Absolutely. When the time is right.
Every tech company in Silicon Valley has wanted to execute this strategy since forever. Making everything in-house as much as possible.
That way R&D department doesn't get slashed and gutted.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"Hello Again" Apple holding mac-centric media event October 27th 10am PST
- Thread starter Dany
- Start date
- Status
Absolutely. When the time is right.
Every tech company in Silicon Valley has wanted to execute this strategy since forever. Making everything in-house as much as possible.
That way R&D department doesn't get slashed and gutted.
Darryl M R
Member
Thanks I appreciate it!
Doesn't affect many, but FYI there were across the board price drops for Macs in Japan due to a steadily stronger Yen.
It makes everything for once not seem ridiculously priced, while it's just making things on par with America.
Either way, I'm buying something in Jan/Feb.
MacBook
MacBook Pro (no touch bar)
MacBook Pro (touch bar)
MacBook Pro 2015
It makes me sad that I feel the MacBook Pro 2015 is the most rational purchase. I want Space Grey.
It makes everything for once not seem ridiculously priced, while it's just making things on par with America.
Either way, I'm buying something in Jan/Feb.
MacBook
MacBook Pro (no touch bar)
MacBook Pro (touch bar)
MacBook Pro 2015
It makes me sad that I feel the MacBook Pro 2015 is the most rational purchase. I want Space Grey.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I've had Apple computers for a long time, and on the laptop side, have exclusively stayed with OSX since the very first Core Duo Intel MacBook.
For the longest time, Apple was consistently ahead of every one in the space. And with the 15" Retina MBP, they changed the landscape forever. I mean, every single premium laptop now has a 1440p or higher display. Every one has a unibody. A great trackpad. Amazing build quality.
And with that, I ADORE/D my current 2013 rMBP. It's held its own and is still a fantastic device. But the truth is, the competition is caught up. I look at the newest 15" model from Apple, and I really don't see ANYTHING on it that will afford me new capability absent from my over 3 year old device. If anything, outside of a marginal speed bump and SSD speed - if you don't care for the Touch Bar - in many ways I'd be working backwards.
I'm heavily leaning toward selling my RMBP and my desktop, and going with:
12" Retina MacBook for travel/work/battery life/portability. 90% of the time, this can handle everything I need when I'm traveling.
And then a 17" Razer Blade Pro. With a 4K G-Sync Display, mechanical keyboard, SD slot, PCIe RAID0 SSD, 1080 GPU, etc... I can edit my photo library in lightroom and play video games on the road - LAN parties, etc - and it can pretty much replace and improve on my current desktop.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It's cause everything else looks cheap and tacky
I would be down for a Surface Display
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I wish they would just put a quad core processor in the 13" models. At least the higher end one. And not as an option that costs $400 more. Or at least make the RAM baseline for the 15" 16GB. And 512GB SSD on the 15".
Make Pro actually mean Pro.
Make Pro actually mean Pro.
formasymphonic
Member
His response is painful because it could have easily be resolved by not pursing technological anorexia at all costs. They could have redesigned and slimmed down all the components as they did and used the new found space for larger batteries. Not a single person would have complained and it would have provided much more of a benefit than volume and weight savings.
God, I can't stand that W10 does this. And I don't want to delay it in settings, I want to be able to stop my computer from shutting itself down without my consent.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
As I'm currently running a 2010 MacBook that's somehow still going strong, I was waiting for any decent reason to upgrade, and I was willing to spend about $2500 on a 15" MBP with a decent discrete GPU. (I don't game often, but Civ VI might be nice.)
This ain't it.
I don't personally particularly care about the dongle situation, since the next iPhone's going to charge wirelessly and I don't really have anything other than some USB 2.0 SD card adapters. It's kind of insulting that they don't throw a USB 2.0 -> USB-C adapter in the box. The same with building some MagSafe like attachment into the power cord too, although I realize there are OEM attachments.
The Touch Bar's interesting, but I'll wait to see how and if developers actually use it. While I type without ever looking at the keyboard, one exception is the function keys (I've hit mute instead of volume down countless times), so I don't mind that complaint. And the larger trackpad looks great, provided the palm rest technology's still top notch.
But, at this point, I don't see a reason not to hold out longer to see if there's a Kaby Lake + NVidia solution coming in Q1/Q2 of 2017.
I'm not underwhelmed, but I wasn't blown away. I really wanted Apple to convince me, because I've used all iterations of Windows and even spent 5 years on Gentoo Linux of all things, and I prefer OS X by a wide margin. Damn it, Apple. I was so easy to convince too.
This ain't it.
I don't personally particularly care about the dongle situation, since the next iPhone's going to charge wirelessly and I don't really have anything other than some USB 2.0 SD card adapters. It's kind of insulting that they don't throw a USB 2.0 -> USB-C adapter in the box. The same with building some MagSafe like attachment into the power cord too, although I realize there are OEM attachments.
The Touch Bar's interesting, but I'll wait to see how and if developers actually use it. While I type without ever looking at the keyboard, one exception is the function keys (I've hit mute instead of volume down countless times), so I don't mind that complaint. And the larger trackpad looks great, provided the palm rest technology's still top notch.
But, at this point, I don't see a reason not to hold out longer to see if there's a Kaby Lake + NVidia solution coming in Q1/Q2 of 2017.
I'm not underwhelmed, but I wasn't blown away. I really wanted Apple to convince me, because I've used all iterations of Windows and even spent 5 years on Gentoo Linux of all things, and I prefer OS X by a wide margin. Damn it, Apple. I was so easy to convince too.
I don't really think it will be a problem, it seems like they started planning for this possible exodus years ago, probably when they first saw signs of trouble from Intel. They have this covered likely on all fronts, from designing the CPU, to investing heavily in a new software LLVM, which is incredibly portable as software is no longer complied into real machine code, to the App Store, which takes the LLVM Intermediate Representation and on the fly delivers the correct binary to the computer downloading the software.
Will there be some hiccoughs for people, sure, but Apple can probably switch at any time and most people will not notice.
These new machines look good, but I'm not in the market for a new laptop, if they do release a touch bar enabled keyboard for my iMac, I might be tempted to get it.
In addition to what you have mentioned, I'm looking at the Blade Stealth, the HP Spectre 13 (which has Kaby Lake processors) and 15 (which does not, but has a 4k screen), and possibly the Lenovo Yoga 910 (which has both Kaby Lake and 4k, but looks weird with a big lower bezel). Here's my current thought process:
- I want Kaby Lake, as I believe 4K will become more common in the next four years, and after seeing my '08 MBP now struggle with 1080p, I'd like to build with the future in mind. Kaby Lake really cuts down on 4K HEVC CPU/GPU usage, leading to much better battery life and smoother playback.
- QHD or 4K screens may not be needed in a 13" form factor, but I'd probably want one on a 15" laptop
- It must have at least 16GB of RAM, or it must be user replaceable. I no longer have anything running just 8GB (beyond the old MBP, of course), and I feel like 16GB is non-negotiable at these price points.
- Because I have a big custom NAS/server (currently 18TB), I don't need a lot of SSD space. I'd rather have fast storage than a lot of it, so as long as the laptop has solid Wifi performance, SSD size only factors in as far as speed is concerned, since larger ones tend to be faster.
- Touch is not important to me. I don't mind if it is there, and the idea of folding my laptop into "tent" mode to watch movies seems neat, but it's not required as I was planning on getting a MBP which couldn't do these things anyway.
- Battery life is important but not the be all and end all. A byproduct of going so long using a laptop without one, I guess. As long as the system makes 5 hrs or better when watching movies, I can live with it.
- A dGPU is not required. I don't intend to do much gaming on this thing (as I wouldn't expect to with the MBP), and whatever I do want to play can be beamed in via Steam Home Streaming.
LLVM IR is not portable between different architecture families (ie arm and x86), and app store submissions take bitcode, not IR, which is somewhat less portable still. They have you include it so they can more easily patch (for security) and re-optimize your program after submission.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
The only thing that bothers me about the price at this point are the SSD prices. While I understand that they're some of the fastest consumer NVMe drives out there, 1TB should be standard in the high end.
They're making products to sell their services. If the product doesn't sell their services, they might decide to not make it anymore.
They're making products to sell their services. If the product doesn't sell their services, they might decide to not make it anymore.
eyeball_kid
Member
Some thoughts about your criteria with regards to the new MBPs...
1), if you get a dGPU with the new MBP then this is a non-issue, as the Radeons can handle 10-bit 4k HEVC.
4) the SSDs on the new MBP are supposedly really really fast, but no one has done independent tests yet to prove that out
7) The Radeon 460 is not a top-end card, but it's no slouch either, having about the power of a PS4. Playing current-gen games on medium settings shouldn't be an issue. I know this isn't a big concern for you, but for me it's nice to know I can still continue gaming on a Mac.
Ah, sorry I got some things mixed up. Thanks for better explaining. So they can't use the uploaded bitcode to target a new architecture?
That's my main gripe about the new MBPs. They're making some sweet profit off those storage upgrades.
It was bad enough they were soldering the RAM to the motherboard, but now you can't even upgrade the storage when you inevitably need more later.
jimmypython
Member
The touch bar is for the pro users yet they showcase it with the most causal application that is emoji. Lol
Ran Geekbench 4 on my new non-touchbar 13" MBP (3801/7289): https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/882294
User experience wise, really satisfied with the experience so far (it's been 2.5 hours since first boot). Speakers are lit and I can see myself getting used to this new keyboard. There's definitely more (albeit slight) key travel on this version than the 12" MacBook. Ordered a Nonda usb-A to usb-c adapter off amazon for $10. I'm coming from a Hackintosh I built in 2012 so I'm hoping to overall downsize my setup. I know most people are going the opposite direction, but I'm hoping to go simple after all the troubleshooting I've had to do to keep my Hackintosh fully functioning.
User experience wise, really satisfied with the experience so far (it's been 2.5 hours since first boot). Speakers are lit and I can see myself getting used to this new keyboard. There's definitely more (albeit slight) key travel on this version than the 12" MacBook. Ordered a Nonda usb-A to usb-c adapter off amazon for $10. I'm coming from a Hackintosh I built in 2012 so I'm hoping to overall downsize my setup. I know most people are going the opposite direction, but I'm hoping to go simple after all the troubleshooting I've had to do to keep my Hackintosh fully functioning.
Adobe did a pretty long Photoshop demo on stage. People latch onto the emoji thing in order to tear it down.
You are correct, but (and this is my fault as I didn't put it in my original post) I'm not willing to pay $2400 to get the only Macbook Pro with a dGPU. The lack of DDR4 also bothers me, not necessarily because there would be a major performance increase, but just because I expect $2400 to buy you the best parts on offer, and I can't see any benefit to going with DDR3.
All your other points I agree with. Apple has had blazing SSDs and the 460 is perfectly serviceable for light gaming loads, but they've priced me out of the latter and the former can be approximated (if not matched) by competitors to the point that it's not enough of a plus to win me over.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Is that confirmed for the Touch Bar models? The non-Touch Bar are upgradable.
Huh? No they aren't.
They did a bunch of different demos, it could have a lot of different uses, people are too quick to try and tear down Apple.
I figure the typing part such as emoji most are going to mock, but the word prediction looks like it would be really nice, at least for me. I often have to type in Japanese, so being able to quickly tap the correct character I want to use rather than tab or scroll through a giant list looks really handy actually.
Both EmiPrime and I must have really bad timing. There have been several times when I was about to pull out my hair waiting for Windows to update wondering if it will be finished by the time I have to do a Skype Meeting. It's probably my fault because I rarely boot into Windows, but on the occasions I do I always wonder if I'm going to have to wait for it to update.
I don't find it very intrusive really. There is maybe one update a month that might require a reboot, and by default it should do the install and reboot at a time you don't use the PC (something like 4 AM for me).
I typically don't even notice it's been updated.
Crazymoogle
Member
It was just revealed today that the SSD is removable in the non touch model. It's not easily upgradeable in that I think need to crack open the case to do it, but in theory you can upgrade to a different SSD if you chose.
OWC Details
They are not soldered on.
OWC did tear down.
http://blog.macsales.com/38440-ssd-in-late-2016-entry-level-macbook-pro-removable
They'll have upgradable SSD's that fit the socket down the line like they have for past MacBooks.
At least 512GB. 256GB on a Pro is the new 16GB on an iPhone. Ridiculous.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
OK. So to answer my own question, the top-end 15" MBP likely has either the i7-6820HQ or i7-6820HK processor:
http://ark.intel.com/compare/88970,88969
The only difference between the two are some Enterprise/Security hardware features. Prices are the same. The Security functionality maaaaay be something Apple is interested in, but with the T1 chip covering a lot of that functionality, I wouldn't bet on it.
Either way, good chip, but the 530 integrated GPU is disappointing, especially since the 6870HQ with a 580 Iris Pro GPU is less than $100 more.
http://ark.intel.com/compare/88970,88969
The only difference between the two are some Enterprise/Security hardware features. Prices are the same. The Security functionality maaaaay be something Apple is interested in, but with the T1 chip covering a lot of that functionality, I wouldn't bet on it.
Either way, good chip, but the 530 integrated GPU is disappointing, especially since the 6870HQ with a 580 Iris Pro GPU is less than $100 more.
1 A lot of people complaining about how more expensive these are just don't realise there is a lot of technology packed into the Touch Bar. It is essentially a full on Apple Watch. The new T1 chip inside the touch bar is an enhanced version of the S1 chip from the Apple Watch and it is running an embedded version of watchOS. The T1 chip allows for enhanced security for Apple Pay, Touch Bar, TouchID, and the Camera.
2 The OLED Touch Bar has a Retina resolution and a wide colour gamut. It can display more colours than most people's TVs and monitors.
3 the new P3 colour display. Displays with these properties of that quality costs quite a bit more than what Apple used in retina MacBook Pros before.
4 SSD. Don't think of it as your run of the mill 2.5" SATA SSD that dropped in price so nicely. Apple went high-end on the new notebooks and those 3 GB/s modules are expensive.
5 R&D costs
2 The OLED Touch Bar has a Retina resolution and a wide colour gamut. It can display more colours than most people's TVs and monitors.
3 the new P3 colour display. Displays with these properties of that quality costs quite a bit more than what Apple used in retina MacBook Pros before.
4 SSD. Don't think of it as your run of the mill 2.5" SATA SSD that dropped in price so nicely. Apple went high-end on the new notebooks and those 3 GB/s modules are expensive.
5 R&D costs
Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth
I guess not all ports are created equal...
I guess not all ports are created equal...
that sucks
Rocky Raccoon
Banned
What about the MacBook Pro without Touch Bar? How are its Thunderbolt 3 ports bandwidth?
LyleLanley
Banned
The cheaper 13" only has two ports.
LyleLanley
Banned
Oh yeah, that explains that.
Angelus Errare
Banned
They won't, 2015 model barely has SSD replacements because the pins are typical Apple BS. The only place that sells replacements are OWC themselves and they're hella expensive compared to standard M2 drives.
Rocky Raccoon
Banned
Why not get this year'a MacBook Pro without TouchBar? It has a lot more performance, 1 extra thunderbolt port, better keyboard, better everything else. It weighs a pound more however.
I'm waiting to see the Surface Pro 5. Supposedly it'll be revealed in the Spring.
Good call. My MacBook is still in good shape so I'll await that announcement as well.
LyleLanley
Banned
I'm still not entirely sure why people keep saying Apple "lost the plot/thread" with these new laptops. Apple made a thinner, more powerful, more expensive laptop that replaced legacy ports with a more future-proof all-in-one port, isn't that exactly what Apple has always done? The only obvious misstep in my mind is keeping lightning on their phones instead of USB-C.
cuz it's Apple and Apple gonna Apple breh
Both 13" versions have 2 full speed thunderbolt 3 ports. The 13" touch version has two additional lower bandwidth ports. As others have mentioned on other forums, this is due to the limited number of PCI-E lanes on the processors used the 13" versions. The 13" versions use dual core chips that have only 12 PCI-E lanes compared to the 15" version that uses quad core chips with 16 PCI-E lanes. A full speed port needs 4 lanes each. I don't know what the reduced bandwidth is though. Perhaps it's just reduced to Thunderbolt 2 or USB 3.1 Gen2 speeds which is still damn fast.
Earthanoid
Member
I have a Dell Inspiron 15" with a 4k screen. The screen demolishes the battery even at low brightness. The advertised battery life is 6 hours but its really more like 4 hours. It looks great but 4k isn't really needed.
Rocky Raccoon
Banned
It's also their lightest MacBook Pro package ever!
Zeyphersan
Banned
You know how these threads go by now. This isn't our first rodeo
- Status