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[Svafnir]

He's not a tank.

HL is not going to be fun because of this.

Played three HL games with him as the only tank and won them all. He has insane sustain actually. I think he can be built bruiser or tank just fine.

 

[Yoshichan]

30 games today

i'm done

hands hurt

so does my brain

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Leoric players trying to be illidan and stuff

Working fine for me

 

[Yoshichan]

Here's my wannabe Leoric tank build that I've made up so far.

1: Block
4: Fealty Unto Death/Willing Vessel
7: Ossein Renewal
10: Entomb
13: Drain Momentum
16: Renewed Swing
20: Hardened Shield

 

[kirblar]

Stellar Lotus v C9M on twitch.tv/esl_heroes - they've both agreed to allow Leoric early in their match.

But why is Stellar Lotus in ESL, even with the switch to 12 teams?

 

[jaundicejuice]

He seems fun but a little squishy. I also feel like he could be kited to infinity by pretty much any hero. I'll wait a couple days before I decided to buy or not.

Yeah, sorta. The main difference between Butcher's Brand and Drain Hope is Leoric only needs to maintain proximity to a hero. Butcher needs to right click the branded target.

 

[Svafnir]

Yeah, sorta. The main difference between Butcher's Brand and Drain Hope is Leoric only needs to maintain proximity to a hero. Butcher needs to right click the branded target.

Butcher heals for more though. Seems fair.

 

[kirblar]

Oh god, Butcher/Nova gank squad.

 

[Kioshen]

So many heroes have active abilities--from true sight talents to simple AoE damage--to reveal invisible heroes. If you could right click on them to reveal, the whole stealth mechanic would be broken and useless.

At least in HotS you can see an invis hero because of their predator shimmer, in Dota invisible heroes are straight up fucking invisible. If you aren't near a tower, have a gem (expensive), a level 3 Necronomicon (even more expensive) or have sentry wards somewhere in lane or your jungle, you can't see anything until you're already being ganked and you're dead.

Riki and Bounty Hunter would cause Yoshi to have an embolism.

... and then there's smoke ganks too.

 

[Haly]

Invis being good against LiLi is just one of the weaknesses of her design.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Leoric can shrug off a lot with Wraith Walk.

 

[Svafnir]

After playing a ton of starcraft.... It's pretty easy to see stealth in this game. It's crazy how easy it is to counter stealth in hots compared to dota.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm really getting Leoric. BTW Yoshi I'm finding that going these masteries work really well-
1:Hopelessness
2:Fealty Unto Death(The other worthwhile talent only gives you 5% more heal off his W)
3:Ossein Renewal
4:March of the Black King
5:Crushing Hope
6:Consume Vitality
7eath March

I've been rocking Hero league with that build. Let's him cheat death, gives him insane sustain in teamfights, and his damage output is tremendous.

 

[JesseZao]

After playing a ton of starcraft.... It's pretty easy to see stealth in this game. It's crazy how easy it is to counter stealth in hots compared to dota.

I wonder if there's an optimal video setting for maximum stealth contrast. I can spot them usually, but I wonder if it would be easier if I toned it down.

 

[Yoshichan]

I wonder if there's an optimal video setting for maximum stealth contrast. I can spot them usually, but I wonder if it would be easier if I toned it down.

Me and Daniel tried messing around with the graphics settings for like an hour or two in order to find the optimal settings for stealth (along with many other things). Turns out, stealth looks identical in all settings - the only thing that essentially makes it slightly easier is lowering the shaders so that it's not as "cluttery" everywhere.

 

[Orochinagis]

Leoric with Jo and a good healer, instant win so far

 

[Proven]

Huh, Maelstrom's Leoric build is the exact same as the one I used in my last game, with the exception of which Drain Hope talent was chosen at level 13. Also, they proved the point: Leoric with Triple Swing ult is great with another Warrior to lockdown/initiate.

 

[jaundicejuice]

It's crazy how easy it is to counter stealth in hots compared to dota.

Yup. I like invis in HotS because I can play support and not go broke trying to counter an invis hero or be so starved for gold I can't do anything to counter it. You can pick heroes with talents that reveal massive areas or use supports/heroes with skillshots to reveal to counter them. Pick talent, done. Rehgar, Farsight, Tasadar's trait, Tyrande's Sentinel, Clairvoyance on a few different heroes, any AoE.

I wonder if Drain Hope can latch onto an invis hero.

 

[Milly79]

Huh, Maelstrom's Leoric build is the exact same as the one I used in my last game, with the exception of which Drain Hope talent was chosen at level 13. Also, they proved the point: Leoric with Triple Swing ult is great with another Warrior to lockdown/initiate.

Which is?

 

[Svafnir]

I wonder if Drain Hope can latch onto an invis hero.

I assume yes. All non targeted skills reveal stealth. (Skill shots, aoes, etc) only things like uthers stun and zagara hydralisk don't, as you need to be able to click the target.

 

[Rhaknar]

Mounts reseting annoys me much more than it should. But it does

 

[Orochinagis]

Tanks, tanks everywhere, RIP Burst assassins

 

[Proven]

Which is?

I'm not going to say anything is definitive, because they also rolled the enemy team badly while using a three tank comp along with Raynor. Then again, Korean meta has been championing three tanks. I'm curious as to how the meta will shake out over the next few weeks.

Regen, Reduced E cooldown, Increased Q slow, March, W bonus damage, W cooldown reduction, Life Leech. Could be off on what they used level 16.

 

[Turdburger]

Leoric looks pretty shit from a competitive perspective. He could work on DShire and maybe Cursed but he can't solo tank and his damage is so shit that the viability of actually running him with another tank is going to be dependent upon what the other team's comp is.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Leoric looks pretty shit from a competitive perspective. He could work on DShire and maybe Cursed but he can't solo tank and his damage is so shit that the viability of actually running him with another tank is going to be dependent upon what the other team's comp is.

His damage is actually one of the better aspects of him. If you look at the picture I posted on this page and the last page, I managed to out damage everyone on my team and in one game everyone on both teams(The other game Kael beat me out by 5k damage.)

And he's an incredible solo tank, the heal from his W+Ultimate is pretty damn effective for taking on a group, and if you pick up the talent for his Q he can gain a massive amount of health back.

The worst parts of him are his slow attack speed and his cooldowns, but he's a fine tank otherwise.

 

[jaundicejuice]

2:Fealty Unto Death(The other worthwhile talent only gives you 5% more heal off his W)

I think if you're going for a ganking build, the Wraith Walk talents at 4 are worth looking at. If it's being used as an initiation tool, the reduced cooldown if you don't take any damage (10 seconds instead of 14) would be worthwhile. If it's more of an escape after a fight tool, like for overly risky dives, the defensive talent might be worthwhile.

Imagine a Leoric/Buctcher gank squad. Wraith Walk, Butcher charge, Drain Hope and Butcher's Brand while slowed by both Leoric and Butcher.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I think if you're going for a ganking build, the Wraith Walk talents at 4 are worth looking at. If it's being used as an initiation tool, the reduced cooldown if you don't take any damage (10 seconds instead of 14) would be worthwhile. If it's more of an escape after a fight tool, like for overly risky dives, the defensive talent might be worthwhile.

Imagine a Leoric/Buctcher gank squad. Wraith Walk, Butcher charge, Drain Hope and Butcher's Brand while slowed by both Leoric and Butcher.

I'm actually goign to try wraith walk next time around, 4 second 60% speed boost sounds pretty good for ganking.

 

[Turdburger]

His damage is actually one of the better aspects of him. If you look at the picture I posted on this page and the last page, I managed to out damage everyone on my team and in one game everyone on both teams(The other game Kael beat me out by 5k damage.)

And he's an incredible solo tank, the heal from his W+Ultimate is pretty damn effective for taking on a group, and if you pick up the talent for his Q he can gain a massive amount of health back.

The worst parts of him are his slow attack speed and his cooldowns, but he's a fine tank otherwise.

That's nice and all, but his HP pool isn't good for a tank that has no instant HP buffer. He absolutely cannot solo tank--he will just die to burst.

His damage isn't any better than any other tank either. His auto DPS isn't notable, his Q damage is mediocre, and the only real damage that he can contribute to his team is the ability to potentially put 35% on the other team's tank. Any tank in this game can queue up in quick match, get a bad team against another bad team, pick burning rage, and get top hero damage. It really doesn't mean much.

If teams find a way to effectively combo Entomb with other heroes like Butcher or Jaina or find a reliable way to set up ridiculous Marches then he may find a place near the end of drafts. But he's pretty bad at first glance. He will have to be brought up by the presence of some to-be-discovered ridiculous synergy with another hero or heroes.

His best aspects are his ability to be annoying around capture points on DShire and Cursed with his trait and the siege damage that his Q does. He can just spam that shit on walls all game and it adds up. But he can't tank and he can't do damage. He almost feels like a weird version of Murky.

 

[AbundantChoice]

Fealty Unto Death along with increased range on the skeletal swing make Leoric a creep-wave annihilating machine. Especially at higher levels, one swing just instantly destroys a whole wave, then heals you for a *huge* chunk of health at the same time.

But he's got some drawbacks as well. Slow, punishingly slow auto-attack, etc.

One thing I dig about his ethereal escape is the uncertainty of it, since you still take damage while escaping. You're going "did I trigger it early enough to get out alive? c'mon c'mon c'mon!" while it's going off. Nice and tense.

 

[Rhaknar]

I miss playing Tychus. I like too many characters

 

[Duress]

STOP STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF ENEMY TEAMS, WITH LEORIC! WE'RE ALL DEAD, AND GETTING KILLED AGAIN DOESN'T HELP!

 

[Rhaknar]

Opponents that don't spin with me in lane pre-minion wave 1 make me sad

I just want to dance

 

[Alur]

His best aspects are his ability to be annoying around capture points on DShire and Cursed with his trait and the siege damage that his Q does. He can just spam that shit on walls all game and it adds up. But he can't tank and he can't do damage. He almost feels like a weird version of Murky.

It's not competitively viable since we rarely see it, but he's pretty damn strong on mines too.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Here I am winning all these leoric games and I find out my champion sucks as a tank

ok

 

[Turdburger]

Here I am winning all these leoric games and I find out my champion sucks as a tank

ok

I did preface my post with saying I was talking about competitive though

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I did preface my post with saying I was talking about competitive though

True enough.

But one thing I'm consistently doing is getting the top damage. So that's hilarious. Even as a semi-tank that means his worth is pretty great. Right now just finished a match with a 20k damage difference than our KT and enemy team valla. It's ridiculous.

 

[Proven]

Because Leoric does decent damage, and has a bit of zoning potential, I've found him decidedly good as an off tank. Put him in a 2 or 3 tank team and he'll wreck. He helps with ganks, and both of his ults allow for setups and finishers with a number of other ults.

He can be a solo tank, like any tank can be a solo tank, but he won't be great at it. He's outshone by the current top solo tanks: Muradin and Johanna.

Technically, I'm glad that Blizzard has done it this way, but there's the problem that now the game is essentially filled with a load of off-tanks and will likely be getting a third off-healer out of what will be eight total supports. Assassins don't at least have this problem, but instead have to compete against the current burst meta.

Along with Leoric and the recently broadcast Korean games, the meta may end up changing regardless from total burst and may bring back some auto-attackers that benefit from attack speed traits and Giant Killer. Best time to watch for sure will be around PAX.

 

[Alur]

Along with Leoric and the recently broadcast Korean games, the meta may end up changing regardless from total burst and may bring back some auto-attackers that benefit from attack speed traits and Giant Killer. Best time to watch for sure will be around PAX.

I would love to see this...and not just because my best assassins are auto attackers. It's just time for a change.

 

[Turdburger]

Because Leoric does decent damage, and has a bit of zoning potential, I've found him decidedly good as an off tank. Put him in a 2 or 3 tank team and he'll wreck. He helps with ganks, and both of his ults allow for setups and finishers with a number of other ults.

He can be a solo tank, like any tank can be a solo tank, but he won't be great at it. He's outshone by the current top solo tanks: Muradin and Johanna.

Technically, I'm glad that Blizzard has done it this way, but there's the problem that now the game is essentially filled with a load of off-tanks and will likely be getting a third off-healer out of what will be eight total supports. Assassins don't at least have this problem, but instead have to compete against the current burst meta.

Along with Leoric and the recently broadcast Korean games, the meta may end up changing regardless from total burst and may bring back some auto-attackers that benefit from attack speed traits and Giant Killer. Best time to watch for sure will be around PAX.

Yeah but why would you ever pick Leoric over Anubarak, Tyrael, or Arthas? You wouldn't unless the map called for it or you saw something super weird in the other team's comp. Maayyyyybe if the other team picks a shitload of warriors or something because then you'd get a lot more value out of your W. But outside of that I think even ETC having the threat of Mosh Pit puts him ahead of Leoric at this point. Leoric's trait just doesn't give you enough reason to pick him with such a bad base kit.

Also which Korea games are you referring to?

 

[TxdoHawk]

He's a lot of fun, although the number of people who don't seem to understand his cheat death mechanic is hilarious.

Also, it seems like Wraith Walk will let you escape several traps, thanks to the small gap between your physical body and where the spirit spawns next to you. I can confirm that you can Wraith Walk out of a enemy Leoric's Tomb, would imagine there's other stuff that it works on too (zombies? crater?)

 

[BreezyLimbo]

He's a lot of fun, although the number of people who don't seem to understand his cheat death mechanic is hilarious.

Also, it seems like Wraith Walk will let you escape several traps, thanks to the small gap between your physical body and where the spirit spawns next to you. I can confirm that you can Wraith Walk out of a enemy Leoric's Tomb, would imagine there's other stuff that it works on too (zombies? crater?)

Yeah you can:
Go through enemy gates
Go through Zombies
Any 'Temporary' Wall put up

Possibly Butchers chain(?)

 

[Rhaknar]

What if I started playing Zeta and Nova?

 

[jaundicejuice]

Entomb is fucking brutal as Kael'thas, especially if there's a remotely coordinated team behind that Leoric.

 

[Mechazawa]

I thought March of the Black King was going to be useless because it's so slow and long winded, but in practice, it's actually pretty sweet.

I'm guessing long term his other Ult is going to be better for utility though. Especially once all the mirror Leorics tone down.

 

[Alur]

What if I started playing Zeta and Nova?

I don't know who Zeta is, but by gawd I would pay to see this.

Entomb is fucking brutal as Kael'thas, especially if there's a remotely coordinated team behind that Leoric.

Yeah Entomb already feels like Void Prison light to me. It either makes the sickest plays or prevents them depending on the RNG on your Leoric's skill level.

I had a hilarious one earlier today I should've gotten someone to gif.

I was playing Jaina and we had Protonium on Leoric and the enemy of course had a Leoric. Enemy Leoric Entomb's me and then Proto drops Entomb over his Entomb and I was trapped between the two back walls. I iceblocked and lived. It was crazy.

 

[Rhaknar]

I don't know who Zeta is, but by gawd I would pay to see this.

Zera >_< Stupid fat fingers on tiny phone keys

He has that cool Zerg hunter skin on sale too right? Hmmm could this be my next Valla / Sylvanas?

I also want to get more 10s, I keep playing 30 different heroes (and was away for ages) so most of mine are only 8 :/

Can't believe my Li Li isn't 10 tho

Edit: I also still have a grand total of 0 master skins. Alur is judging me for that

 

[Alur]

I also want to get more 10s, I keep playing 30 different heroes (and was away for ages) so most of mine are only 8 :/

I have 17 10's on my main account and something like 26 total across all accounts. After all that, I have the opposite feeling. I wish I had diversified more.

While I also have everyone at probably 6 or above and a lot of 7's, 8's, and 9's, I wish I hadn't rushed some heroes to 10 because I still love to play some of them...but they are already 10 and the EXP past that is just too prohibitive so it feels like I'm wasting it.

Really though I think diversity is the most helpful thing to moving from decent player to good or good to great. If you look at a lot of these top MMR players they are rarely drilled into more than one or two heroes. Outside of whatever their specialty is they seem to play a lot of everything in non-competitive games.

I was thinking what it'd be like if hotdogs MMR was split out between Assassin/Support/Specialist/Warrior instead of all grouped together. I feel like mine would probably look like Assassin - low/mid Diamond, Support - high Diamond/low Master, Specialist - low Diamond, Warrior - Platinum or lower as that's about where my skill lies with each because I never touch warriors unless a new one is released. Something I should probably work on one day instead of playing the same roles as always.

Edit: I also still have a grand total of 0 master skins. Alur is judging me for that

Consider yourself judged and found wanting.

 

[Rhaknar]

It's not my fault the $ skins shit on the master skins. Also I only have Valla and Stiches viable for master skins anyway, with the closest being Li Li and I dont like any of those 3 masters (Valla is ok but I want the van helsing one)

Ironically, Zera master looks amazing ;_;

 

[Pooya]

dunno how good Leoric is yet but he sure looks very coooooool.

 

[subwilde]

Wow Kerrigan is a blast to play...I can see myself playing with her a lot. Kael'thas is at level 10 now so it might be a good time to play something else. Like the post above, I find it hard to switch it up sometimes.