LyleLanley
Banned
I think it's just the constant use of "lost the plot" that confused me. At least when people said "courage" I could understand that they were attempting to make a joke.
"Hello Again" Apple holding mac-centric media event October 27th 10am PST
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I think it's just the constant use of "lost the plot" that confused me. At least when people said "courage" I could understand that they were attempting to make a joke.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Yeah that one baffles me too. It must be one of those thread-specific things, since I think one person said it and it just took off from there
Well, the mantle of Apple for a while was "It Just Works," and even as a big Apple fan still that's about as far from what they're doing nowadays as possible. They lost that "thread."
4 would be disappointing but still acceptable for my use case. The idea is that I plan to have it for a good long while; maybe not eight years like my MBP, but long enough. Who knows, in five years, 4K might be really prevalent and going with the high res screen might save me from upgrading it earlier.
I'm so used to being tethered to the wall that even getting 20 minutes of battery would be acceptable. Hell, I'd be happy if the power cord could come loose without the thing just shutting off. I've been moving a charger from room to room for years.
LyleLanley
Banned
There are some growing pains, mostly because the iPhone still uses lightning, but these laptops are designed to "Just work" USB-C allows you to plug anything into any port regardless of whether it's a monitor, a power source, headphones or any another device.
Here's my big problem.
I'm running a 2011 MacBook Pro with 16 GB RAM (unsupported), and 870 GB storage (unsupported 120 GB + 750 GB Fusion Drive.)
The new, unupgradable models leave me dead in the water. I can't get anywhere near that without breaking $3000. Getting close to $4000. That's totally unfeasible for me. I've got family, and don't make a spectacular amount.
I'd trade a few mm for the ability to expand my laptop.
I'd love a new MacBook Pro, but Apple is making it very difficult.
I'm running a 2011 MacBook Pro with 16 GB RAM (unsupported), and 870 GB storage (unsupported 120 GB + 750 GB Fusion Drive.)
The new, unupgradable models leave me dead in the water. I can't get anywhere near that without breaking $3000. Getting close to $4000. That's totally unfeasible for me. I've got family, and don't make a spectacular amount.
I'd trade a few mm for the ability to expand my laptop.
I'd love a new MacBook Pro, but Apple is making it very difficult.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I'm still dying at them selling a repackaged MBA for so much under the moniker of MBP.
I see what you did there.
I see what you did there.
exmachina64
Banned
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Apple is primarily designing products for the wealthy now.
JonathanNemo
Member
From the my thoughts and views are not representative of my employer or anybody whom I do business with dept,
The touch bar initially struck me as a gimmick, but in a way, I see how it plays into Apple's focus on security.
If I'm reading this right, this laptop's "power button" is on the touch bar. So too is the fingerprint reader/touch ID.
Playing into Tim Cook's focus on securing the company's devices, this touch bar seems like an angle to do just that with the MBP line, and perhaps other Macs to come.
It doesn't fit into what I want from my computer. But I can see how this weaves into a post-FBI attempting to unlock the iPhone world.
The touch bar initially struck me as a gimmick, but in a way, I see how it plays into Apple's focus on security.
If I'm reading this right, this laptop's "power button" is on the touch bar. So too is the fingerprint reader/touch ID.
Playing into Tim Cook's focus on securing the company's devices, this touch bar seems like an angle to do just that with the MBP line, and perhaps other Macs to come.
It doesn't fit into what I want from my computer. But I can see how this weaves into a post-FBI attempting to unlock the iPhone world.
LyleLanley
Banned
Now?
exmachina64
Banned
Worse than before, at least.
I didn't think the prices were that unreasonable in the mid-2000s, but the price increases are really outpacing income growth.
It's kind of strange to think that Apple is just finally designing for the wealthy, when that's been one side of the narrative for almost 2 decades now. But there is the other side that says they are future proof and well built with high resale value. There are people in the thread saying they are still using their MacBook from 2008.
People are holding onto their computers longer and longer, if someone were to upgrade every 4 years they could get the 15inch with upgraded graphics card and best CPU option for no more than a cup of coffee a day, grande size. Sure $3000 is a lot to put down at once, but it's not really something only for the wealthy.
exmachina64
Banned
Sure, it's just not how most people live.
Unibody Mac's are built amazingly. My rMBP after all these years still going strong and STILL has a great resale value if I want to sell it. At the time I paid top dollar for highest spec build and it's lasted me amazingly.
Only two disappointing things for me are no KabyLake (Intel's fault) and no NV option..which I hope next year they will solve or offer Vega mobile options. Also, 32GB Mem option too would be nice.
I'd love to know what NVMe drive they are using now I'm guessing custom Samsung 960 Pro.
Edit: Love the addition of DCI P3 Screen 4K Netflix will look sexy as fuck on these MacBooks.
Only two disappointing things for me are no KabyLake (Intel's fault) and no NV option..which I hope next year they will solve or offer Vega mobile options. Also, 32GB Mem option too would be nice.
I'd love to know what NVMe drive they are using now I'm guessing custom Samsung 960 Pro.
Edit: Love the addition of DCI P3 Screen 4K Netflix will look sexy as fuck on these MacBooks.
Rocky Raccoon
Banned
What MacBook do you have and what can you sell it for?
CharminUltra
Member
Damn, lol. 8/10 of the reviews/previews I've read for the new Macbooks were absolutely glowing. Then I come here and see all the negativity. Pretty jarring.
My Air still fucking rocks, so doubt I'll be upgrading anytime soon. The touch bar thing does look interesting, but not enough to make me pull the trigger now.
I think I'm just going to play the wait and see game for now. I'll give it a year to see if the touch bar gets a lot of support or not.
My Air still fucking rocks, so doubt I'll be upgrading anytime soon. The touch bar thing does look interesting, but not enough to make me pull the trigger now.
I think I'm just going to play the wait and see game for now. I'll give it a year to see if the touch bar gets a lot of support or not.
Journalists didn't have to pay the exorbitant price to use the things
They also don't care about power user specs like last gen processors or limited RAM configurations.
Over $1,600 AUD easy on local Gumtree though I'd never sell don't see the need to..even if when I get a top end rMBP next year I'll just give this to my Dad.
2012 15" Retina Macbook Pro, Highest end Quad Core CPU option during that time, 16GB Memory, 512GB SSD, NV 650m
Still have box and the thing is in perfect condition no marks or any of that stuff.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
they should be reviewing the hardware. Leave it up to us on whether or not we think it's worth the price. So far they've been more than glowing. Some people will like that and be ok with it and some will think it's too expensive for them.
No one is right and wrong. But if the final reviews are mostly glowing it's hard to deny apple did wrong. I guess sales will tell the story...though the industry is dying. They're treating it more like a niche it seems for those that want really high end hardware.
I'm warming up to the idea of the touch bar.
After learning about it yesterday, I've been watching myself use my current MacBook for work, and I've noticed two things that for me, might make the touchbar actually useful.
1. I often seem to open files just to look at them without making changes, only for them to throw up a save/don't save/cancel window. I never want to save, but there's no keyboard shortcut for don't save, so I have to take my hands off the keyboard and manually click the button. If those three options were on the touch bar, it would be much nicer.
2. I edit a lot of scientific documents with special characters, and I always have to either use the character viewer or copy/paste from another document to get the characters I want. If I could put those characters on the touchbar, life would be that little bit better.
It remains to be seen whether the uses I described will be possible or allowed by Apple, though. I wonder what the potential for third party hacks and customization of the touchbar will be.
After learning about it yesterday, I've been watching myself use my current MacBook for work, and I've noticed two things that for me, might make the touchbar actually useful.
1. I often seem to open files just to look at them without making changes, only for them to throw up a save/don't save/cancel window. I never want to save, but there's no keyboard shortcut for don't save, so I have to take my hands off the keyboard and manually click the button. If those three options were on the touch bar, it would be much nicer.
2. I edit a lot of scientific documents with special characters, and I always have to either use the character viewer or copy/paste from another document to get the characters I want. If I could put those characters on the touchbar, life would be that little bit better.
It remains to be seen whether the uses I described will be possible or allowed by Apple, though. I wonder what the potential for third party hacks and customization of the touchbar will be.
SentientStone
Member
Really conflicted with the new release, I was 99% percent sure I would get one before the announcement. Guess the backlash of the announcement on the Internet got to me haha.
Now I am thinking of going for the 2015 model perhaps... something I did not even consider before. Had they not raised the prices I would've got the 2016 models.
I just need a laptop to write my papers and do some image editing sometimes, am in China right now. I can go to Hong Kong to get a refurbished 13.3" 2015 rMBP but considering the time and hassle of traveling there to save $200 Canadian dollars I'm not sure I want to do it. I can also just get it in the Mainland for $200 Canadian more.
Decisions, decision...
Now I am thinking of going for the 2015 model perhaps... something I did not even consider before. Had they not raised the prices I would've got the 2016 models.
I just need a laptop to write my papers and do some image editing sometimes, am in China right now. I can go to Hong Kong to get a refurbished 13.3" 2015 rMBP but considering the time and hassle of traveling there to save $200 Canadian dollars I'm not sure I want to do it. I can also just get it in the Mainland for $200 Canadian more.
Decisions, decision...
CharminUltra
Member
These new Macs are for sure pricey enough for me to skip them this time around, but the articles I read absolutely took price into consideration (not to mention competing products) and still found them worthy. Your complaint that reviewers didn't have to pay for them sounds pretty silly.
Anyway, Apple is just gonna have to wait a year or two for my monies. The touch bar just doesn't look like something that will enhance my current workflow. Not yet at least.
I was planning on getting a 15" before the announcement but it seems that USB-C only has the side-effect of only supporting DisplayPort 1.2. I'm not spending thousands for a notebook that won't work with upcoming hi-DPI/HDR displays. Especially when then the GPU has the support but it's just Apple's bullshit not including a legacy displayport/thunderbolt 2 port that's preventing it.
Hopefully there will be a spring revision that's not so boneheaded. I'll keep my 13" MBP for now.
Hopefully there will be a spring revision that's not so boneheaded. I'll keep my 13" MBP for now.
eyeball_kid
Member
Hell, people have been complaining about Mac prices since the first Macintosh. I think some people don't have a long history with the brand – Macs always fluctuate in price as they adopt new technologies and then those costs come down.
I don't think people understand how expensive the top-end Macs used to be. Part of this was PowerPC vs Intel, as well as U.S. labor vs Chinese. For instance the Mac Quadra 900, released in 1991, started at $15k adjusted for inflation. But even when we get to the first MacBook Pro in 2006 (Intel chip and Chinese built), the 15" started at almost $3000 adjusted for inflation. Not really much different than today's MBP.
I mean this round is especially painful, no argument here, and the adapter situation makes it harder to swallow, but it's not way outside the norm for Apple's pro line. For professional uses, it pays for itself fairly quickly. I do feel bad for the Brits who got that Brexit pricing though.
p.s. fun fact: The most expensive Mac ever was the IIfx, which in 1990 started at $9,900. That's $18,287 adjusted for inflation!! It was a beast though.
Depends on the app you're using. I've looked at the API docs briefly and they seem to give app developers quite a bit of freedom and power to do interesting stuff. So if you have an app you use to view those docs, contact the developer and let them know. If it's an Apple app you're using, well I don't know, but there does seem to be some customization available.
I'm sure it's a nice machine, but those journalists aren't really in the same profession as some of the people here critiquing it. I might still end up grabbing on, but I'm disappointed for reasons those journalists possibly can't fathom because I use it in a different way from them. That and none of them have actually used it more than a few minutes to demo.
Everyone's been saying the touch bar makes sense less for professionals and more for casual sort of uses and I can see journalists really being that key group of people.
eyeball_kid
Member
I think people saying that either have little imagination or an axe to grind. I think it will be absolutely useful for pro apps, and will probably make tasks more efficient.
All I know is, I'm pretty excited to see what I can do with the touch bar in Logic Pro X.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Every year I'm like "that could use a little better GPU"
So this being par for the course, I just ponied up for the RX 460 and will live with it for the foreseeable future and hope for a reliable eGPU in the coming years
jts
...hate me...
If the MacBook Pro 13" w/ Touch Bar were to have 2 fast TB3 ports and 2 slower ones, it would have been a smarter design to put one of the fast on each side and one slower on each side too.
Sometimes you'll want that fast I/O peripheral (like a Drobo) on the left, sometimes you'll want it on the right. 2 fast devices on the same side? Less likely I reckon.
Interesting (small) advantage of the cheaper 13", although negated by the fact that then you'll be forced to charge it from the other side.
Sometimes you'll want that fast I/O peripheral (like a Drobo) on the left, sometimes you'll want it on the right. 2 fast devices on the same side? Less likely I reckon.
Interesting (small) advantage of the cheaper 13", although negated by the fact that then you'll be forced to charge it from the other side.
opticalmace
Member
jts
...hate me...
Ahhhh I see now, sorry. Makes way more sense, from a cost and efficient design perspective. Too bad for those who get it though.
Somehow got this automatic image on my mind that the cheaper has 1 port on each side as soon as I heard it only has 2 ports. Should've known better.
Been so happy since I upgraded from the first gen unibody MBP to the MBPr and got one USB on each side.
electrotonus
Neo Member
Device is beautiful, prices are ugly. Bought a MacBook Pro 15" in 2010 and 2013, paid for both something in the range of 1500 to 1700 Euro. The modern equivalent costs 2700 euro. Ugh.
m_shortpants
Member
My GF bought me a 2015 rMBP 13 for our anniversary/my birthday not too long ago and l was worried I'd want the latest and greatest once they announced these. However, I like the keyboard, SD card slot, and ports on mine. Suits my needs just fine for importing photos from my camera and loading them onto my external hdd and everything else I do on the go.
People just want to bitch to bitch.
Kabylake does nothing better than Skylake with the one exception being better encode/decode of 4k video codecs.
Zeyphersan
Banned
You know what's truly going to be confusing? That this USB-C stuff isn't truly standardized. Browsing Apple's site, they have a C-C Charge Cable that supports up to 100W, but only USB2 data transfer speeds. You can grab one that does USB3.1 transfer speeds, but it only charges up to 60W. There shouldn't be trade-offs like that in a standard, especially when you have to dig into the specs to find this stuff out
jts
...hate me...
Seems like it reallocates wires inside to transport power instead of data, at the expense of USB 3.1. I mean you're right, but I guess that the solution would have been to hard limit power to 60w - likely this trade-off is allowed because USB 2.0 is sufficient for some classes of peripherals, and a dedicated 100w USB-C is going to be used mainly for charging.
With proper labeling, I don't mind it. Don't think I'd need a 100w cable though.
eyeball_kid
Member
I guess that's the downside of such a flexible standard. Reading that support document, I did notice that the MBP will always use the highest-wattage connection for charging, so at least we don't have to worry about plugging things in a certain port or order.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I know that's why, but I can see it being frustrating when I get a bunch of USB-C cables and externally they're all the same but internally they vary wildly. Also the 15 inch uses 85W to charge at the proper speed so you would need the 100W cable to get the most out of it. Thunderbolt 3 monitors and converters cap at 60W of power, so if you buy that fancy $1300 5K LG monitor and hook your 15" into it it'll charge slower than normal
That's true, but it does complicate the "one cable solution" if you have a 15"
eyeball_kid
Member
Wait, really? Because on Apple's site it says:
"A single Thunderbolt 3 cable (included) supports 5K video, stereo speakers, a camera for video conferencing, three USB-C ports, and up to 85W of charging power. It’s the perfect match for MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports."
Speaking of that monitor, I have no idea why it has three USB-C ports. Give us some actual ports we might use, at least throw us a bone with one or two USB 2.0 ports.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I feel the same about my MBP I bought a couple of months ago.
formasymphonic
Member
According to Wikipedia, the pursuit of thinness took the batteries down from
2015
13" MBP - 74.9 Wh
15" MBP - 99.5 Wh
To 2016
13" MBA+ - 54.5 Wh
13" MBP - 49.2 Wh
15" MBP - 76 Wh
2015
13" MBP - 74.9 Wh
15" MBP - 99.5 Wh
To 2016
13" MBA+ - 54.5 Wh
13" MBP - 49.2 Wh
15" MBP - 76 Wh
eyeball_kid
Member
I believe battery life is still rated the same. I know the new display for instance is something like 30% more power efficient. They probably made up the battery reduction in other areas, assuming that chart is correct.
The making it thinner for the sake of making it thinner is the one thing that pisses me off the most.
jts
...hate me...
Yeah but imagine a world where Apple keeps making battery-efficiency progress but actually keeps the battery size.
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