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[Zafir]

I agree. People need to get away from the impression that supports are just there to stand in the back tossing heals. I'm hoping monk is compelling enough that the meta will become a little friendlier to the currently unpopular supports.

The ultimate could be nice, but I'm not sure considering if you can keep them alive through healing why do you need a resurrect. The reason healers are currently more popular is because they are effectively a cushion. If someone makes a mistake and takes damage, healers can come in and save the day, Tyrande and Tass cannot do that. With that in mind you're making it harder on yourself by not having one. Until the benefits of not having an healer outweighs or is even towards the benefits of having one, why wouldn't you take one?

Now to solve that problem I feel like a lot of changes needs to happen. Healing needs to be reduced on the healers. Some damage may need to be reduced, or it needs to be more avoidable in the first place, but not sure about that one.

 

[kirblar]

I agree. People need to get away from the impression that supports are just there to stand in the back tossing heals. I'm hoping monk is compelling enough that the meta will become a little friendlier to the currently unpopular supports.

They aren't unpopular in the least.

They just aren't main healers.

 

[Alur]

The ultimate could be nice, but I'm not sure considering if you can keep them alive through healing why do you need a resurrect.

It's not a resurrect. It basically stuns them (puts them in Stasis) for a second/seconds at low health (Divine Shield) and then heals them for like 3/4th. It's almost like Divine Shield + Ancestral all in one, except you can't move during it.

And that's like a circular argument IMO. Why does Uther need Divine Shield since he has big heals? Why does Rehgar need Ancestral since he has AOE heals? The ults are there to bolster the rest. Seems no different on Monk than any other healer, we just don't know how good his regular heal will be to compare just yet.

 

[Ketch]

Well to be fair, his second ult looks like it is about a 3/4th HP heal

Yea I hadn't seen that video before I posted. Looks a lot like ancestral.... If it is then monk already viable basically off just having that one ability.

Kind of a bummer actually. Especially since the other ulti looks unique (and dope as hell)

 

[Alur]

Kind of a bummer actually. Especially since the other ulti looks unique (and dope as hell)

I know folks are focused on the healing, but I hope he can do at least decent off tank or better damage to be damage viable (he'll still have his heal to function as a Tyrande/Tassadar like replacement + he has a talent that gives vision on Q). That's how I really want to play him...just like I did in D3.

 

[Ketch]

Are his talents out? He looks like he's gonna be real hard to balance.

Like already better then 90% of the melee assassins in the game.

 

[Rhaknar]

Are his talents out? He looks like he's gonna be real hard to balance.

Like already better then 90% of the melee assassins in the game.

both his and Rexxar talents are out

 

[Alur]

both his and Rexxar talents are out

Some of the talents, not all of them. At least on Heroes Nexus.

 

[Rhaknar]

Some of the talents, not all of them. At least on Heroes Nexus.

you are correct sir. still, gives an idea. also his trait choice at level 1 is weird, it seems to only affect HIM, so its not really a "im going to choose to dps or to heal" thing like we thought. like 1 trait heals him with his attacks, the other boosts his attack power or something and the last gives him mana from his attacks

btw, with 2 heroes soon (monk and rex), deffo should be getting a "proper" patch soon aswell?

 

[Zafir]

It's not a resurrect. It basically stuns them (puts them in Stasis) for a second/seconds at low health (Divine Shield) and then heals them for like 3/4th. It's almost like Divine Shield + Ancestral all in one, except you can't move during it.

And that's like a circular argument IMO. Why does Uther need Divine Shield since he has big heals? Why does Rehgar need Ancestral since he has AOE heals? The ults are there to bolster the rest. Seems no different on Monk than any other healer, we just don't know how good his regular heal will be to compare just yet.

Fair enough, the wording above made it seem more like they came back alive if they died during the period.

I agree that it will depend on how good his base heal is though.

I just don't see his base heal being that high purely because the rest of his abilities seem damage oriented.

 

[Rhaknar]

you can see the heal in the video with him and a sonya (I think) escaping and it looks tiny

 

[kirblar]

you are correct sir. still, gives an idea. also his trait choice at level 1 is weird, it seems to only affect HIM, so its not really a "im going to choose to dps or to heal" thing like we thought. like 1 trait heals him with his attacks, the other boosts his attack power or something and the last gives him mana from his attacks

btw, with 2 heroes soon (monk and rex), deffo should be getting a "proper" patch soon aswell?

It's gotta be this tuesday or the one after.

 

[Ketch]

Rexar looks way cooler then monk

 

[Rhaknar]

such a good comeback. Got my blood pumping. Lost the first 2 mines, pretty handily too, but we turned it around and a couple of almost 100skull golems midway and some good pushing got us the win

edit: Rexxar's tank spec is via his pet, so cool

Level 1

Grizzled Bear - Misha periodically reduces damage from enemy heroes.
Hunter Gatherer - gather regen globes to increase Health Regen. (unsure if it affects Misha)
Survivalistic Training - gather regen globes to increase Mana Regen.
Flare - gain vision of an area

Level 4

Hungry Bear - Misha's basic attacks heal her.
Crippling Talons - increase Spirit Swoop slow amount and duration.
Taking Flight - increase Spirit Swoop range, returns mana.
Easy Prey - Misha is more effective against Minions and Mercs.

Level 10

Bestial Wrath - increase Misha's basic attack damage.
Unleash the Boars - send a pack of Boars to hunt enemy heroes.

Level 13

Wildfire Bear - Misha deals damage to nearby enemies.
Thrill of the Hunt - basic attacks increase move speed.
Bear Necessities - Cast "Misha, Charge!" again if you don't hit a Hero.
Barkskin - Misha takes reduced ability damage after charging.
Level 20

Spirit Bond - increase Bestial Wrath duration and Misha heals Rexxar with her attacks.
Kill Command - Unleash the Boars deals more damage and roots enemies.
Frenzy of Kalimdor - your Basic Attacks deal more damage and Misha's attacks slow.
Hardened Skin - you and Misha take reduced damage.

 

[super-famicom]

Ok, Rexxar is looking pretty cool to me.

 

[Maledict]

I agree. People need to get away from the impression that supports are just there to stand in the back tossing heals. I'm hoping monk is compelling enough that the meta will become a little friendlier to the currently unpopular supports.

The problem is the game is currently balanced around those backline supports. Without them the game doesn't work. If Blizzard want us to shift away from that role they need to rebalance. the entire game.

 

[Complistic]

The problem is the game is currently balanced around those backline supports. Without them the game doesn't work. If Blizzard want us to shift away from that role they need to rebalance. the entire game.

Or they just need to reduce the healing on those supports and bring them in line with the other "half" supports.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

guys holding Q doesn't make sylvanas quickly fire her abilities

I am

disappointed

 

[Ketch]

guys holding Q doesn't make sylvanas quickly fire her abilities

I am

disappointed

It doesn't work with some modes of quick casting.

If Blizzard want us to shift away from that role they need to rebalance. the entire game.

They don't really. They can just continue to add more supports that don't have big burst heals while tuning down burst healing and big team healing ultimates on the big 4.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It doesn't work with some modes of quick casting.

I don't have any quick casting on

 

[ZealousD]

I feel like hero design would be better if the heroes were build around an idea, rather than a role personally, but that'll probably never happen since Blizzard seem pretty happy with the role classifications.

Heroes built around ideas exist. They're called specialists.

 

[kirblar]

The damage in the game is balanced around those right now- it's why there's an arms race with the assassins for insane burst atm. You have to look at nearly everything and adjust downwards if you make that change.

 

[Ketch]

I don't have any quick casting on

Then it should be working

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Then it should be working

it didn't

I'm holding you responsible ketch! 1v1 me!

 

[Rhaknar]

my Zeebo is on point lately

Master Skin thirst is real

 

[kirblar]

Thought it worked on normal and push-to-cast but not on cast-on-release.

 

[super-famicom]

my Zeebo is on point lately

Master Skin thirst is real

Nice. My Match History yesterday was the complete opposite

 

[Rhaknar]

10 games to go for master skin and I actually dont have 10k gold lol... I should lvl some of my 8s to 9 first I guess. Ill leave him with 1 game left till 10 I guess

 

[TurboLibre]

Any good Sylvanas tips out there? I just picked her up and I'm not quite sure how to play her. She seems designed to push, but in both recent matches I played as her she was hard stopped by the enemy team. Maybe I just don't have a good build down.

 

[Ketch]

Well Breezy. Either everyone who holds down Q is hallucinating, or its just not working for you for some reason. Does it work with lili?

The damage in the game is balanced around those right now- it's why there's an arms race with the assassins for insane burst atm. You have to look at nearly everything and adjust downwards if you make that change.

They don't need to make any drastic changes right now. Just hope they don't add more big burst heals (or damage really). If they added another big burst damage I'd probably be disappointed with that too. I feel like they need to fill in the spaces between KT, Jaina, Uther, Rehgar, Johanna and muradin. Then add more bans (or any bans in casual play), then look at rebalancing stuff.

More utility supports and warriors is a good start. which is at least the next two maybe three heroes. The game will be better after monk and Rexar are added anyway so I'm not gonna complain right now.

 

[TurboLibre]

Well Breezy. Either everyone who holds down Q is hallucinating, or its just not working for you for some reason. Does it work with lili?

Q works for me on Sylvanas. I don't think it works for Lili. But because of the cooldown, I'm not sure if I've ever held it down, now that I think about it.

 

[Valus]

Heroes built around ideas exist. They're called specialists.

Not really. Most specialists are just built around good siege damage.

 

[Ketch]

I'm still more excited about balance patch then heroes. I want to see buffs for a lot of heroes. Raynor, tychus, gazlowe, sonya, thrall, stitches, Diablo... Please show some love blizz.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So the Q thing for Sylvanas doesn't work 'On release'. Which sucks cause I like having On Release on

 

[Alur]

Any good Sylvanas tips out there? I just picked her up and I'm not quite sure how to play her. She seems designed to push, but in both recent matches I played as her she was hard stopped by the enemy team. Maybe I just don't have a good build down.

Unless you're hyper aware of the map, split pushing solo with Sylvanas is almost always gonna end in your death. You can nab the odd tower or wall here and there, but pushing hard with her without regard for anything else is gonna lose you games. Her trait really shines when it's disabling for your team for a quick fort/keep/whatever.

In the end, like with most any other hero the name of the game is team fighting and she does good sustain damage that way but most of her burst has been nerfed.

Build her for damage, the trait has all the push potential you will ever need.

I'm still more excited about balance patch then heroes. I want to see buffs for a lot of heroes. Raynor, tychus, gazlowe, sonya, thrall, stitches, Diablo... Please show some love blizz.

If there's more Raynor stuff I'd be shocked. They keep doing stuff for him and it doesn't matter. Maybe they'll give him another minor buff somehow but /shrug.

As for the others, I wouldn't hold my breath. They seem to narrow in on 5-10 per patch. Stitches seems to be on the radar so maybe he'll get some more love. I think they are happy with Diablo's spot now, it's just he doesn't work with how the game currently sits.

I also think Tychus is fine. It's just he's not burst and the meta is burst. He could use a little more, sure (IMO even with the range increase his main issue is still a survival one), but he'd still be the 4th-6th pick in damage even so.

 

[Ketch]

I think they only need some minor numbers buffs which is why I'm hopeful. Easy stuff blizzard, make it happen!

 

[Maledict]

They don't really. They can just continue to add more supports that don't have big burst heals while tuning down burst healing and big team healing ultimates on the big 4.

I think characters like Kael cannot exist in the game without the big healers .If you cannot heal up his damage (which the big 3 can for a while at least), whichever team has him wins. same goes for some of the other assassins - the levels of burst and poke have ratcheted up considerably since the alpha, and it seems clear they are balancing around those levels.

If they nerf the big 3 healers (plus Lili obviously), then they will also need to nerf the levels of poke and burst to compensate as well. Otherwise the game really will just become a messy chain focus brawl where characters like Kael dominate.

 

[ZealousD]

Not really. Most specialists are just built around good siege damage.

Abathur's hat wasn't really built for siege damage and that is his defining characteristic. Murky's design was about making a little annoying shit. The fact that the pufferfish does strong damage against structures is not what defines him.

 

[Alur]

I think they only need some minor numbers buffs which is why I'm hopeful. Easy stuff blizzard, make it happen!

I would love to see that. I'd love for them to touch most every character each patch if necessary...but it's Blizzard. Their philosophy is make every little thing perfect (or their version of perfect) before moving on, so that seems unlikely at least this early in the game's life.

the levels of burst and poke have ratcheted up considerably since the alpha, and it seems clear they are balancing around those levels.

This is what I find so hilarious and also so confusing.

There was a point around the end of Alpha or early Closed Beta where they basically nuked the shit out of burst damage. Everything was two healer comps, Valla and Illidan were the top dps picks, etc...

...and now here we are again. It's just kind of a cycle. You can see similar power spikes and subsequent nukes for specific playstyles in other games as well. Sooner or later it'll reset again here...and then sooner or later it'll work it's way back in.

Otherwise the game really will just become a messy chain focus brawl where characters like Kael dominate.

Well right now it's a poke off where characters like Kael still dominate.

 

[kirblar]

Specialist = Siege and/or super-weird non-tank/non-supports.

(IMO Abathur should be under support)

 

[jaundicejuice]

As someone who likes to play support quite a bit one thing I dislike about HotS is how every support has a heal and what seems to determine how top tier a support they are is how powerful that heal is. It's fucking boring design but I guess with the removal of items--no Observer or Sentinel Wards, no Mekanism, Mana Boots, Force Staff or whatever item you would deem to be core on x hero--that's pretty much how they define the role, through healing.

Rexxar looking like lone Druid. Pretty hype. Bummer there's not more control over misha.

Lone Druid mashed up with Beastmaster. I fucking dig it.


Man, it would be too good if Rexxar's level 1 Flare talent functioned the same as a hunter in WoW by revealing invis units.

 

[Ketch]

Man, it would be too good if Rexxar's level 1 Flare talent functioned the same as a hunter in WoW by revealing invis units.

What else would it do? I imagine it being similar to clairvoyance.

 

[Alur]

Dem skins. Dem mounts. Dem heroes. Dat map.

I want it all, I want it all, I WANT IT ALLLLLLLLLLL...and I want it now!

 

[Rhaknar]

that is exactly what flare will do, what else would it be? its just a renamed clayrvoiance or however you spell it

starting to get Zeebo fatigue

 

[kirblar]

Apparently there's more stuff coming Friday during a livestream, including the 4th on-deck hero.

 

[Ketch]

Aww shit whose the 4th hero!?

When's the next patch?

 

[jaundicejuice]

Overwatch is now in my bnet client.

What else would it do? I imagine it being similar to clairvoyance.

The initial description sounds like it just provides regular vision of an area, like the obs some supports can drop. Flare in WoW is mostly a pvp skill for revealing invis units like rogues, hunters and druids.

So yeah, a level 1 Clairvoyance basically is what i hope it is. All kinds of fun for free Nova and Zeratul weeks.

 

[super-famicom]

Overwatch is now in my bnet client.



The initial description sounds like it just provides regular vision of an area, like the obs some supports can drop. Flare in WoW is mostly a pvp skill for revealing invis units like rogues, hunters and druids.

So yeah, a level 1 Clairvoyance basically is what i hope it is. All kinds of fun for free Nova and Zeratul weeks.

Same here, but it doesn't have anything but a trailer.

 

[Valus]

Abathur's hat wasn't really built for siege damage and that is his defining characteristic. Murky's design was about making a little annoying shit. The fact that the pufferfish does strong damage against structures is not what defines him.

That's why I said most.

Azmodon
Nazeebo
Sgt Hammer
Zagara
Gazlowe
Sylvanas

Even the two you mentioned can top siege damage charts if they wanted to. The only real exception I'd say is TLV.

 

[Rhaknar]

Overwatch is now in my bnet client.

no it isnt