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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

T

TankUP

Member
Cat Party said:
How are people questioning the warrior spell? It is good. Like Dirty Rat, it's going to fuck you sometimes, but it's still a good card. Punishes spell heavy decks and decks that vomit their hands out.
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Generally in games if you let your opponent get two Emperor ticks, you lose those games.

This card gives them two Emperor ticks and they don't even have to do anything to get them.

"But they'll over extend and you can brawl!"

Yeah, after they've filled their hand with spells from Lyra or Antonidas or they've Alexed you and frost bolted you in the same turn, or any number of things that brawl can't just sweep away.

And how good is brawl even going to be in a deathrattle meta?
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Cat Party said:
Warrior has loads of ways to clear the board or eliminate specific threats beyond Brawl. When I lose to aggro as quest warrior, it is always because I just can't survive long enough to stabilize and start dropping big taunts. 10 armor would be enough in most cases.
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Warrior board clear is very card inefficient if you are looking outside of Brawl. This is why stuff like Sleep with the Fishes is so weak early...you need to combo it with something else. If your hand is Whirlwind, Sleep, Bring it On, that's three dead cards that produce no tempo value. WW/Sleep really only have value because of their combo potential with stuff like Acolyte where you can break even. You might not even board wipe well against stuff like Midrange Paladin. Trying to stabilize a hand after playing something like Bring it On sounds like a nightmare.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
The card seems great against pirate warrior and good against most other decks as long as you don't play it on curve just like dirty rat.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
hexxer reminds me of Alley Armorsmith, but instead of gaining 2 armor per attack, it gives freeze effect to anything not a spell.

love the card.
 
H

Hybris

Member
Just noticed the shaman card... That's extremely good. Good against wide boards, good against big minions, good in combo with low damage aoe (maelstrom portal). Extremely strong anti aggro card. Weak to kodo and spell removal or vilespine.

Still not enough to make icebreaker usable yet, but another card or 2 this strong and it could be.
 
T

TankUP

Member
Love to see Shaman getting even more strong cards. I'll just sit here and hold my shitty 4/3 and my shitty unplayable spell and cry.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
TankUP said:
Generally in games if you let your opponent get two Emperor ticks, you lose those games.

This card gives them two Emperor ticks and they don't even have to do anything to get them.

"But they'll over extend and you can brawl!"

Yeah, after they've filled their hand with spells from Lyra or Antonidas or they've Alexed you and frost bolted you in the same turn, or any number of things that brawl can't just sweep away.

And how good is brawl even going to be in a deathrattle meta?
Click to expand...

Actually emperor in a control deck not hitting valuable cards was not very strong. Definitely not a loss. This was true for even reno warlock, a deck that is often mana starved but card heavy. Getting some cards out for reduced price barely helps your game plan. And the best cards to reduce in price are usually spells, like twisting nether, power overwhelming etc.. I'm not saying there are no minions that benefit from reduced cost, but this only impacts minions and not spells.

Also we haven't seen a single minion that summons a minion on death. So brawl so far looks good still. And brawl is just an example.

Look at this card in the context of mid-late game. Minion heavy zoo decks are going to be either low on resources or starved for them, and this is where the warrior simply needs to outlast, not out tempo. Spell heavy control decks, like control mage, barely benefit.

Funny you mention using it against combo decks. Of course you don't use this card before they've played their combo pieces. You'd think this is obvious in a set where dirty rat is. You can't play your cards haphazardly.

I think the card has a solid chance to see play. It crushes aggro even harder than forbidden healing does since it only costs 2 mana, not your entire turn. And it fits into the taunt warrior game plan where you have a ton of value off the quest.
 
C

Cat Party

Member
I seriously don't understand the complaints over Bring it On. Because it is so cheap, you can wait to play it until the time is right. All of us who play regularly can make educated guesses about what our opponents are holding, reducing the risks for punish.
 
O

Owzers

Member
Just had a terribly unfun two win arena, Paladins with three blessing of kings, another with two equality and two stegadons. Ugh, I remember why I hate this mode.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
Ditaloi said:
Hopefully they will reveal the release date and all cards after the stream ends. I'm so burned out of this meta. Need something fresh.
Click to expand...

I want to know the release date and with luck they might tell us, but we have weeks of reveals ahead, they take about 2-3 weeks for reveals, not all will be revealed on friday.
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
That shaman card looks pretty good. 2/7 taunt with effect is good enough for quest warrior, I think this will see play in a control shaman. Goodness knows Shaman has enough defensive cards to make that work.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Karsticles said:
It's important to remember that the armor card only reduces minion cost. It's irrelevant for things like Freeze Mage.
Click to expand...
yeah discounting alex, antonidas/medivh or valets and acolytes is irrelevant.

Freeze mage is so much easier when you can ice block and alex on the same turn but let's also not forget that control warrior vs freeze mage is historically already an incredibly favoured matchup for the warrior.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
yeah discounting alex, antonidas/medivh or valets and acolytes is irrelevant.

Freeze mage is so much easier when you can ice block and alex on the same turn but let's also not forget that control warrior vs freeze mage is historically already an incredibly favoured matchup for the warrior.
Click to expand...
Why would you play this before they've played Alex? lol

Evaluating cards is a lot easier when you assume you think while playing.

Blizzard said:
0.02% odds, huh? Perhaps we can start agreeing this qualifies as very unlikely. :p
Click to expand...

15 times in a row. Sigh.
 
C

Cat Party

Member
Hearthstone's RNG can definitely get messed up. I once summoned the same 5 drop from 3 Firelands Portals in the same game. There are 71 5 drops in standard. I'm no statistician, but that should not be possible.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Karsticles said:
Why would you play this before they've played Alex? lol

Evaluating cards is a lot easier when you assume you think while playing.
Click to expand...
okay so let's ignore alexstraza that still leaves a bunch of minions that range from devastating to just gamechanign if discounted. Even just hitting a Valet changes any calculations of max burst possible.

and that still ignores that it's an already favourable matchup.

edit:jinxed
 
T

TankUP

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Isn't this you every expansion warrior doesn't get blatantly OP control cards though? :p
Click to expand...

Pretty much, but can you blame me? Look at the warrior cards released since Old Gods. There are barely any decent ones, and a whole lot of unplayable trash.

The "interesting" cards Warrior gets are unplayable trash -- Explore, Genesis, Blood.

The spells Warrior gets are unplayable trash -- I know a Guy, Iron Hide, Protect the King.

The weapons Warrior gets are awful. Tentacles for Arms, Fool's Bane, Brass Knuckles, Molten Blade.

The legendary minions Warrior gets are awful. Hobart, Mosh.

The best Warrior cards over the past few years are a 2/7 taunt, a 3/6 taunt, a worse version of Revenge, and a boring, paint-by-numbers quest.

Right now Warrior has what are probably the two easiest to play, more boring decks in the entire meta. Pirate Warrior / Taunt Warrior. Taunt Warrior was what happened when Team 5 decided to PUSH warrior. Warrior isn't getting pushed this expansion, clearly. I had a little bit of hope when I saw the first Warrior reveal -- whirlwind is a very strong effect in Warrior and a weapon that guarantees two of 'em is probably good enough to see play. However, since then it's been back to the same old shitshow of bullshit cards most people will dust as soon as they pull 'em to make good cards for classes Team 5 actually enjoys designing for.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Fool's bane is not awful. It's seen play in some high end decks.

Mosh remains to be tested fully. It could easily been seen in a tempo warrior deck, especially with that new weapon that will easily enable mosh and gromm.

I think you're focused on cards from a single perspective of warrior, control warrior, which has been a thing far far more than it hasn't. The same discussion every expansion man. Could probably just look up post history and copy/paste and the discussion has barely changed.

And taunt warrior was tier 1 for several weeks, showing that control warrior is certainly not in terrible shape regardless of whether you like the deck.
 
T

TankUP

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Fool's bane is not awful. It's seen play in some high end decks.

Mosh remains to be tested fully. It could easily been seen in a tempo warrior deck, especially with that new weapon that will easily enable mosh and gromm.

I think you're focused on cards from a single perspective of warrior, control warrior, which has been a thing far far more than it hasn't. The same discussion every expansion man. Could probably just look up post history and copy/paste and the discussion has barely changed.

And taunt warrior was tier 1 for several weeks, showing that control warrior is certainly not in terrible shape regardless of whether you like the deck.
Click to expand...

If my posts are repetitive, it's because it's been the same story for every expansion since Old Gods. Warrior gets soooo many objectively bad cards.

Taunt Warrior is a midrange deck. It's a fine deck for people that like it, but I don't count myself among their number and I don't look at its success as any kind of success story for cwar..

As far as my point of view, I generally abstain from strong opinions on cards besides Warrior cards. Warrior is my most played class by far (almost 1400 warrior ranked wins and the next closest is barely 800 for Mage) and during spoiler season Warrior cards are the ones I'm most interested in seeing.and the ones I feel the most qualified to judge.

I don't want to be pessimistic but c'mon, look at these cards.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Karsticles said:
It's important to remember that the armor card only reduces minion cost. It's irrelevant for things like Freeze Mage.
Click to expand...

Freeze Mage can run Antonidas. Reducing his cost by 2 gives you more wiggle room to play more spells the turn you play him. So not entirely irrelevant. Plus Warrior is already generally favored against burn decks so it's not like you need this against Freeze mage anyway.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Very few classes get cards as bad as Warlock.

And that's because Blizzard plays it cautious due to the Warlock hero power.

Warrior has it good compared to Warlock. They actually have a usable Quest for one.
 
T

TankUP

Member
Dahbomb said:
Very few classes get cards as bad as Warlock.

And that's because Blizzard plays it cautious due to the Warlock hero power.

Warrior has it good compared to Warlock. They actually have a usable Quest for one.
Click to expand...

Getting better cards than Warlock does is cold comfort, but your point is taken.

Thinking more about the new spell... iron hide is 1 mana, gain 5 armor, and that's unplayable bad. Now they have 2 mana, gain 10, which seems decent, but for some reason they felt the need to add a downside to it so strong that in many cases it's going to lose you the game on the spot.
 
T

TankUP

Member
Dahbomb said:
Gain 10 armor can also win you the game on the spot. It's a high risk high reward card.
Click to expand...

It's a high risk, meh reward card. If a one time armorboost was all warrior needed, people would run Iron Hide and Ironforge Portal. But those cards are trash. So is this. Tar Creeper is better vs aggro than this card, and doesn't lose you the game vs a control deck.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
Yeah they're probably releasing more warrior cards that interact with your armor. i'm sure they're going to advocate control archetypes judging on what they have so far. i wouldn't count a gimmick card like that out at all yet.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
TankUP said:
If my posts are repetitive, it's because it's been the same story for every expansion since Old Gods. Warrior gets soooo many objectively bad cards.

Taunt Warrior is a midrange deck. It's a fine deck for people that like it, but I don't count myself among their number and I don't look at its success as any kind of success story for cwar..

As far as my point of view, I generally abstain from strong opinions on cards besides Warrior cards. Warrior is my most played class by far (almost 1400 warrior ranked wins and the next closest is barely 800 for Mage) and during spoiler season Warrior cards are the ones I'm most interested in seeing.and the ones I feel the most qualified to judge.

I don't want to be pessimistic but c'mon, look at these cards.
Click to expand...

Yeah, okay, a deck that doesn't really go off until turn 9 or later is a midrange deck.

Anyway, like I said, the issue with these warrior cards is not power level. They're actually playable cards. They're just not blatantly OP CW cards. Well, the 2 mana one would be pretty hot in CW. I don't even know why you're hating on it. It's a solid card that absolutely crushes aggro.

TankUP said:
It's a high risk, meh reward card. If a one time armorboost was all warrior needed, people would run Iron Hide and Ironforge Portal. But those cards are trash. So is this.
Click to expand...

Ironforge portal has seen play in warrior. It's not a bad card, just doesn't fit into current control/taunt warrior.

It's more like a forbidden healing power level card that also enables shield synergy.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
I played Control Warrior to Legend on Un'goro. Honestly I would evaluate the archetype as being in a better place than Taunt Warrior if you actually know how to play the game, Taunt is just easier so people tend to gravitate towards stuff where the potential for failure is lower. I am not expecting Control Warrior to get weaker with Frozen Throne. I think Blood Razor and Mountain Fire Armor are both playable.

Old Gods had Cultist, Ravaging Ghoul, First Mate, Blood to Ichor, Bloodhoof Brave, Malkorok, and Shieldbearer. Probably the best ratio of "good" cards and the class still struggled during the meta sometimes. The Un'goro set was pretty underwhelming outside of Hatchling but what can you do. Could say the same of many other classes, because Un'goro was defined more by the neutrals than anything else in my eyes.
 
T

TankUP

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Yeah, okay, a deck that doesn't really go off until turn 9 or later is a midrange deck.

Anyway, like I said, the issue with these warrior cards is not power level. They're actually playable cards. They're just not blatantly OP CW cards. Well, the 2 mana one would be pretty hot in CW. I don't even know why you're hating on it. It's a solid card that absolutely crushes aggro.
Click to expand...

As I said above, I'd rather have tar creeper vs aggro.

Taunt warrior is a midrange deck with late game inevitability. You play minions on curve until you ramp up to your win condition and then you press the button until you win or lose. It's got more in common with Jade Druid than it does with any true Control deck.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
TankUP said:
As I said above, I'd rather have tar creeper vs aggro.

Taunt warrior is a midrange deck with late game inevitability. You play minions on curve until you ramp up to your win condition and then you press the button until you win or lose. It's got more in common with Jade Druid than it does with any true Control deck.
Click to expand...


But Jade druid isn't a midrange deck either.
 
F

fertygo

Member
I think the warrior 4/3 need to be seen in practice before declared as bad

Ĺike.. its so few of deck in HS that want leave minion and challenge your board.. heck if its does


Does eating 2 of 3 hp mage minion is not an good out?
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
fertygo said:
I think the warrior 4/3 need to be seen in practice before declared as bad

Ĺike.. its so few of deck in HS that want leave minion and challenge your board.. heck if its does


Does eating 2 of 3 hp mage minion is not an good out?
Click to expand...
This is what I think. The card has tons of potential, and if N'zoth is getting played the card gets pretty nuts.
 
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