semiconscious
Member
professional management class: 'saying less by saying more'...
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Hermen Hulst: PlayStation is “Reevaluating how we operate” in light of the recent layoffs
Interfectum
Member
MS tried this, Epic tried this, EA tried this, Blizzard tried this, etc they all failed. You can't just "emulate" Steam's essential features because they are the defecto place to be if you really care about games at all. They have the features, they have the plethora of games, they have the community (who writes reviews, populates the forums, writes guides) and the consumers have 100s of games built up over the course of a decade.
I agree that it's not in Sony's long term interest to feed the beast that is Steam but honestly they have no choice if they want to find any success on the platform. Just as MS now has no choice but to put games on Switch and PS5 if they want console owners to play their games.
Lucifers Beard
Member
Might be a good idea to have some studios making smaller scale AA games. Helldivers 2 seems like a success story and there's nothing stopping them funding single player experiences of a similar budget.
Not every fucking game has to be a huge cinematic story driven adventure game that costs hundreds of millions to make.
Not every fucking game has to be a huge cinematic story driven adventure game that costs hundreds of millions to make.
Fabieter
Member
Well certainty blizzard didnt fail with their store. Wtf why are you lying. All i said is if they do it well it will be worth it. Only fanboys would argue otherwise.
saintjules
Member
Edit: moved comment to the other thread.
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intheinbetween
Member
That wording of PS fans, interesting
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Not sure what lessons you guys think Sony are supposed to learn.
Obvious, biggest thing is that it looks very much like MS are folding their tent in the console war. At the least they've conceded defeat this gen and the extent of the cross platform push will be easy to judge based on how many MGS studios are putting in requests for PS5 devkits. So they can adapt their plans accordingly.
A side effect of this is no doubt they'll be taking a long hard look at publishing on Xbox, when its more likely to actually be cloud/Game Pass down the line. I'd imagine projects at say, Bungie that are a ways out might end up PS/PC only.
Then of course there's Helldivers 2 proving the value of investing into GaaS. The stated reason for cancelling Factions 2 was the sheer amount of resources (and expense) it would cost going forwards, not a fundamental disbelief in the viability of service games
And making PSVR2 PC-compatible is another thing. It'll certainly be another front to publish on.
Projects getting nowhere and getting cancelled is normal, so I wouldn't read too much into it unless it becomes chronic at which point closure of the offending studio is the likely outcome. But again, that's always been how it works.
The only change in that regard being that with Jim Ryan gone the consistently underperforming UK studios won't be protected anymore, and that's a good thing. Although it remains to be seen if they'll finally manage to get rid of the worthless deadwood in the management structure that's always been the root of the dysfunction...
EDIT: Wrote this before seeing the posts about the closure of London Studio. Right again LOL.
Obvious, biggest thing is that it looks very much like MS are folding their tent in the console war. At the least they've conceded defeat this gen and the extent of the cross platform push will be easy to judge based on how many MGS studios are putting in requests for PS5 devkits. So they can adapt their plans accordingly.
A side effect of this is no doubt they'll be taking a long hard look at publishing on Xbox, when its more likely to actually be cloud/Game Pass down the line. I'd imagine projects at say, Bungie that are a ways out might end up PS/PC only.
Then of course there's Helldivers 2 proving the value of investing into GaaS. The stated reason for cancelling Factions 2 was the sheer amount of resources (and expense) it would cost going forwards, not a fundamental disbelief in the viability of service games
And making PSVR2 PC-compatible is another thing. It'll certainly be another front to publish on.
Projects getting nowhere and getting cancelled is normal, so I wouldn't read too much into it unless it becomes chronic at which point closure of the offending studio is the likely outcome. But again, that's always been how it works.
The only change in that regard being that with Jim Ryan gone the consistently underperforming UK studios won't be protected anymore, and that's a good thing. Although it remains to be seen if they'll finally manage to get rid of the worthless deadwood in the management structure that's always been the root of the dysfunction...
EDIT: Wrote this before seeing the posts about the closure of London Studio. Right again LOL.
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blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
900 people didn't want to crunch.
kazuyamishima
Member
But, what Sony games cost $500m??
FF:Enhanced_Reality
Member
They use a system called standard deviation. So they time every phone, email and chat transaction. Offline task or timed executable. They remove the outliers, so if a call that normally takes 10 minutes shows up as taking more than an hour, for example if you're escalating a complaint, then it gets removed from your performance. Provided you let a TL know and they check it's a genuine long transaction.
However, once they're removed, they find the average of all interactions of that type for the whole service area and the average of all your own interactions and you're marked within 3 steps of deviation from plus to minus. If it's minus, then you're really really fast. If it's plus, you're taking too long.
Since COVID finished we've noticed the average of all tasks has gone up significantly. For example a simple blue badge enquiry has gone from 3 minutes to about 7. All staff are fully trained, consolidated and they keep doing refreshers to make sure that you are more than competent. They grade you from 4 - 6 depending on your service level in our role and nearly everyone is on 6. Most staff members are above 1.5 positive on their interactions. We've all been given monitors, laptops with £800, keyboards, mice etc. so the equipment is fine. The internal network always asks us to do speed tests to identify who has slower connections but even then, were not doing anything that heavy that the work load or slow connection would slow it down. The processes and tools haven't changed. We didn't stop working throughout lock down.
There is so explanation as to why people are being so slow and folk aren't offering up and excusable reasons. They're taking too long on calls by having personal chats and not doing their job. They're taking their time on emails and chats because they're isn't a TL on duty around and Real Time can't watch 2500 employees at once when there's only 7 of them. The honest truth is that people are taking the piss. They are taking the piss and being caught out by posting on Facebook during work when not on break or lunch. They're on gaming services such as Xbox live etc. They're afk when they have no reason to be. They're staying in wrap for nearly twice as long to send and check messages on their phones.
Sorry if you don't like it, but it's true. Productivity is way down.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
they got crunched anyway.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Find out how Insomniac delivers new AAA games almost yearly. You could have also asked Evolution Studios if you didn’t fuck them up.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
this is interesting. i wonder if the "dumb scrolling" is destroying concentration at work as well.
is this a problem of digital addiction? sometimes I feel that way.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Record sales of hardware and software, at a time when their closest competitor has essentially shit the bed and is throwing in the towel, and it's NOW these clowns think they need to reevaluate their approach to making games?!?
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" ---- has never been a truer statement.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" ---- has never been a truer statement.
Hero of Spielberg
Gold Member
I think the problem is that it is broke, that’s why they need to fix it.
BobLeeSwagger
Banned
The industry, as a whole, needs to find ways to reduce development time.
No one wants to keep throwing several millions into gaming projects that won’t come out for at least half a decade because there is no ROI until the game comes out. If a game gets delayed it’s even worse, because you can either scrap it at that point or throw some more money in to put in for the extra time and there’s the added risk that there’s barely ROI if games bomb on release.
No one wants to keep throwing several millions into gaming projects that won’t come out for at least half a decade because there is no ROI until the game comes out. If a game gets delayed it’s even worse, because you can either scrap it at that point or throw some more money in to put in for the extra time and there’s the added risk that there’s barely ROI if games bomb on release.
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1726376545){kind=avatar}
ZiggyPop1991
Member
All company crap aside. Us gamers are really some whiny spoiled people lol. One side you have wanting more game pass like options. Day and date, simultaneous pc launch, etc. With how long and technical heavy these new games are. We then complain about the time it takes to make them. How they look instead of the quality of life and bells and whistles making them run smoother. Then we complain about crunch and what not. I honestly don’t understand where the industry is going. Everyone wants so much but it clears money isn’t being made and that’s what they’re in it for in the end.
Then you look at Nintendo who even if you don’t like them are killing it in the software and hardware sales department. Helldivers 2 is literally killing it. A AA title that kept what matters at the forefront. Fun. These studios truly need to get back to that and not these technical showcases that no one cares about offline and off these forums, lol.
Then you look at Nintendo who even if you don’t like them are killing it in the software and hardware sales department. Helldivers 2 is literally killing it. A AA title that kept what matters at the forefront. Fun. These studios truly need to get back to that and not these technical showcases that no one cares about offline and off these forums, lol.
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Interfectum
Member
Honestly, no matter which side of the fence you are on, Hermen Hulst needs to go. Dude sucks.
Jaybe
Gold Member
I don’t get this. Herman co-founded Guerilla Games in 2001. Been in the industry delivery products for decades. Do you want someone like Sarah Bond who was at T-Mobile a few years back or the new head of Blizzard who was at NFL partnerships. I take someone involved in the industry and shipping product versus a non-industry suit any day.
Interfectum
Member
Give me a suit.
You need someone cutthroat that will force deadlines and compromise. If you don't and get nice guys like this, they will let a developer hang themselves. You need an asshole in charge, not your buddy.
Jaybe
Gold Member
I mean, he’s firing 900 people. Doesn’t seem like their buddy.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
What is broke? How is it broke?
Interfectum
Member
He's being forced to because PS profits are drying up.
Hulst should have gone to every Sony dev that isn't Insomniac or SSM early last year and said if you don't ship a game by Christmas you all are fucked. Instead he's nice guy Hulst who sympathizes with development woes. Sometimes you need an asshole at the top that saves you from yourself.
Phil "Take your time and build your dream game!" Spencer is very similar in this regard. They are people pleasers, not good managers.
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Hero of Spielberg
Gold Member
Obviously not profitable enough for them. Unless you think they close studios lay people off, cancel projects say they need to be more efficient and reevaluate how they operate for fun?
Moriarty1889
Member
Herman Hulst is a bloody wanker! He sucks at his job and should have been canned by now. Get some other people in charge and turn this around before it’s too late for Playstation. They need to get back to the roots of what has always made Playstation the unique console to be on……..great new AAA SP games NOT endless remasters or exhausted IP (TLOU and Horizon).
ReBurn
Gold Member
Kind of feels like a weird false dichotomy. The only options aren't either a Sarah Bond or Hermen Hulst. Sony can get someone who has a better understanding of how to deliver games in the current economic environment without hiring someone from T-Mobile.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You're probably reading this wrong.
Sony sees this as absolutely the time to cost costs.
They're going to do fewer 3rd party exclusives as well. Now that they're in a position where the PS5 will largely sell itself, they don't need to have their expenditure as high.
This is the closest Sony has been to the PS2 days, except now they're a digital retailer... Sony barely made 1st party games back then. Which isn't to say that they won't make games anymore, I think they'll just make fewer games and less risky games.
Badlucktroll
Member
ChorizoPicozo
Member
i feel Phil Spencer will be free to replace herman's job next year
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
PlayStation isn't "known for" narrative driven GAAS though.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Profits have been low because they've reported the Bungie acquisition as a cost on the balance sheet.
The layoffs have more to do with reducing overall business costs to keep the share price up because of fears over the overall growth potential of the console hardware market.
None of that requires them to "reevaluate the way they operate" as a gaming publisher.
They are still the single most dominant gaming platform and revenues are astronomically high (more than twice that of Xbox).
You don't change how you do business and risk revenue chasing profitability... if you change direction and it fails, congrats... now you're fucked in both revenue and profit.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
oh yeah such a great investment. Let's give steam or epic 30% of our money, introduce piracy to our games and make pieace with never again selling games for 70$ because pc players don't buy full priced games.
Truth is, they failed with gaas push and overinflated budget of their games. Games should be 10-20 hours. not 30-50 with insanely expensive actors and so on. be more creative, make new IPs, Excite people.
Or at least be like nintendo. They are content and confident with their output. Sony isn't any of those
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
That would be a risky move in and of itself and could risk them losing their entire player base to PC.
If they choose to relax and rest on their laurels now that MS has checked out, they will regret it. It will have a net negative effect on their console business and will not lead to increased profitability.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Hero of Spielberg
Gold Member
Take it up with SIE management, I don’t call the shots
AGRacing
Member
ABSOLUTELY there with you 100%. This generation absolutely blows.
Self_Destructive
Member
Bubu but just the other day I read a thread that said they aren't changing strategy!
Who to believe?
Who to believe?
Braag
Member
I sometimes wonder why such amazing minds as yours aren't in high advisory positions at Sony. You clearly know exactly what's what and how Sony can maximize their profits.
Sushi_Combo
Member
No, this is not it. I like the comedy aspect of it but there's more to it.
Sharply declining profit margins is certainly a compelling reason for a strategy reevaluation
More like 20%, and not even piracy on the PS4 could significantly dampen their revenues from key first party games.
Sure, they give up 20% to Steam. But you might as well demand they stop selling physical games since there are non-trivial costs involved with physical retail sales including logistics, retailer cuts and price of the discs and cases etc. Not to mention losing on second hand sales.
By your logic, Sony should have made the PS5 all digital. Quite weird you're sneering at the 'great investment' part since the person you're talking to is speaking as a consumer.
Aren't you the one who's taken so much time to dump on Alan Wake 2, a project made with very prudent budget management, over small visual imperfections?
ZehDon
Gold Member
A AA sequel no one expected to do numbers - least of all Sony? That's not really indicative of Ryan's "GAAS push". I think their biggest, most lauded, most expensive, traditionally single player focused studio cancelling a multi-year GAAS project after their recently-acquired-GAAS-centric studio told them it wasn't up to par is more indicative.
hyperbertha
Member
By reusing 80 percent assets and bringing nothing new each game?
cash_longfellow
Member
GAAS is beginning to die out…thank the f’n gods!