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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Those mobas are totally different though and it makes sense why they have what they have. They should just be more cognizant when creating heroes.I dont disagree that they could rework bdoor protection but i dont know what that looks like and cant think of ways that make bdoor harder without changing the entire game, making it slower, etc.
Like im totally for a long term fix w/ short term problems, but bd is just especially ineffective in this game by design until you get to oversight in hero design. Also bd is a thing in both league and dota, like heroes its a risk/reward thing where its mainly possible if you have made space for it strategically, and their hero designs dont allow for "exploits" or whatever.
The obvious fixes are things like armor, regen, invincibility, more defense with no minions around, stronger tower damage, but all these things mess with the identity of the game in a pretty substantial way
Backdoor is not a thing in DOTA/league like it is here though. Their backdoor protection which makes it impossible to kill tier 2s before T1's is what lets them have cool unique heroes like natures prophet, tinker, and naga siren without breaking the game. Which is why DOTA has near limitless strategies (seriously) and heroes is constantly relegated to death ball.
We get cool unique heroes here too, and they give rise to interesting strategies, but because the game is lacking some key elements of MOBA design the interesting stuff keeps getting nutured and everything keeps going back to death ball.
Having a hero who turns into a ghost when he dies or can tunnel anywhere is good. Letting people skip the crux of the MOBAness by going strait to buildings at the end of the lane is bad.
Leave the stuff that's good, fix the stuff that's bad.
It's prime use is in guaranteeing that 90% of the time or more you have a real comp. Beyond that it's all on your MMR. Grouping in QM can do the same thing.
If you get up to rank 5 - rank 1 most everyone you encounter is a good player so it's more fun (though they may be bad at specific heroes just like any MMR range). Also works if you win a ton early to start your ranked career and get matched with those rank 5-1's while you are still very low ranked but have skills to be high. Otherwise you'll get the better games out of whichever mode your MMR is highest in.
For example my Keyes account has great QM MMR and terrible HL MMR because we spammed 100 games early in groups in HL when we weren't very good and some of our team was brand new. It'd take months to climb out of it so my best bet is QM. Another account I've played barely any QM on so it is silver but my HL is diamond and my rank reflects that, so it's more fun to do ranked and QM is a mess on that account (though low level QM is fun to troll and stomp if you can be arsed to do so through the idiocy).
TL;dr - if you're not at least diamond in QM but want to be rank 10-1 don't blow all your HL placement matches til you are. You have to be a very persistent high platinum or diamond player to reach the top or have teammates who won't make you flip out. Otherwise you'll be in elo hell and even when you inevitably improve you'll never rank the way you want unless you play it day in and day out for months gaining 80 and losing 120 per game. Play til you are near diamond then go and you'll get better games in both modes.
but how do I get out of these lower levels if all I get is games where people start bitching on the first lost team fight and quit, or we have one or two people afk, or that guy that just lanes, etc?
im actually asking lol
im 8-14 right now in hero league. I feel like of those 14 losses, at least half (and thats being generous) were proper games where we lost because we were outplayed, and thats fine. the rest was pretty much all filled with the shit I mentioned. It just feels like a huge waste of time, im not learning anything because there is nothing to learn when most games are 4v5 from the start
im actually asking lol
im 8-14 right now in hero league. I feel like of those 14 losses, at least half (and thats being generous) were proper games where we lost because we were outplayed, and thats fine. the rest was pretty much all filled with the shit I mentioned. It just feels like a huge waste of time, im not learning anything because there is nothing to learn when most games are 4v5 from the start
Yeah i agree with all that. For me the problem and the main difference is map size and distance of forts and the speed that you can travel the map, and how traditional bd solutions dont apply well in heroes. Also it should be noted that bd stuff in league and dota doesnt prevent bd, it makes it difficult just like it is difficult in heroes without cheese. Also the definition of bd im working with is the taking of buildings with no minions around, i dunno if that's clear.
I dont have any problems with the heroes, only when they have unmanageable things in their kits like leoric not moving and spawning in 20 secs w/ tank health and high siege dmg or murky dropping his bombs over and over. When i talk about not messing the heroes up i mean like things they definitely didnt consider, not their uniqueness.
But yeah i dont think we disagree at all that blizz should implement map specific solutions to counter cheese, just hard to imagine outside of hero specific changes.
I dont have any problems with the heroes, only when they have unmanageable things in their kits like leoric not moving and spawning in 20 secs w/ tank health and high siege dmg or murky dropping his bombs over and over. When i talk about not messing the heroes up i mean like things they definitely didnt consider, not their uniqueness.
But yeah i dont think we disagree at all that blizz should implement map specific solutions to counter cheese, just hard to imagine outside of hero specific changes.
Odds are you don't. It takes a ton of work once you get stuck. It's called elo hell for a reason lol. Like I said, there's a reason my main account is gold in HL and probably only has had 10 HL games played on it since it launched in February after we ruined our MMR. You just wait til the season reset and try to improve in the meantime.
You also have to understand that not only do they suck but you are there for a reason too. The hard part for all of us is realizing we aren't pro and no matter how much we kick and scream we also do inefficient or dumb things in every game as well - we just don't call ourselves out like we do randoms. Chasing too hard, being too far forward at initiation so you get burst down easily, going for an objective or mercs or boss without checking mini-map, staying to "just get this turret" and getting ganked or watching your team get rekt 4v5, etc. Shit happens. Most of the time we think our reason for it happening is more valid than another person's though.
You just have to improve, whether by narrowing your hero pool to only heroes you win 50% or more with, improving positioning, choosing more efficient talents, studying replays, watching tourneys, etc. If you love Azmodan but have a 42% win rate but could grab Zagara whom you have a 53% win rate with over the same amount of games, the answer is clear on who to pick...but most people don't follow that logic.
The easiest path is to group with GAF or friendly randoms and build a stable of reliable players you can grow with. I assume (could be wrong) you solo most of the time so that definitely doesn't help unless you're playing strong solo heroes for your MMR bracket.
I get that and it does feel that way, but if I've learned anything about moba it's that we greatly exaggerate the toxicity, afking, trolling, and bad play we encounter. What feels like 50/50 good vs horrible is really more like 70/30 or even less. The bad just sticks out.
I disagree there's nothing you can learn. Some games sure - you get stomped quick and it's done...but honestly those are the good ones IMO. Most games even when the enemy knows it's 4v5 because you have a bot they still wait way too long to go for the throat and the game goes 20 mins anyway. With a game that long you can try new talent builds, work on your attack move/stutter step on creeps and mercs, try to sneak in a 1v1 or set up some ganks (if you die it's already over anyway right? No big), focus on your positioning to survive and contribute when they push, etc etc. and then of course the replay afterward.
Orochinagis
Member
RumblingRosco
Member
For my recorded game of the day, I played Valla. I played pretty badly in solo queue hero league, but got matched up with a sick group of randoms that seriously impressed the hell out of me. Our Uther healed like a boss, our Zeratul engaged in teamfights but positioned so that he could catch their support heroes, our Johanna got in their faces/tanked/disrupted, and our Nazeebo landed so many great zombie walls.
I've never been carried so hard by a team. Usually I feel as though I'm the best or 2nd best player on our team, but I was probably the worst by far.
I've never been carried so hard by a team. Usually I feel as though I'm the best or 2nd best player on our team, but I was probably the worst by far.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
you can but its more fun to spam it
Turdburger
Member
Town Hall Heroes invitational starts tonight for anyone interested. Minor tourney but gives August Open seeding points and features the top 8 NA teams.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
You don't mean all the time, right? Or do you do this for a Remorseless build?
Or have I been playing wrong trying to save 5 stacks for waveclear and engagements all this time?
we're talking about different things then. yes I know that's how back door protection is activated in other games, but no I don't think heroes needs that at all. I strictly mean they should do something to prevent people from taking buildings out of order.
ie. skipping the fort, breaking through the "small" side wall, and taking the keep.
or in this case killing one keep and then staying inside the enemy base and rotating to take the other keeps.
And I also don't think it should be impossible to do that, just so hard that you can't do it as a solo hero (leoric, abathur, or otherwise).
regenerating shields like the core has on keeps until the corresponding fort is destroyed is my best solution.
@turdburger, do you know what time it starts?
milly wru
What? Lol
holy shit Murky is so fun Do people just think he doesnt do any dmg or something? was murdering fools left and right
that was you I added on steam right?
Do people just think he doesnt do any dmg or something? was murdering fools left and rightthat was you I added on steam right?
Now try it with li-li.
Yeah we were talking about different things haha, but im also of the mind that if a team earns it, like if they create the space to take a fort out of order it's a fairly difficult thing to do outside of cheese, most of which also has counterplay and spices up the game. Id say it's easier in this game to run down buildings in heroes (most games i play thats how the game ends), but it's also a large part of the identity of this game which is kind of based around teamfighting and muscling objectives with a numbers advantage, i wouldnt mind if they switched it up tho
RumblingRosco
Member
holy shit Murky is so fun
that was you I added on steam right?
Murky is great. I love playing as him in solo queue. People underestimate the shit out of him.
WesternHeretic
Member
Wrong thread.
WesternHeretic
Member
Oh shit sorry wrong thread LOL.
I haven't seen either of those two free since I started playing, I'm not sure they are allowed on the rotation because of how they play.
they've been on free rotation before. abathur a bunch of times... murky only twice since the very beginning.
Turdburger
Member
Killerhertz
Neo Member
Just bought thrall any build tips or general thoughts on the character?
Orochinagis
Member
Murky is life
Murky is love
Medium graphics be like he is frying on the cheap light source
Aquavelvaman
Banned
You can't hold q if you're using smart cast on release, which is the optimal way to play.
Ah, that's why I never saw it before
RumblingRosco
Member
Yup. I love the sound of my key spams.
tenderbrew
Member
Hey, level 27 profile here, but looking for others to play with whenever if GAF wants to play.
Right now I main Johanna mostly, but looking to get into Abathur or back into Brightwing (RIP) soon.
My name is gnomicide#1197 to add me, thanks!
Right now I main Johanna mostly, but looking to get into Abathur or back into Brightwing (RIP) soon.
My name is gnomicide#1197 to add me, thanks!
US or EU?
(or even Asia)
There is a document linked in the OP, where you can see the battle.tags of Gaffers, and can add yours.
You have to quote the OP, or this post to see it:
(quote to see)
Town Hall Invitational on http://www.twitch.tv/solidjakegg and http://www.twitch.tv/zoiatv
Except solidjake's stream crashed a few minutes ago.
Edit: Solidjake is back up. We're now onto game 2 of Tempo Storm vs. Zeveron on his stream, while Zoia is game 2 of Maelstrom vs. 2Arc.
Except solidjake's stream crashed a few minutes ago.
Edit: Solidjake is back up. We're now onto game 2 of Tempo Storm vs. Zeveron on his stream, while Zoia is game 2 of Maelstrom vs. 2Arc.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
The Asian server changes hero rotation a lot earlier than NA. Illidan is fun, I don't know why I avoided him for so long.
tenderbrew
Member
US... thanks for the info. I'll add my name to it.
jaundicejuice
Member
I feel like I'm queueing against nothing but coordinated 2-3 stacks with nothing but randoms for teammates.
tenderbrew
Member
Added my info to the list. Thanks guys, hope to see a bunch online.
Added ya, I'm on most nights around 9 - 11 EST.
Orochinagis
Member
Wish I was 'murican
Thank god for blizzard to incluye all america in the american server
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