You can overrate the best card in the game.
Saying Boom gives you a 100% chance of winning the game is overrating it.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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You can overrate the best card in the game.
Saying Boom gives you a 100% chance of winning the game is overrating it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
People didn't even run owl to target mad scientist. They ran that card because of how many deathrattles were being played, plus it was a 2/1 with a silence effect which happened to be a very good value. And when mad scientist appeared, in certain match ups you might silence the owl and you're suddenly in a much better position.
No idea how you're trying to say I think other cards are overrated. This is getting silly. First you say silencing a mad scientist is a terrible move, and then you say the strength of mad scientist is proven by the fact that people run it despite hunters (of all classes who cares about value plays you pick hunters) running double owl. If owl is such a bad play on mad scientist, why are you bringing up that?
Well, once again my main argument gets ignored entirely for some antics and posturing. I am not surprised, history has repeated itself. Not to mention the fact that this was literally one statement in the context of a very different discussion...
Precisely. And I'm not even saying mad scientist was or is a balanced card. I'm simply saying people overrated it (or continue to overrate how strong it was back then, which has changed since OG of course).
BananasWithGuns
Member
Edit: Updated with English version.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
In most cases that's effectively an Ooze but if I wanted to play a 2nd Ooze I'd play a 2nd Ooze.
. . . why?
So you can have a second weapon removal in a Reno style deck maybe?
it might even be better to just throw in a bloodsail corsair, because it's only one mana and then you can just play another minion
Because you are the one who brought it up to begin with as a way to defend your stance that Mad Scientist is overrated.
You bring up all these scenarios of ways that Scientist is "bad" in and can be countered by stuff like Owl and I am saying that is not an efficient counter. Because if it was a good play then that would've deterred people from using Scientist because Owls were common.
If you Silence a Mad Scientist then you are not in a "good" position, in fact you silence Mad Scientist when you are in a bad position to begin with. Why would a Hunter play Owl on a Mad Scientist when they can play their Haunted Creeper instead? They don't. Usually Owl is the best play if you have something like a Juggler in hand and you don't want them getting free value off of it just like playing Juggler into Minibot. As a Renolock player, I don't waste my Owl on Scientist, I just tap or play Doomsayer instead or remove it with Dark Bomb. It's not a great use of my Owl at all. Against Mages it's even worse because they will just play Mana Wyrm, ping the Owl and continue to go to face. So you didn't deal with the 2/2, wasted the turn playing a 2/1 that died for free and they still have the board... you lose the game from that position in many cases.
That's like a major part of why you are saying the card is overrated.. that it gets beat by Silence and the person who silenced it is in a good position when that is not really true in practical matches.
The other reason why you stated that the card is overrated is that sometimes you get a Secret in hand and get Mad Scientist way after that. First of all... pretty much every low drop in the game is bad later on in the game. If a 2 drop isn't played in the first 5 turns then it's not going to be that good later on no matter how good the 2 drop is. Minibot isn't a great turn after turn 6 because it's low impact. Same for Zombie Chow, it's awful late in the game. So saying that Mad Scientist is mediocre because you get it later on in the game is not a good argument to make because that's how low cost cards usually work.
Now we get to the final claim on Mad Scientist which is that sometimes you get Secret first and then you get Scientist (in the first 4 turns because I have already stated how low cost cards are bad after turn 5 anyway) right after that. Unless you drew your 3 Secrets in hand and Mad Scientist... you are still very likely to have one Secret in your deck that can be pulled from Mad Scientist and that is good enough. We are talking about a very uncommon situation here where Mad Scientist might be bad because you drew all of your secrets in your opening hand.
That's equivalent to saying Dr Boom is overrated because you have a chance that the Boom Bots might hit face for 1 attack each and Doom itself gets sniped by BGH (a 3 mana BGH at that). That's again a bad argument to make and how Dr Boom was incorrectly evaluated to begin with. It's about how a card performs on average, not on fringe cases.
The times where you get those bad Mad Scientist draws are FAR OUTWEIGHED by when you play it on turn 2 and you snowball with it. It's a balancing of power and through long time trial and error the community has determined that the pros far outweigh the cons to the point that card is clearly over powered. It is over powered enough that you can afford to reduce your deck overall strength to take advantage of. That's how synergy cards work and Mad Scientist is among the strongest synergy cards in the game.
It's not like we are talking about some fringe competitive card here like Earthenring Farseer. We have mountains of data on this card at the highest levels of play. For someone to come in and claim that the card is "overrated" suggests that there is a good enough reason to not include it in your deck in some cases and I have yet to see any example where it's actually the right call to not play Mad Scientist in either Mage and Hunter. If every Hunter and Mage deck maker starts the deck by putting two Mad Scientists in without even thinking about... there is no metric by which it can be claimed that the card is overrated unless the barometer is "play Mad Scientist on turn 2 = automatic win". By that measure, you can say that Tuskar Totemic was overrated because it didn't always win you the game on turn 3. If Mad Scientist was in Standard right now then it would've been nerfed a long time ago.
The 3 mana Ooze card is really disappointing. Should've just had the Ooze effect.
It's still pretty decent to be honest and you can use to break a War Axe on curve but honestly you can just run an Ooze and a Harrison instead. It fits an awkward middle ground between the two.
This will have a big impact in Arena though. And by big impact I mean it will throw Warrior back into the gutter assuming the status quo is kept. I am still expecting those wide Arena changes that have been stated to be in the work.
It's still pretty decent to be honest and you can use to break a War Axe on curve but honestly you can just run an Ooze and a Harrison instead. It fits an awkward middle ground between the two.
This will have a big impact in Arena though. And by big impact I mean it will throw Warrior back into the gutter assuming the status quo is kept. I am still expecting those wide Arena changes that have been stated to be in the work.
Officerrob
Banned
This is the type of card you put in the final card dump
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
When I'm playing Paladin against Warrior, I let out such a huge sigh of relief when I see the first c'thun card. And lol I had the deal 100 damage quest, was at 21 after winning against a hunter and finished it after playing against the warrior, meaning I dealt 79 damage to him in one game.
BumperLips
Member
Dunno why they couldn't have made it take off 2 or even 3 durability instead of 1.
We've basically seen a (worse) redux of Leper Gnome, Crazed Alchemist, and now Acidic Swamp Ooze.
Out of those 3 ooze is the best, but it's still in a weird spot. I think Spirit Claws would be the main thing holding it down(ofc there could still be new weapons this expansion) since from my experience with a dumb Wild Pirate warrior, Bloodsair Corsair was actually pretty clutch. Most people use weapons on turns it attacks immediately, then the 1 durabilitiy hit clears it anyway. War axe dies on curve being the best thing, but it's also good against gorehowl, truesilver, etc.
But even if you want redundancy in weapon effects, Harrison exists...I can't see putting that in over acidic OR harrison, and if for some reason you ran all 3 you'll be sad against every non weapon class as you know have 3 vanilla ass minions in your deck.
Doesn't help that 3/2 for 2 is solid, so it's not like this really can make up the stats by having a worse battlecry.
Out of those 3 ooze is the best, but it's still in a weird spot. I think Spirit Claws would be the main thing holding it down(ofc there could still be new weapons this expansion) since from my experience with a dumb Wild Pirate warrior, Bloodsair Corsair was actually pretty clutch. Most people use weapons on turns it attacks immediately, then the 1 durabilitiy hit clears it anyway. War axe dies on curve being the best thing, but it's also good against gorehowl, truesilver, etc.
But even if you want redundancy in weapon effects, Harrison exists...I can't see putting that in over acidic OR harrison, and if for some reason you ran all 3 you'll be sad against every non weapon class as you know have 3 vanilla ass minions in your deck.
Doesn't help that 3/2 for 2 is solid, so it's not like this really can make up the stats by having a worse battlecry.
They will just change it to 5-mana.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Played against a control warrior who had to have no clue how to play against paladin. He drew so aggressively I Hero Powered just so he would run his Acolyte of Pain into them, he spent his shieldbash on my 2/3 taunt. He went face with a 4 attack gorehowl then spent all his FWA going face as well. At the end he was still 7 damage of killing me had 3 cards in hand which had to be 2 Brawls and a dead card and I just put down a Lightlord on an empty board so he had no way of winning. Conceded after a couple turns of me not playing anything.
This card is too punishing. You would want this kind of effect to deal with bigger minions, otherwise deadly poison is better. Minions with more than 3 Health normally have higher attack value. Killing Drake, which is a medium-sized minion, would deal 14 damage to your hero. Card would only be playable with Violet Illusionist.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
yeah it got me back into the game and more engrossed than ever before.
I'd be more interested in seeing cards that sacrifice your own weapon's duribility for upsides, it's a much more interest concept than some sort of super niche interaction with enemy weapon durability. Of course, Blade Flurry was a great example of that kind of thing and it was killed but there could also be cards that draw in exchange for durability or provide things that Rogue traditionally doesn't have access to. That just seems so much more interesting than all the Burgle stuff Blizzard has been wasting their time with.
Yeah, I apologise man,I did something I personally dislike: when people take the card too literally instead of discussing the idea behind it. Still I think your proposed card would make the new Ooze only useful in very particular cases.
I think the card below could work a little bit better because it's less restrictive and changes the way the opponent uses his weapons without outright destroying it.
(3) Scrap Blade (Weapon)
3/2
Gain +1 Durability whenever your opponents weapon loses 1 Durability.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
mad streets of gadgetzaan is terrible so far. i may not buy it at all.
BumperLips
Member
Looks like only if you really want to play either Priest or Mage or Aggro Pally.
Btw wow how have there been NO Shaman cards revealed yet.
Randomizer123454444
Member
From my point of view the expansion the expansion is looking a lot better than the last two, old gods and grand tournament. Grand tournament had very lacking core mechanics (inspire) and old gods decks were very gimmicky save for few classes where the C'Thun decks had lasting power.
This expansion seems to have a lot better quality cards and they seem less gimmicky too. Overall, not every card. I'm not convinced entirely by the "buff in hand" mechanic, but the kabal discovery/potion thing sounds a lot more fun than "inspire" or "if c'thun has more than X attack"/"give c'thun" -cards.
I also like how Blizz seems to be giving reno decks a push.
It isn't an adventure.
Not buying packs doesn't really make sense if you intend to keep playing hearthstone. Your gold is usually best spent on packs you have very few cards in.
C'mon man. You can't create a hypothetical card that bad and not expect people to call out the fact that it is bad. Even if it was just a concept.
Pretty sure i read this same sentiment, except it was a couple months ago and it was about Karazhan.
Someone has said it for every single expansion and adventure released so far.
Well someone says it about every expansion only for Karazhan it was actually true.
I think MSG has been a vast improvement thus far but it's not ground breaking in its mechanics and cards. A lot of safe, tried and true type cards.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
So far I'd rate the expansion above TGT and Karazhan for sure. Kazakus alone is far more interesting than anything in those sets.
I'm just a little worried about the overall power level being a little too low to change things when things desperately need changing. Nothing new is popping out as Teir 1 eligable at all right now.
I guess maybe Second Rate Bruiser is all that's needed to stop the Midrange Shaman plague, we'll see.
I'm just a little worried about the overall power level being a little too low to change things when things desperately need changing. Nothing new is popping out as Teir 1 eligable at all right now.
I guess maybe Second Rate Bruiser is all that's needed to stop the Midrange Shaman plague, we'll see.
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