control decks you play aggressively to kill them fast. That means Bloodlust, Rag, Lightning Bolts to face, Spirit Claws to face.. whatever way you can to kill them fast because you don't win against them by out controlling them.

Against faster decks you control them and keep them off the board.


Game has so few control decks that most of the time as Midrange Shaman you are just trying to control the other degenerate decks from getting out of control and then tempo them out with your threats. Trust me when I say that when I play my Renolock against a Midrange Shaman, there's no controlling going on the Shamans' part (outside of Hexing massive taunts) he's trying to play it like an aggro deck... which is what he should be doing because it's a Midrange deck and he can't win against Renolock in the late game.


There is actually a Control Shaman deck and it's not that bad. It uses Elemental Destruction, Healing Wave, Lava Shock, Hallzeal, Earth Elementals even Bog Creepers to get into the late game. It plays significantly differently from Midrange Shaman because it actually wants to go into the late game.

Hmm, maybe it feels like Control precisely because most of the meta is aggro.

 

[V-Faction]

I feel like I'm watching Oprah. You get an AoE, and you get an AoE! And you! And you!

 

[Yaboosh]

I really want to make a dreadsteed deck.

All I need is two dreadsteeds. And Malganis. And Baron rivedere. And kel thuzad. And void callers.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Hmm, maybe it feels like Control precisely because most of the meta is aggro.

It probably feels like control because they can play the value game due to thunderbluff valiant and even separately their hero power. Plus they are running hard removal and several AOEs. But midrange is designed to be capable of playing defensively as well as aggressively. It sacrifices the reach it originally had (alakir, doomhammer) for this defensive power. Which may be also why you think it's more control.

 

[Pooya]

new card in a few min here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xO103Q36aA

artwork looks like a mage card.

 

[Karsticles]

It probably feels like control because they can play the value game due to thunderbluff valiant and even separately their hero power. Plus they are running hard removal and several AOEs. But midrange is designed to be capable of playing defensively as well as aggressively. It sacrifices the reach it originally had (alakir, doomhammer) for this defensive power. Which may be also why you think it's more control.

Also true.

I really want to make a dreadsteed deck.

All I need is two dreadsteeds. And Malganis. And Baron rivedere. And kel thuzad. And void callers.

Instead of Baron and Kel'Thuzad, my eventual Dreadsteed deck is going to use N'Zoth. That way I just need Mal'Ganis. I got Jaraxxus in the Welcome Pack.

 

[bjaelke]

 

[Pooya]

why.jpg

 

[Yaboosh]

Also true.


Instead of Baron and Kel'Thuzad, my eventual Dreadsteed deck is going to use N'Zoth. That way I just need Mal'Ganis. I got Jaraxxus in the Welcome Pack.

But Baron gets multiple dreadsteeds out as early as turn5-6.


0 mana 5/5 and 0 mana 8/8 and duplicate/echo.

 

[Szadek]

At least it doesn't have taunt?

 

[Pooya]

at least it doesn't have taunt.

edit: damnit

 

[bjaelke]

Might as well play Nerubian Prophet

 

[Nirolak]

Might as well play Nerubian Prophet

You have to have that in your hand though.

 

[Yaboosh]

With how the reveal lady was talking I thought it was going to be a card that draws a secret from your deck.



This card is much weaker than tfb obviously.

 

[Pooya]

you play effigy, then play this for 0. There are enough synergies now that I think secret mage can be a thing. How good it is, it's hard to say as it is with every secret deck, it does have some powerful tools now. You could even play arcane giants I guess. too bad about yogg.

 

[wiibomb]

oh my... oh my yes!

I wanted to build a good secret mage deck for a good while

 

[Szadek]

With how the reveal lady was talking I thought it was going to be a card that draws a secret from your deck.

That's probably the only thing a secret mage deck is missing right now.
With this card, secrets could maybe even work in tempo mage, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet.

 

[ZealousD]

Blizzard really, really wants you to play Secrets.

Every Secret card they print is either pointless of hopelessly overpowered. I wish they would stop.

 

[Szadek]

Blizzard really, really wants you to play Secrets.

Every Secret card they print is either pointless of hopelessly overpowered. I wish they would stop.

We know that since Karazhan.
Not sure if I like curve secret mage.

 

[slightconfuse]

Mage from below. lol

 

[Pooya]

What's interesting about this card that might not be obvious is that it's a somewhat sticky minion actually. If you have effigy, counter spell or spell bender up, it's quite hard or expensive to kill this. You could take a lot of damage if you don't have board control. That has been the case against every secret deck I think, if you don't have board control you could end up losing by a lot.

 

[Drkirby]

Kabalist from Below. This card is pure crap, will never see play

 

[Yaboosh]

Kabalist from Below. This card is pure crap, will never see play

It might see a little bit in an echo deck.

 

[wiibomb]

It might see a little bit in an echo deck.

Duplicate + echo of medivh + effigy..

oh my

 

[Szadek]

I guess priest will also get a 0 mana 5/5, rogues will have to wait a bit,but they will get it soon enough.

 

[Xanathus]

Quite unfortunate that it doesn't have taunt, Effigying this would probably give you a 6 drop.

 

[thepotatoman]

It might see a little bit in an echo deck.

Definitely fits in that deck, and really any deck that Medivh's Valet fits.

There's not really a current popular meta deck that this card works with but I could see some sort of new tempo secret deck being solidly tier 2 or 3 with all these new cards. Like Medivh's Valet, it's a really solid card, just needing a good place to fit.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

If Kabal Lackey sees play, which I expect it to, then there's no reason this card won't see an equal amount of play.

 

[Pooya]

I'm waiting for the heal from the below for priest.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Very good card. In the right deck this thing probably reads 2 mana 5/5, sometimes 0 mana.

Maybe rogue gets one that is reduced for every non-rogue class card played... or maybe every combo triggered.

 

[gutshot]

I'm waiting for the heal from the below for priest.

Costs (1) less for each time a character was healed this game.

 

[zoukka]

Costs (1) less for each time priest hero powered and passed the turn this game.

fixed

 

[Professor Lich]

Costs (1) less for each time a character was healed this game.

Nah. It'll be;

Costs (1) less for each health point healed this game.

 

[Tacitus_]

Sometimes I hate this game. I'm trying a shit deck to get my druid mastery done. My deck is mostly minions, the priest plays a forbidden shaping into goddamn Troggzor while my hand is 2 spells and I draw a spell.

Still won because his Rag wanted to hit face instead of my minions and he didn't draw any aoe.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Paladin's will be 100, reduce this by 10 for each minion summoned but win the game when you holy wrath face and luck out.

 

[Nirolak]

My take is that they want Mage to have a curve/tempo based Secret deck option instead of just Freeze Mage.

Even Mirror Entity on a 1 or 2 drop isn't that bad for a 0 mana secret when your goal is to hold the board and then you get to play this thing for cheap later.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Maybe they balance out thing from below by giving everyone a copy

Spoiler

kappa

I like the prospects of secret mage. Dunno why people go "blizzard stop pushing secrets!" Secrets are good design, honestly, and underrated against a curve deck that just tries to curve out like shaman often wants to. Or like druid had in the past. I am hopeful secrets mage turns out to be good, as long as it isn't only aggro mage.

 

[ZealousD]

Dunno why people go "blizzard stop pushing secrets!" Secrets are good design

Secrets are fine.

It's the OP cards that get built around them that are the problem. See: Mysterious Challenger or Mad Scientist.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Secrets are fine.

It's the OP cards that get built around them that are the problem. See: Mysterious Challenger or Mad Scientist.

Mad scientist eternally overrated and MC is tame in standard... so perhaps it's not as simple as you're suggesting. Besides, we've seen that secrets on their own are generally pretty bad and for them to be playable we need strong secret synergy cards. So this design isn't bad at all.

And then why do people complain when druid gets beast synergy cards? It's like... whenever blizzard tries to push an archetype it gets people complaining. It's not just secrets.

 

[Farewell]

Dream scenario

Turn 1 kabal lackey + mirror entity
Turn 2 kabal lackey + effigy + coin + 2 mana 5/5

But then you have a pretty empty hand.

 

[wiibomb]

Dream scenario

Turn 1 kabal lackey + mirror entity
Turn 2 kabal lackey + effigy + coin + 2 mana 5/5

But then you have a pretty empty hand.

I could throw a Kirin Tor Mage to curve better

 

[Farewell]

I could throw a Kirin Tor Mage to curve better

Oh yes that's true!

 

[rahji]

At least it doesn't have taunt?

damn, had to laugh.

 

[ZealousD]

Mad scientist eternally overrated and MC is tame in standard... so perhaps it's not as simple as you're suggesting.

Mad Scientist isn't eternally overrated. I will fight you on this. It's still worth nerfing.

MC is not tame in standard. It is almost as overpowered as ever. The difference here is that Paladin no longer has the strength in its early game to support that kind of archetype competitively. If you re-introduced Minibot and Muster back into standard it would come roaring back.

And then why do people complain when druid gets beast synergy cards? It's like... whenever blizzard tries to push an archetype it gets people complaining. It's not just secrets.

I don't think people complain about Beast Druid synergy cards? I think people complained about Menagerie Warden because it was perceived as being OP. I heard no complaints about Mark of Y'Shaarj or Druid of the Fang.

 

[Szadek]

Dream scenario

Turn 1 kabal lackey + mirror entity
Turn 2 kabal lackey + effigy + coin + 2 mana 5/5

But then you have a pretty empty hand.

and then the other players doomsayer ,which triggers mirror entitiy.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Mad Scientist isn't eternally overrated. I will fight you on this. It's still worth nerfing.

MC is not tame in standard. It is almost as overpowered as ever. The difference here is that Paladin no longer has the strength in its early game to support that kind of archetype competitively. If you re-introduced Minibot and Muster back into standard it would come roaring back.



I don't think people complain about Beast Druid synergy cards? I think people complained about Menagerie Warden because it was perceived as being OP. I heard no complaints about Mark of Y'Shaarj or Druid of the Fang.

Ever since they intorduced that 5 drop that turns into a 7/7 if you have a beast, people complained about them pushing beast into druid. It's not only beast druid, but pirate warrior, murloc paladin, secret hunter... so many archetypes. Thief rogue... There is always someone going "omg blizzard stop pushing this gimmick I want other cards". People are always complaining about this.

MC is absolutely tame in standard. You can't consider the power of a card in a vacuum. A card's power level in any given deck, especially MC, is reliant on other cards. We don't even see MC played because right now it's power level is far from OP. In wild it's power level has increased because of the nerfs though.

And mad scientist being overrated is my opinion on what it was pre-standard, pre-nerf, with 2mana owl and kezan mystic. And it would certainly rely on it's statistics, I don't buy into the "omg 2 drop that draws and plays a random secret". It was often a very good on curve play but also a very bad off curve play and added inconsistency to your deck and could be a dead card if you drew your secrets out of order. Very overrated because people rarely talked about the downsides of mad scientist and wholly focused on the god curve which is a very poor mentality to have imo. For that reason I think it was overrated. Very good in certain match ups (mage vs. druid) and bad or very bad in others (mage vs freeze mage, mage vs secret paladin).