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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
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Robottiimu2000
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I have QM around 1500 playing my first MOBA ever and I got in to HL a bit too early, lost some games ended up 800 MMR getting up from there has been challenging... There is my elo hell.. I will get out of there, but I could swear some of those people do not know what those big numbers in the center top of the screen mean...
I will crawl and carry my way out of that hole, but oh you wouldn't believe the Sonyas I've seen...
Rip big guy
I like how they didn't even comment on him losing his egg.
You early plunge was in placement matches- I have the same dip in my QM history early on. At that point your rating is highly volatile.
If you stabilize on the lower half (which you didn't) you are not going to be having fun. My QM log looks pretty much just like your HL log one.
Turdburger
Member
right? lmao that pretty much sealed the game for Tempo Storm because Cloud 9 had to then defend the core 4v5 and none of the casters ever mentioned it
It starts when you cross ~100 games and you're in that region you show in your screenshot. You can look at the previous screenshot you posted and show that you climbed out of 1500 and into the 2100 and greater range quickly. Even still, it shows you around 2300 and the games at that level versus what you see at a higher level are still riddled with far more of the bad elements of mobas (afk/trolling/toxicity).
I agree with you that a lot of people's complaints about people costing them games or whatever are unfounded to some degree, but let's not act like people don't have a worse experience in different brackets which makes it harder to advance.
Lock you an account in the 1500-1900 MMR range and see how much fun you have climbing out. You'll pubstomp some games, and then you'll lose 3 in a row because you have two dc's and a Gazlowe who never leaves bottom lane. Then you'll stomp another and the next will have a Lili taking Water Dragon but raging about how you can never win a teamfight because you suck as Nazeebo. We don't see that very often at our level, but it's very frequent at lower levels and makes things harder.
So looking at my graph then where would you say that it stabilized? I mean it took me 5 months to hit 2k.
Where is the elo hell? 1500?
Or was I just getting matched with 1500s who weren't trash during that period?
I played through that range, I've been in those games... I still get those games now. How does an account get locked at 1500-1900 mmr? The same way an account get's "locked" at 2500-2900 mmr.
You also had a 50 game stretch where you went 36-14 over an extended period (72%) and at one point you were 32 - 9 (78%) - a winrate that is both lucky and borderline absurd and rarely repeatable. The only people with winrates like that long term are all in Master league.
You're also fully discounting the fact that you are normally a Diamond level player and therefore probably far more equipped to claw your way out if you have the patience. A player stuck in the same 1500 Bronze spot who has improved to say only Gold or low Platinum with their knowledge and skill will not be able to "carry" or influence a game as hard.
You played in that range with me in QM and we weren't in it long. I agree, an account gets locked there the same way as it gets locked anywhere. That's not the point though. You are being obtuse.
The point is the climb out is much harder at a lower level than a higher level. I can rely on my teammates at 2900 MMR to at least show up to teamfights, respond to objectives, and in general know how to use pings on a reliable basis. It's not 100%, but it's the vast, vast majority of the time. If I'm stuck at 1500 or 1700, I can rely on neither no matter how much more I learn or improve and that makes my climb harder. I am still going to be matched with absolutely brand new players because they are around my level, so it is much harder to go on a streak.
Ugh, I now hate this game. After winning 6 straight, I went 1-4 today.
Team mates spending more time on the chat cursing at each other (not at me, but DPS getting mad at Hammer for blocking them, etc etc), matches where our tank doesn't want to do anything but lane the WHOLE match so every team fight we were outnumbered without our tank, a match where 2 of teammates ran into the mines super early before anything spawned then 2 more going into the side where the other entire team had just jumped into just to get instagibbed...
It's things like that, that's just like ARRRGG why you are guys so dumb!
I love the team oriented style of this game, but queing solo and having to deal with idiots like that really brings me down
Team mates spending more time on the chat cursing at each other (not at me, but DPS getting mad at Hammer for blocking them, etc etc), matches where our tank doesn't want to do anything but lane the WHOLE match so every team fight we were outnumbered without our tank, a match where 2 of teammates ran into the mines super early before anything spawned then 2 more going into the side where the other entire team had just jumped into just to get instagibbed...
It's things like that, that's just like ARRRGG why you are guys so dumb!
I love the team oriented style of this game, but queing solo and having to deal with idiots like that really brings me down
na league finals are on now
http://www.twitch.tv/riotgames
good way to contrast compare and think about what hots wants to take/excise from their own productions
also it's gonna be hype
http://www.twitch.tv/riotgames
good way to contrast compare and think about what hots wants to take/excise from their own productions
also it's gonna be hype
Okay, I will be as un-obtuse as possible. If you're stuck at 1700 mmr it's because that's where you belong. It's not because you're actually 2500 but everyone around you is bad.
no it's not. it actually gets harder to raise your MMR the higher your MMR gets, not the other way around.
this is also not true. Are you still not getting team members who fail at all those things on a consistent basis? Because I sure as heck do. shitters exist at all levels of play.
except the low mmr players are on both teams. If you are truly better then your teammates then you'll also be better then your opponents.
the MMR does average out team MMRs in a way that can make one or two players outliers sometimes. But that's still not every game, and even then team MMR is still averaged. So if your secretly better then what your MMR says you have a higher chance of winning because your teams average MMR is secretly higher then what the game thinks it is.
But regardless, if there's somebody whose 700mmr higher on the other team it should be impossible for him to carry just like it's impossible for the secret 2500k player to carry his low level team mates too.
I'm not saying the system is perfect, or even good, just that it's the same for everybody. If you're stuck at a certain MMR it's not because your teammates are bad.
I don't think we've ever played together before dude. I have no idea how good you are at the game. If my arguement sounds personal, then I'm sorry, it's not my intent.
okay. I can agree with that. If you're trying to get better, the struggle is real at any mmr. But it does sound alot like blaming people around you for where you are
@milly: you are clearly the best player on your team every time.
Ah ok, we have and we didn't get along, lol. Thanks for clarifying.
No wonder Milly likes Nova so much.
You want me to seriously evaluate you?
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Initially, yes. And probably 90% of the time overall. However luck is a thing. MMR averages is a thing. People who are better do get stuck. And...
...this is not true in this game from my experience and the experience of others in this thread. It is true in most games, but the way matchmaking is created with MMR averages ensures that you aren't reliably going to play people at your level to climb above...you will play people above and below you often, and the matchmaking is demonstrably worse at lower levels than higher for MMR ranges that get averaged together. We've also seen countless examples of that in this thread. Look at kirblar's post a few posts back about his latest HL games matchmaking.
What part of "I can rely on my teammates at 2900 MMR to at least show up to teamfights, respond to objectives, and in general know how to use pings on a reliable basis. It's not 100%, but it's the vast, vast majority of the time. If I'm stuck at 1500 or 1700, I can rely on neither no matter how much more I learn or improve and that makes my climb harder. I am still going to be matched with absolutely brand new players because they are around my level, so it is much harder to go on a streak" did you not understand?
The part where I encounter it at Diamond, but it's rare, or the part where lower level players encounter it and it's common. Do you not read the thread? We have lower level players constantly posting in here about asinine shit that occurs that SURE, sometimes occurs at Diamond, but it's pretty damn rare. Like 1 in 10, not 5 in 10. Maybe they are exaggerating a bit, maybe they are bad as well, but there's no doubt that bad happens more at those levels and no matter how much you know, you can't fix someone else's mistakes.
Are you seriously going to sit here and say you see as much or more clueless play at 2800-3200 MMR (which is where you normally play and definitely play when you play with us) than a player will see at 1700? Really? I know you love to argue, but c'mon breh.
Except the statistical deep dives on HOTSlogs that have been posted have shown that one of the greatest indicators of a loss is whichever team has the lowest MMR player, not whichever team has the lowest MMR average.
Even then, though, that is neither here nor there. The point isn't that a bad player is losing you a game, it's that there are simply more bad players in general due to be so close to the new player entry level.
It's not and no one is saying it is. But it contributes far, far more at Bronze/Silver/Gold than it does at Diamond/Master.
Like I said in my last post, we might lose a game at Diamond because of a throw or a bad call, sure. We rarely lose a game because someone never leaves their lane, regular D/C's, or toxicity. At low levels people with bad connections or who just pull the plug are insanely common.
Give it a try some time. If you think you have bad games regularly now, you'll be surprised.
RumblingRosco
Member
I could take Ketch in a 1v1 me as Murky him as Abathur.
Kerrigan log: I've decided that QM ravage builds aren't as good as I thought. The mobility is great, but if your team isnt generating lots of wounded soldiers, there wont be anyone for you to really jump on. And as an assassin, you really need to be applying heat.
I'm currently playing kind of a modified version of the old seasoned marksman, doublestrike maelstrom build, but my 1 and 4 talents are kind of all over the place.
I'm currently playing kind of a modified version of the old seasoned marksman, doublestrike maelstrom build, but my 1 and 4 talents are kind of all over the place.
I'd say on average I see some fucked up shit in like 1 out of every 3 games or so... maybe it's a little better then that. Like we had KT who kept disconnecting and that illidan on haunted mines (or curse?) who pretty much did nothing. But I often feel like there's still a way to win.
I can't say for sure what a player will see at 1700, but my point was the same kind of misplays will happen on either team, so you can't really blame the quality of player for costing you the game. Sure it'll happen sometimes, someone will make a bad misplay that will cost you the game but it's just as likely that misplays on the other team will cause you to win.
which sounds like what you're saying here:
My argument is that being surrounded by bad player isn't going to make you stuck at a certain MMR. And that blaming your teammates for a lose is counter-productive if you are trying to improve.
I still see the exact same thing.
Last pick randoms zagara because he was hovering on Tychus even though 1. the other team first picked tychus (also a stupid thing to do), and 2. we had no supports.
we won that game.
edit: but that's not the point. It's just as likely that the other team will have a shitty comp. It might feel like its only ever your teammates who suck, but it's almost assuredly not the case.
@milly are you insta-locking nova enough?
I'll take that one: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/
I don't think you quite understood- these people are deliberately picking Tass/Ty in the support role because they think the character is a full healer.
AFK picks will happen at all levels. You can't fix a complete and total lack of basic game knowledge.
Never again. Slogged through to get the mount. Just not my game.
I basically don't see these people when I solo queue, no. Climbing to Rank 1 in HL a month or two ago it was extremely rare to encounter someone who was just shockingly incompetent. Same for solo queue in QM. Lately I've mostly been queuing with 3 or 4 other people to QM, and clearly the average skill level is lower but there's still very little "fuck you guys I'm just going to lane" behavior from our random fifth or from the other team. Sure, sometimes people keep pushing while the first raven skull is up, but this is often a justifiable decision. The main difference in teamwork I've noticed at different MMRs (maybe 2000 to 3000) is that people at lower MMRs basically try to do their part of what they think is the best strategy regardless of what anyone else on their team is doing. Like, when someone does stay and push a lane while the first raven skull is up, three or four other people will suicide into the whole enemy team at the skull and then get mad at the person pushing for not being there. This always struck me as kind of weird - maybe continuing to push was the wrong decision, but starting a 4v5 was definitely the wrong decision. But overall I've been really impressed with the willingness of randoms to work together in this game, compared to LoL. However, I've spent very little time around 1500 MMR.
I don't want to take a position on the existence of MMR hell, but it does seem to me to be hard to explain someone being much better than their MMR and having an expected MMR gain per game of nearly 0. The usual explanation is that you get screwed by terrible teammates, but it seems like you've got only 4 chances to draw a terrible teammate while the other team has 5 chances. If there's one terrible player per game and they guarantee that their team loses then you still expect to win 56% of your games. Duo queue and it goes up to 63%. Certainly if you've played a whole bunch of games your MMR gains and losses will be quite small such that it will take a long time to get anywhere, but this strikes me as a different problem. I suppose if the game actually tries to constrain the MMR distributions on each team to look similar and what really matters is who has the worst player, then matchmaking might be trying to put exactly 1 player on each team with an MMR of ~300 below the average MMR, and these players are so much more likely than higher-MMR players to be randomly terrible that games come down to who got a worse low-MMR player, which would make it about 50/50 (with the obvious exception of games where you're the one with the lowest MMR on your team, but I don't know how likely this is at different MMRs).
I checked my last 10 games on Hotslogs, not many I know.
But in that small sample actually I found no correlation that the lowest MMR player is always on the losing team.
It seems to help to party up with good people closer to your MMR though.
I assume below 2000 MMR is worst, because all new players with start there
Some games may be decided by the matchmaker, both for you and against you, but there are also enough games, where your skill can make the difference?
Sounds true to me.
But in that small sample actually I found no correlation that the lowest MMR player is always on the losing team.
I am at around 1700 MMR right now, which is the starting value, and I am happy to have finally taken that hurdle. It is a slow and steady climb, and I don't feel like MMR hell.
It seems to help to party up with good people closer to your MMR though.
I assume below 2000 MMR is worst, because all new players with start there
So you are arguing for the long run?
Some games may be decided by the matchmaker, both for you and against you, but there are also enough games, where your skill can make the difference?
Sounds true to me.
That is probably always a good mindset
your second paragraph is spot on to me, and your skepticism about the worst player being a deciding factor makes a lot of sense
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