super-famicom
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I play on a 2011 MacBook Pro, some of the screenshots in this thread look amazing in comparison to my experience.
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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
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I play on a 2011 MacBook Pro, some of the screenshots in this thread look amazing in comparison to my experience.
Samurai G0SU
Member
So some stuff from THH I found interesting after listening fully last night:
- They seem convinced KT went from being a monster at 16 to a monster period - almost to the point where Blizzard will have to tone him down yet again. The impression from folks I've played with seem to be the same. There was lots of complaining here and everywhere else about the changes prior to seeing it in action, though. Thoughts? Is this like the second or third talent rework they've done to change a playstyle that actually didn't fail?
- Monk will be a viable solo support below Rehgar and Uther but at Malfurion's level (for NA - EU uses Malf more). I'm not convinced about solo support versus one of those three names, but with Tassadar or more likely Tyrande? Sure.
- Kerrigan's buffs plus the pre-Cleanse nerf means she's gonna be OP. Think we all knew this though.
- Jake thinks Brightwing will see play now with the passive increase. I think monk will get that spot cause he kind of does the exact same thing (minus poly), only better and with a better heroic.
He's heals. Of course he's squishy. People think he's going to be a viable solo support competitively so pretty good. At the very least he's damn fun and will couple very well with some melee and Tyrande.
hehe, he looked more squishy than jaina in that blizz video. The sacred palm looks interesting and causing upsets.
If you go back to the IGN article, while they don't list the question they ask, they imply they ask if Activision franchises could be included.
That said, I don't think this meshes very poorly. Like do people see Alexander Graham and feel he wouldn't fit with baby murlocs or someone like Antonidas?
Monk and BW don't fill the same niche at all. They don't want a return to 58% winrate BW. That's what they keep not understanding on THH- BW was completely and totally OP for a very, very, very long time, and her rework is/was meant to get her in line. Slowly tuning up her healing until they find a sweet spot is better than overshooting and getting people used to OP BW all over again.
Interfectum
Member
In the answer they go straight to Overwatch and SC2. It just seems like IGN made a leap there that Blizzard isn't even thinking about yet. Like I said, I bet it could happen down the line but with Overwatch coming and many Blizzard heroes not accounted for yet I doubt we see Activision heroes for years, if ever.
I understand what you're saying and I agree to an extent, though I also understand their frustration with a slight numbers tweak when we all know that isn't going to be enough and they could've tried that out 3 weeks ago with Leoric and added another tweak this time for two more data points instead of one. That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about right now, this very minute if you went in a draft she's not better than him.
I'm saying monk is a hero with AOE heals who can teleport around to specific heroes - albeit in a smaller radius - yet does the job better than Brightwing currently. All he lacks is Polymorph. From my point of view, anything you'd use her for you'd be better off using him til she again receives more work.
That's the definition of filling the same job. He AOE heals the group. Unlike BW's AOE, his actually gets much stronger prior to 20 whereas hers used to but now doesn't until there's a big increase at which point the game is often already decided. And in the end, his healing ult is ultimately more powerful.
You would never pick them for the same comps though- they're not interchangeable. Yes, both can bounce around (BW needs to pick up an Ult to do it), and both have passive healing abilities, but that's the extent of their similarities
Monk needs melee heroes, needs to be able to go fight on the front lines with them- he's very good but is hugely dependent on a team comp. Monk can't stay in the back line due to the nature of his abilities. BW is someone who should be good at two things- getting picks, and sustaining through long slow poke sessions. Currently she can do the former, but not the latter, so slowly tuning up the volume is the way to go.
You and I both know they don't do mid-patch balance changes unless its to fix busted stuff like V1 Chain Bomb/Ignite.
Monk needs melee heroes, needs to be able to go fight on the front lines with them- he's very good but is hugely dependent on a team comp. Monk can't stay in the back line due to the nature of his abilities. BW is someone who should be good at two things- getting picks, and sustaining through long slow poke sessions. Currently she can do the former, but not the latter, so slowly tuning up the volume is the way to go.
You and I both know they don't do mid-patch balance changes unless its to fix busted stuff like V1 Chain Bomb/Ignite.
Samurai G0SU
Member
After two games, i liked the butcher.
wish he had better skins avail though =/ i;m not that fond of his master skin -_-
wish he had better skins avail though =/ i;m not that fond of his master skin -_-
Their argument wasn't whether they do, it was whether they should do it so some of these dead end heroes can be brought back to life quicker. And the answer is yes they should.
As for Brightwing vs Kharazim, sure, you probably want to fit them in different specific comps for competitive. It's just that BW's probably still won't exist because they aren't there yet or more specifically she isn't.
For the rest of us, my point remains if you're grouping in QM or drafting in HL come next week there's pretty much no reason to take BW over him when he can perform either job better right now.
As for Brightwing vs Kharazim, sure, you probably want to fit them in different specific comps for competitive. It's just that BW's probably still won't exist because they aren't there yet or more specifically she isn't.
For the rest of us, my point remains if you're grouping in QM or drafting in HL come next week there's pretty much no reason to take BW over him when he can perform either job better right now.
I wouldn't expect anything short term or mid term, yeah.
the most ridiculous of all comebacks
butcher (my friend), malf (me), brightwing, vikings, leoric vs uther, brightwing, valla, kerrigan, gazlowe
we had no dps throughout the game, vikings just laned. It was a hard loss, but all of a sudden, they stop going for curses (they got the first), they just chased kills and forts, we got a curse, our boss, then their boss including 4 of them, and we pushed for the win
lol? im SURE they were foaming, I know I would be
butcher (my friend), malf (me), brightwing, vikings, leoric vs uther, brightwing, valla, kerrigan, gazlowe
we had no dps throughout the game, vikings just laned. It was a hard loss, but all of a sudden, they stop going for curses (they got the first), they just chased kills and forts, we got a curse, our boss, then their boss including 4 of them, and we pushed for the win
lol? im SURE they were foaming, I know I would be
jaundicejuice
Member
Brightwing still has a global presence and polymorph. The monk can't instantly be on the other side of the map and polymorph can just shut down heroes, abilities and ults. I would imagine BW's sustained heals are easier to maintain than the monk's, she just needs proximity, she can even talent to have a larger AoE for her trait, whereas the monk needs to be right clicking things three times in a row for his trait to be effective.
How often are you getting pressured out of melee range as the monk? How effective is the monk when he can only AoE heal? How much CC is getting thrown your way? How quickly can the monk get blown up? It looks like he faces the same challenges as The Butcher and Thrall.
These are the same problems Brightwing faces now, as well, though. She gets pressured more or less in the same way but now there's no more Gust of Healing + Sprint out. You need to use your Pixie Dust to mitigate damage on others because the healing is so low so now that's not a reliable out. So until 16 when you can double Pixie she's not hanging around much farther out than Kharazim unless you play selfish or are ignored. Take the larger radius, sure, but then you're losing the reduction on Phase Shift which is one of her most useful talents.
I love Brightwing. She was favorite prior to getting nerfed. But after playing 20-30 games with Kharazim or having him in the group, she's just not there healing wise. Her heals cost no mana, indeed, but the effect is so neutered now without the burst talent that you need another source. Since she does no damage, you're better off taking a different healer + a damage dealing support like Tyrande or Tassadar than taking Brightwing + any others. Polymorph is a great tool but so is Stitches Hook. Neither can carry the hero on their own as we've seen lately.
Kharazim does get pressured out of melee, but he also has a built in Q to escape melee and can get right back in with the second charge. He has her teleport on a small scale. As for losing out on your passive trait every 3 autos, that's a concern sure but with Echo of Heaven the majority of your healing is coming from W. If you combine that with Circle of Life at 16 he's healing absurd amounts while Brightwing is pinging Pixie Dust on two targets.
She is better with the healing number improvements (and ironically we have like a 100% winrate with BW + Kharazim), but she's still pretty underwhelming at her main job according to her role.
Depends what level you're playing at I guess. My account that I never QM on fluctuates between silver and gold in QM and people face check everything they can find. Every other game has someone with 10 games or less played. On my others which are a good bit higher it's just the occasional idiot.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I don't mean "getting caught out" type of out of position, I mean being 1000 miles away from anything the enemy is attacking and for whatever reason also not attacking anything themselves while they are way out there. Like usually this is how it goes.
Early game: I'll constantly be stuck in 2v1 and no one will respond. I'll hold it, just barely, and meanwhile zero progress is made in the other two lanes. HOW?
First objective: Enemy team takes it, or if it is a progressive one nobody responds until it is almost over, and when they do it is one at a time to get killed one at a time.
Mid game: See above except it's when it's 3 people pushing a gate/fort. If it's something like Spider Queen, team never checking for turn-ins and don't respond when I'm trying to prevent one.
Mid-late game: See above except it's when the enemy team is obviously getting all merc camps.
Late game: Run headlong into deathball one at a time. Surely that is how you team fight.
No sense whatsoever the entire time. Just completely, utterly oblivious, catching on way too late, and then doing the wrong thing in response. This is despite me communicating/using pings in a polite manner and being right every single time. But what astounds me the most is not the blindness, but the fact they manage to get nothing else done. How can you get a completely free counterpush and fail to push it forward? How?
Turdburger
Member
KT is fucked up. One DWW with chain bomb can wipe a team and insta-gib a hero or two in half a second. At least with Flamestrike there's a one second delay and you can avoid it. This shit is unavoidable and the radius is ridiculous. Also speed tornados are ridiculous now with the level 4 talent. Hero is insta-ban if he remains the way he is.
Here's an example of the new chain bomb
Would Flamestrike + Ignite done similar amounts of damage? yes, but a few heroes would have been able to step outside the circle and dodged it. Living bomb's visual indicator is basically nonexistent and it's both instantaneous (as fast as you can D -> W click W click) , and it's point and click so you can't dodge it at all nor can you see the radius when it's on you and you're surrounded by shit.
Most ppl think he's worse than malf - he has no root or utility really. He kind of just becomes a positional healbot by taking all the healing talents that has enough output to be more viable than Lili and Brightwing.
I don't really think she's OP but she'll be a part of most drafts now instead of being a niche pick that only certain teams practice and play. Her level 7 shield talent basically lets her regenerate her lost mana after a combo and punishes you less for missing combos in the early game because you'll have way more mana to work with.
"OP" would be 30% explosion speed tornado chain bomb Kaelthas and Zeratul.
But I do think you'll see teams target ban Kerrigan quite a bit against teams with good Kerrigan players
I don't think Jake said that, that was Kevin and Kevin's an idiot. Brightwing won't see any play
LOL, I was about to say the same when I saw
no mistakes. No misplays. No bad calls. 100% no lie.
I'm pretty sure it was Jake. I'd have to go back and listen. I say Jake because he was and has already talked about her buff on his stream.
Turdburger
Member
Kevin was the one arguing that the 20% scoreboard healing increase was a big deal and everyone else was just like STFU Kevin she still has no burst heal and still sucks asshole.
Edit: the reason I remember this is because Kevin said something like "well Malf has no burst heal either" and everyone was like "uhh.... ever heard of Tranquility, Kevin?" and only Kevin would have said something that stupid to begin with lol
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I'm not saying I'm psychic or something, you are simply overestimating the level of play we're talking about. When the other team can do whatever the fuck they want without being bothered, they don't even try to hide where they are going, and they are just going to go for the most aggressive strategy possible. It's really not hard to know what they are doing in that kind of situation. If my team challenged them in the least, I'm sure they would take less risks or try to be sneaky in some way.
Um, KT isn't wiping any team with a chain Bomb build. It does significantly less damage than an empowered flamestrike. He's a lot more fun to play, but (unless you go pyromanic) can't output the same numbers on a single target anymore. His overall damage has been reduced from what it is on live with Living Bomb remember.
The GIf you linked btw is an example of dreadful play, not KT being overpowered. Watch it again - kerrigan dies because the Nazeebo had zombie wall up, and each zombie exploded off a chain Bomb. It was dreadful, dreadful play by the red team that is incredibly easy to avoid.
Well McIntyre is an amazing player, but his entire team was clustered in one tight spot where they couldn't damage the enemy Kael'Thas thanks to the wall. Even despite that they only lost the Kerrigan - had that been the current KT on live the entire team would have been roasted.
Maybe so. I do remember the Malf having no burst heal comment. Jake has been talking about her on stream, however.
jaundicejuice
Member
Kerr wasn't in the zombie wall, just by it, well it's hard to tell with the punisher there but that's how I see it. There was also a creep wave all around Kerr. Basically a shitton of things to proc chain bomb off of.
I'd be curious to know what the talents were, well, specifically if Gathering Power was chosen or not. Fission Bomb, Chain Bomb and...
I've been playing in the PTR, mostly just bot matches to try out some heroes talent reworks since queue times are absurd so it's hard to gauge KT's damage output when there's always a sizable level gap.
I'd be curious to know what the talents were, well, specifically if Gathering Power was chosen or not. Fission Bomb, Chain Bomb and...
I've been playing in the PTR, mostly just bot matches to try out some heroes talent reworks since queue times are absurd so it's hard to gauge KT's damage output when there's always a sizable level gap.
Turdburger
Member
You're neglecting the fact that competitive teams will build compositions around this and take advantage of it on certain maps.
It's stupid and needs to be changed. The radius increase was just a dumb ass idea
Iakona went speed tornadoes that game
I am mac's god, get it right.
And what's the problem with Kael being good with that build on certain maps? Right now he doesn't have an amazing win rate, and his damage outside of pyromaniac is being toned down.
If he is still a good hero then we should be happy - for once blizzard has done a rework and it hasn't dumpstered a hero. Personally I think the PTR is giving us a false picture - KAel is being allowed to do stuff we all know he can't on live. Kael anywhere near the frontline dies instantly right now, and none of the changes he gets are going to change that.
If he is still a good hero then we should be happy - for once blizzard has done a rework and it hasn't dumpstered a hero. Personally I think the PTR is giving us a false picture - KAel is being allowed to do stuff we all know he can't on live. Kael anywhere near the frontline dies instantly right now, and none of the changes he gets are going to change that.
I think he'll still be playable, but won't be at the same tier he was. THH thinks he has been buffed, which going by their track record means he's now worthless.
(Snitch was right about that - they have consistently completely failed at judging heroes on the show. Zoia in particular is dreadful at predicting major heroes / changes).
(Snitch was right about that - they have consistently completely failed at judging heroes on the show. Zoia in particular is dreadful at predicting major heroes / changes).
Consistently completely failed at judging new heroes, and that was mainly Zoia IIRC. As for the rest, they've been pretty accurate at determining when a nerf or buff has had it's desired effect. Kael isn't a new hero and we can see him in action unlike the majority of the heroes they have "judged" previously.
He's gonna be just fine. The only thing that's gonna drop him or not will be whether auto attack heroes resurface as viable alternatives or remain dormant.
jaundicejuice
Member
Kael lost Ignite and gained a talent that rewards trying to actually combo his abilities rather than simply being a Flamestrike cannon. He's more fun to play and should be at risk more often now.
jk u got Living/Fission/Chain bombed
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Crash bandicoot!!!
I still think it was dumb to get rid of ignite. They should have ditched flamethrower and nerfed ignite. But it was a cool talent.
Edit: but overall I think it's a good rework
Yea same. He seems totally uninteresting to me. I'll get him when he drops to 10k
Turdburger
Member
Unlike last time we had a PTR, quite a few of these teams have been playing real competitive scrims on this PTR, particularly the ones who have already qualified for the USA regionals and are practicing more for the MSI MGA tournament at PAX Prime, which will be played on this upcoming patch.
Previously when Zoia was making comments about Johanna, Butcher and Leoric (I can forgive him for Leoric because everyone thought he was bad at first), they definitely had not played with those heroes in a competitive setting before he opened his mouth. This time it's different though
He could still be wrong, but this time he was probably just echoing his team's opinion and a day's worth of results from scrims is usually enough to tell if something is broken or not.
jaundicejuice
Member
The easiest thing the could have done was put ignite and flamethrower on the same talent tier. Make it so players have to choose between damage and safety, they can't have both.
Now people can go back to whinging about Chain Bomb because of Fission Bomb's AoE proc.
powerdrain
Member
When will the new patch including Karazim go live?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Sounds like an Aqua Teens character
Tuesday.
I'm surprised the map's coming out too, only because we know John Cena doesn't work tuesdays.
Turdburger
Member
I like the concept of a hero that has a big power spike at 16 but what Blizzard wants is talent parity. If you move Flamethrower to 16 and don't do anything else then I think you might get the parity but then that hero is just bad. I dunno.
They need to just put a cap on the chain bomb thing or change how the first LB interacts with the second when combining it with his D. It can still be fair that way but the way it is now the radius on that thing is so big that it's pretty much impossible to avoid in certain situations on certain maps.
Like, Kaelthas runs into you in a party bush and instead of your team being rewarded for good positioning and tactics he just gets cleansed and insta-casts DWW and takes 3 heroes to 1/3 health. Is that fair? No, that's fucking stupid.
yea if you let KT walk into your party bush and DWW your whole team then that is pretty fucking stupid.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
oh nice, new map should be fun...
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