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Will Hermen Hulst get the axe for Concord?

will he?

  • yes, and he should

    Votes: 150 29.5%
  • yes, but he shouldn't

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • no, but he should

    Votes: 273 53.6%
  • no, and he shouldn't

    Votes: 85 16.7%

  • Total voters
    509
Depends if Jim Ryan already took the fall for the Live Service push and failure. Who had the greatest influence here, Jim or Herman?

Once Herman took over as CEO these games were already well into development and likely past the point of no return in terms of investment.

Herman does share responsibility so far that he oversaw the studios, but the pivot towards live service games 100% lies with Jim Ryan.
 
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Depends if Jim Ryan already took the fall for the Live Service push and failure. Who had the greatest influence here, Jim or Herman?

Once Herman took over as CEO these games were already well into development and likely past the point of no return in terms of investment.

Herman does share responsibility so far that he oversaw the studios, but the pivot towards live service games 100% lies with Jim Ryan.


Hermen was on board with every initiative of the past few years and Sony has doubled down on them. In fact, he's the core business guy, not Ryan, so I'm more inclined to think that he was the one selling these bright ideas to Jim, who was as clueless as Phil Spencer.

Either way, both of them have damaged the brand, and the transition from PS4 to PS5 has been a disaster for PS Studios.

Another gigaflop should be strike 3 for him.
 

Yoboman

Member
Nope

They just promoted him. He may feel a lot more pressure on his role now though

Who is head of first party now?
 
I think it also depends on the reason for the flops. Did Concord flop because it was a bad game, or because the market was fatigued.

At the time that these games were greenlit GAAS was growing like wildfire and the likes of Fortnite were taking it in for companies. At the time Sony would have been stupid not to persue it.

Seems like Marathon and FAIRGAME$ are too far along in development to cancel now.

Now that the GAAS gold rush is coming to an end with the winners seemingly now established, I think he’ll be judged on what he does next.
 
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I think it also depends on the reason for the flops. Did Concord flop because it was a bad game, or because the market was fatigued.

At the time that these games were greenlit GAAS was growing like wildfire and the likes of Fortnite were taking it in for companies. At the time Sony would have been stupid not to persue it.

Seems like Marathon and FAIRGAME$ are too far along in development to cancel now.

Now that the GAAS gold rush is coming to an end with the winners seemingly now established, I think he’ll be judged on what he does next.


Sony's most profitable IP is FGO, a 7-year-old GaaS that still keeps earning millions.

Helldivers 2 is the most successful Sony game this year.

There is only fatigue for bad games.
 

Yoboman

Member
Depends if Jim Ryan already took the fall for the Live Service push and failure. Who had the greatest influence here, Jim or Herman?

Once Herman took over as CEO these games were already well into development and likely past the point of no return in terms of investment.

Herman does share responsibility so far that he oversaw the studios, but the pivot towards live service games 100% lies with Jim Ryan.
Ryan wasn't really connected to the day to day of games IMO. These initiatives were 100% from Hermen

Some examples I can think of

Ryan was talking about the value of next gen exclusives before suddenly everything was cross gen, and Guerrilla led the charge with the first major cross gen game. This basically started the Lying Jim Ryan reputation

PC ports - again it was Hermens studio doing it first.

Live service being such a big focus definitely came from Hermen
 
Sony's most profitable IP is FGO, a 7-year-old GaaS that still keeps earning millions.

Helldivers 2 is the most successful Sony game this year.

There is only fatigue for bad games.

How much has Helldivers 2 made them?

If it’s more than the cost of Concord then I can probably forgive Herman.
 
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SSfox

Member
Ubisoft CEO has been much worse for a much longer period and remains there. Phil Spencer ran an entire console business into the ground and remains there. Hermen will have like a 10 year run IMO.

Yeah but PlayStation is not Ubisoft or Microsoft, we don't tolerate bunch trashcan here.
 

nial

Member
Almost like it's a rumour and not confirmed!
Yeah, that's where I was going. It's not true.
If you alter Totoki's quotes, of course it doesn't make sense.

In its latest fiscal report, Sony president Hiroki Totoki said it wouldn't release "any new major EXISTING franchise titles"

Concord is NOT one of those. So there is no contradiction.
Don't play dumb, they were tempering investors' expectations over a decrease in their first-party revenue for FY 2024 compared to FY 2023.
But sure, Sony was expecting their supposed $400M Concord to be their biggest project ever.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Yeah but PlayStation is not Ubisoft or Microsoft, we don't tolerate bunch trashcan here.

“We”

thierry-henry-trying-not-to-laugh-nxkais63bkn6dbca.gif
 
Yeah, that's where I was going. It's not true.

Don't play dumb, they were tempering investors' expectations over a decrease in their first-party revenue for FY 2024 compared to FY 2023.
But sure, Sony was expecting their supposed $400M Concord to be their biggest project ever.
Personally I think the discord around this game has gotten so stupid.

People have too much of a vested in this game and GAAS in general failing that logic has been thrown out the window.

Hey I generally in that camp as a 99% single player only gamer but I'm not going to run with rumours as gospel just to keep a narrative going.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Depends if Jim Ryan already took the fall for the Live Service push and failure. Who had the greatest influence here, Jim or Herman?

A rumor going around is that Jim Ryan took the fall for his behavior in the ABK circus and that Sony Corp in Japan was not happy with how he made the company look so he had to fall on his sword.
 

yurinka

Member
Showing their roadmap would take all the pressure away.
People who complains will continue complaining independently of whatever they do.

If they announce games close to release people complains that they don't announce new games too frequently (which is a lie btw).

If they announce games too early people complain that games take too long and start creating conspiracy theories of devs being in dev hell.

If they show games too early people complain about games having downgrade because what ever vertical slice they shown several years before having the game made doesn't look the same than the retail game, demanding the devs to be fortune tellers who predict how games that still aren't made will look.

If instead of announcing a few games every year -mostly ones very close to release- as they do now, they announce their whole roadmap of games to be released the next 5-7 years or so then people will complain that in the next 5-7 years they didn't have any game to announce.

Is this the reason why they’re not announcing any big games…
Lies. They have been announcing and releasing several games.

Wait so the 400m is CONFIRMED?
No. The only source is Moriarty, who has been wrong about Sony things many times.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Sony's most profitable IP is FGO, a 7-year-old GaaS that still keeps earning millions.

Helldivers 2 is the most successful Sony game this year.

There is only fatigue for bad games.
Fate Grand Order has probably made them $5B of sales by now. Oddly, housed within their music division, and more oddly I dont think Sony has really pursued more mobile gaming when they got a smash hit.

If Sony wants some uber sales, maybe try for some more mobile games that catch on. The production budgets would be smaller than a AAA console game.
 

MethodRed

Member
Long delays on games and allot remakes, Hermen not delivering maybe is not he's fault all studios have the woke virus infection and not creating good games anymore.
 
People who complains will continue complaining independently of whatever they do.

If they announce games close to release people complains that they don't announce new games too frequently (which is a lie btw).

If they announce games too early people complain that games take too long and start creating conspiracy theories of devs being in dev hell.

If they show games too early people complain about games having downgrade because what ever vertical slice they shown several years before having the game made doesn't look the same than the retail game, demanding the devs to be fortune tellers who predict how games that still aren't made will look.

If instead of announcing a few games every year -mostly ones very close to release- as they do now, they announce their whole roadmap of games to be released the next 5-7 years or so then people will complain that in the next 5-7 years they didn't have any game to announce.


Lies. They have been announcing and releasing several games.


No. The only source is Moriarty, who has been wrong about Sony things many times.

I was actually one of the ones who repeatedly complained about games being announced too soon.

However this later in development announcement policy happened to coincide with the pandemic causing development delays.

This seems to have lead to a big gap in the amount of games being announced and has killed the momentum from the PS4 days somewhat.

I have faith Sony’s main studios will deliver, but there’s certainly a lack of excitement at the moment which feels new and unwelcome.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Depends if Jim Ryan already took the fall for the Live Service push and failure. Who had the greatest influence here, Jim or Herman?
PlayStation has had 8 people serve as President and CEO of SIE. The average tenure length of that position is less then 4 years. Jim Ryan served 5.

Watching Jim Ryan "get fired" but also work 6 additional months at the company, make deals with companies like NCSoft, and get parties with his face on cookies is such strange fantasy to believe in.
 
Long delays on games and allot remakes, Hermen not delivering maybe is not he's fault all studios have the woke virus infection and not creating good games anymore.

The pandemic starting just after Ghost of Tsushima and Last of Us 2 wrapping up development hasn’t helped things either, they’re likely at least a year behind schedule.

Not to mention their next games will take longer to make due to the graphical expectations.
 
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Bernardougf

Member
PlayStation has had 8 people serve as President and CEO of SIE. The average tenure length of that position is less then 4 years. Jim Ryan served 5.

Watching Jim Ryan "get fired" but also work 6 additional months at the company, make deals with companies like NCSoft, and get parties with his face on cookies is such strange fantasy to believe in.
You know you can give your opinion without being a condescending asshole dont you ? EviLore EviLore already gave you the hint yesterday... you may want to take it.
 
Fate Grand Order has probably made them $5B of sales by now. Oddly, housed within their music division, and more oddly I dont think Sony has really pursued more mobile gaming when they got a smash hit.

If Sony wants some uber sales, maybe try for some more mobile games that catch on. The production budgets would be smaller than a AAA console game.


My theory is that Aniplex is under Sony Music so it works independently so it's not handled by the Californian bunch. Hermen would find a way to mess it up, with dumb decisions like inserting Aloy in Genshin, a retarded move if I ever saw one. From that standpoint, it's wise that mobile games remain out of his reach.

However, it's a missed chance that they have that IP and don't turn it into a full-fledged JRPG. Well made, FGO might have become what Genshin is nowadays, but Hermen and Jim were too busy shutting down Japan Studio and whatever else resembled anime. It's hilarious that Sony owns Crunchyroll and it doesn't build a competent studio to exploit those IPs while Totoki complains about the lack of IPs.

Clown world.
 

Trogdor1123

Member
im going to sit on the fence. It depends on what all happened behind the scenes. If haven’t an advocate, then no. If he was, then yes. The buck has to stop somewhere though. It very much sounds like the studio did it to themselves though.
 

yurinka

Member
So he expects Sony to fund games they aren't publishing? Why on earth would they do that, they aren't a charity.

And currently they are funding games as part of the India Hero Project
The guy of the tweet doesn't seem to know what gamedev incubators are. I'm a mentor in one and previously in another one.

What these startup incubator programs do is to, during a certain period of type (typically less than a year) the incubator brings them local experts in the different fields of the game development and related business and legal stuff to teach, guide and help them with protips, conferences, feedback or suggestions.

The goal of incubators is to help new teams, in many cases mostly students who just left the University, create their company and profesionalize their team and put them on track helping them to be more successful.

Sometimes incubators offer them free ofice during these months and maybe -depending on the incubator- some minimal funding to cover maybe partly their tiny team only these few months.

As part of the incubation, they normally help the teams to meet investors or publishers, who a few of them also go to the incubator to explain the teams what investors or publishers normally look for and how the relationship with them normally is.

Depending on the case, but mostly as exceptions, the team of the incubator or a mentor may decide to invest or work with on one or a few of the teams who look promising enough. In this case, in some rare case Sony may publish or invest in some title they may consider. But not all teams, and not even in a majority of them.

That is not the goal of the incubator, the goals of the incubators is to support local (normally new, in early stages) companies with the support of experts on each field. In many cases incubators are supported in some way by local national/regional/city governments to support the creation of new local companies.


My theory is that Aniplex is under Sony Music so it works independently so it's not handled by the Californian bunch. Hermen would find a way to mess it up, with dumb decisions like inserting Aloy in Genshin, a retarded move if I ever saw one. From that standpoint, it's wise that mobile games remain out of his reach.

However, it's a missed chance that they have that IP and don't turn it into a full-fledged JRPG. Well made, FGO might have become what Genshin is nowadays,

Sony Music (Japanese branch) has been making games since 1984. PlayStation and SIE (back then SCE) were created inside Sony Music until they branched out to became Sony's game division.

Sony Music (Japanese branch) kept doing their own games, in this case in recent years mostly targeting Japanese market with mostly mobile games. They also have anime business, including Aniplex, who also happens to have their own game publisher.

Hermen is co-CEO of SIE, not Sony Music. So Hermen controls what SIE first party games do, not what Sony Music does.

Hermen and Jim were too busy shutting down Japan Studio

Clown world.
Yes clown world.

It's weird to see people like you acting as if Astro Bot, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Death Stranding Director's Cut, Death Stranding 2, Physint, Lost Sould Aside or Convallaria don't exist or grew in trees or something.

They didn't shut down Japan Studio, they restructured and rebranded it as Sony did several times since the 90s.

But in this case, as part of the restructuring Hermen and Jim fired the bosses who put them to make mobile games, cancelled those mobile games and greenlighted them Astro Bot for their internal development team, plus gave then a new and bigger office and put them in charge of the studio.

And for their 2nd party/support XDEV team, they also gave them a new and bigger office because they now would be in charge of all their 2nd party games developed not only in Japan, but now in the whole Asia.

Btw, both offices are in the same SIE Japan HQ building where their previous office was.

Long delays on games and allot remakes, Hermen not delivering maybe is not he's fault all studios have the woke virus infection and not creating good games anymore.
Hermen released games like Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima, TLOU2, Astro's Playroom, Spider-Man Morales, Demon's Souls remake, Ratchet Rift Apart, Returnal, GoWR, HFW, GT7, many MLBs, Horizon CoM, Spider-Man 2, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade or Astro Bot.

Most of these games got great reviews, won many awards (including a record breaking one) were the best selling one for the studio/IP or almost. And 3 of them broke the fastest selling Sony game record.

Acquired new lead dev teams and support teams like Bungie, Housemarque, Bluepoint, Nixxes etc. and also grew teams like Guerrilla, ND or SSM from working on a single big game to working on multiple of them.

Continued the push to grow in PC started by others and became one of the top 10 publishers in Steam's history and has a crazy yearly revenue growth there. Also grew in the movies/tv show adaptation area and got great success with Uncharted or TLOU plus highly grew that area too.

You need to smoke something hard to think this is not to deliver.

P.S.: The Demon's Souls remake was published a year after he got promoted, obviously he didn't greenlight it. Jason said that he knew that TLOUP1 was under development once he got promoted and he wasn't happy with it. Ballistic Moon was founded in 2019, so pretty likely the Until Dawn remake was signed with Sony then. Hermen got in change in November 2019, so pretty likely he didn't greenlight it.
 
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Dafegamer

Member
No idea if he will, but he definitely should. I don't understand how he doesn't get as much backlash as Phil Spencer regarding how he handles the First Party Studios. He and Jim Ryan are responsible for the bad business decisions that led to the current Problems PlayStation is facing regarding FP releases, Roadmaps and overall pricing decisions. PlayStation hasn't been this "weird" for a long ass time
 

sendit

Member
Bring Shawn Layden before is to late, apologize and bring him back. Playstation is almost in a situation they will be fucked in 5-10 years.
Focus on what u do great(SP games) bring back ps3(2nd half ps4 era), put your few studios to make sp games a mix of short and long aaa games, try to have at least 3-4 games per year.
Concord was likely a Shawn Lyaden green light.
 

RickMasters

Member
No. Just because you guys don’t like Sonys pursuit of money and concord does not mean they will change course or fire hulst.




Peope are really having a hard time with what modern Sony is aren’t they? It’s like watching people who are with girlfriend who suddenly outgrew them because she seen geeener pastures ( in this case GASS green) 😬
 

Rayjin

Neo Member
he definitely will, but not now, probably around ps6 arrival, ther's a good chance most the new heads that got their position around ps5 launch will get axed too, peoples really underestimate the catastrophe that Concord is, and hermen is directly responsible, or at least in a big part, thats literally his job
 

nial

Member
More consequences of Sony's mismanagement. Infuriating stuff.


I hope I could actually understand whatever he's talking about, but it seems that it was an issue back in 2017-2018 regarding funding?
BTW, he went a bit emotional and quoted that post 7 times, this why these clout chasing idiots are a real problem.
Oddly, housed within their music division
That's because Aniplex is a SMEJ subsidiary.
and more oddly I dont think Sony has really pursued more mobile gaming when they got a smash hit.
And that's because you don't know much about Aniplex.
My theory is that Aniplex is under Sony Music so it works independently
Not your theory, that's exactly the case.
Hermen would find a way to mess it up, with dumb decisions like inserting Aloy in Genshin, a retarded move if I ever saw one. From that standpoint, it's wise that mobile games remain out of his reach.
Just so you stop repeating dumb shit like that (or Shu signing a Genshin deal, lmao), he has never had any authority regarding third-party relations, which includes the stuff you're mentioning.
However, it's a missed chance that they have that IP and don't turn it into a full-fledged JRPG. Well made, FGO might have become what Genshin is nowadays, but Hermen and Jim were too busy shutting down Japan Studio and whatever else resembled anime. It's hilarious that Sony owns Crunchyroll and it doesn't build a competent studio to exploit those IPs while Totoki complains about the lack of IPs.

Clown world.
Yada yada yada, please realize that huge conglomerates (especially a holding corporation like Sony Group) don't work like that.
Believing that Japan Studio could have any internal team capable of doing such project is some real dumb stuff, there's a reason they're only making 3D platformers now if you still don't get it (which is BY FAR the best outcome of this whole situation, no matter how much you keep crying about it).
Also, Aniplex owning the Fate IP is news to me? :)
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Well if what Moriarty claims is true, then he needs to go. He gambled and lost. And if he pushed the toxic positivity then he needs to fuck off like yesterday.
 

eerik9000

Member
Between this and TLOU online game, hundreds of millions of Sony shareholders' money has been wasted. Billions, if you also include the Bungie acquisition. Not only that, there has been a reputational damage to Sony's strongest brand -- PlayStation. Loss of value is obvious. Somebody needs to be held accountable.
 

eerik9000

Member
Concord was likely a Shawn Lyaden green light.
What are you talking about. Layden left Sony in late 2019, they partnered with ProbablyMonsters in early 2021. Layden was the "I want fewer but bigger games" guy, but he had nothing to do with Concord.
 

GHound

Member
Also, Aniplex owning the Fate IP is news to me? :)
Yeah, I keep seeing that one pop up every now and then here and other places. It's almost understandable that people get this mixed up with how often Aniplex has been attached as a producer on adaptations of Type-Moon properties, even where A-1 Pictures didn't adapt them. Then there's the whole publishing FGO, TsukiRe, the cooking game, and the Mahoyo and Fate remasters bit.
What should clue people in is the instances they aren't involved at all. Prisma Illya, seemingly Fate/Extra Record, etc. But that would require people to actually be interested in the franchise beyond FGO. Edit: Before anyone takes this bit the wrong way, it isn't meant to be a shot at anyone in particular. That's just my frustration talking. Don't read into it too much.

Glad that it isn't the case though. To say that I would rather dislike Type-Moon being acquired by any other company would be like stating that murder isn't a very nice thing to do and you probably shouldn't do it.
 
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