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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
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Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Full group now! LET'S DO IT!
First off, let's remember we are talking Quick Match here. Not tournaments. Not Hero League. Quick Match. Saying that...doesn't matter as much as we think it does? The stats back it up. I don't know how ~10% higher loss rate doesn't matter.
You lose far more than you win without a support. We have quite a few examples of this from several places. By correlation due to the change to compensate for that (support always matches support), you will continue to lose at a rate higher than normal with a support who is really not great at any particular thing - not great at supporting, not great at dealing damage, only great at surviving - over a hero who is great at healing or who alternatively is great at damaging filling that spot.
You can Tassadar stan all you want, we all have our baes, but if you would prefer Tassadar over the top three healers or an even longer list of assassins in your QM then sorry breh, your games are far different in master league world than what it seems the rest of us are seeing right now. Our anecdotal evidence says so, Blizzard says so, hotdogs says so. You guys are the only ones I see going the other way.
And I've legit not seen Tassadar in an NA game in some time. Link me da YouTubes from a prominent team in a non-throwaway game that didn't involve countering stealth.
You lose far more than you win without a support. We have quite a few examples of this from several places. By correlation due to the change to compensate for that (support always matches support), you will continue to lose at a rate higher than normal with a support who is really not great at any particular thing - not great at supporting, not great at dealing damage, only great at surviving - over a hero who is great at healing or who alternatively is great at damaging filling that spot.
You can Tassadar stan all you want, we all have our baes, but if you would prefer Tassadar over the top three healers or an even longer list of assassins in your QM then sorry breh, your games are far different in master league world than what it seems the rest of us are seeing right now. Our anecdotal evidence says so, Blizzard says so, hotdogs says so. You guys are the only ones I see going the other way.
And I've legit not seen Tassadar in an NA game in some time. Link me da YouTubes from a prominent team in a non-throwaway game that didn't involve countering stealth.
jaundicejuice
Member
The reason I play Kael'thas versus other assassins is because I like Kael'thas and you don't know what kind of match you're in for, what kind of teammates you'll have or how they're going to play until you're in it. I'll give those talents a try but I'm not averse to picking Arcane Shield if I need to. And in recent games I've needed it.
I dont see that as an unmeaningful distance, but the correlation that ppl draw from it is really simplistic imo, it translates to a really unproductive conversation
@alur, weve gone through this before, i dont believe that mmr distance has an effect on the actual hero situation, im fine to agree to disagree on that. Hero kit difference isnt situated in skill, a kit is a kit, tass has good waveclear and bw doesnt, etc
I need to stop solo queueing HL today. shit is driving me bonkers.
This zeratul was absent from half of the teamfights, yoloing around the map, and when he did decide to show up he managed to void prison targets that were about to die FOUR. times. in one game. Hinterland Blast primed? BETTER VP THEM! DFJKLSFADKSF:LADJKSF
KSAFJKS:KLDSF:LADSKFSAMFADJSFK>SJFADLSJFLDSJF
Check the second page of mounts. it's alphabetical so that's the last one.
This zeratul was absent from half of the teamfights, yoloing around the map, and when he did decide to show up he managed to void prison targets that were about to die FOUR. times. in one game. Hinterland Blast primed? BETTER VP THEM! DFJKLSFADKSF:LADJKSF
KSAFJKS:KLDSF:LADSKFSAMFADJSFK>SJFADLSJFLDSJFI just noticed I don't have my Wonder Billie mount anymore.
Did they remove it? The one for buying stuff in alpha?
Check the second page of mounts. it's alphabetical so that's the last one.
SuperDowns
Banned
Thanks everyone for the Lili guides, I will be trying those when I get home from work tonight.
Not unmeaningful, that's why Blizz took action, but not MASSIVE and insurmountable either.
Pretty sure we're already Battle.net friends and I'd love to play some time. I'm a newcomer, as well and my only other MOBA experience was some League of Legends back before it was very popular *fedora tip*.
super-famicom
Member
Can't believe this loss on Mines. We had the game, then blew it. Sorry to the GAFfer I partied up with, just had to quit battlenet after the match and step away from the laptop.
I wasn;t saying Tass isn't played (although he's dropped off a lot outside of promote it seems). I was arguing the point that Tassadar is bad as your solo support - which he is. Sorry, but point me to the game where a pro-team takes Tass as their sole support.
Of course you win games where you are Tass and the enemy team has a full healer - no-one is saying that. Heck, 43% of the time you win when you have no support! But you undoubtedly have a disadvantage in that match up, and that's the reason he is universally agreed as not being up to the sole support job. you can win, but why make the match harder for yourself?
It's great you love him, and can play great on him and win games because your so good on him. Again, no-one is saying you can't. but that doesn't change the fact he can't fill the role of a normal support, and that on average you are better off having a full support to go with him. Which, ultimately, is the crux of the matter and goes back to my original point (and many others) - he shouldn't be listed as a support anymore. He doesn't fill that role, and in quick match when he's your sole support versus a team that has a proper healer you will face a harder match than you would otherwise.
If you're in quick match only with him (which can be horrible, I definitely agree, if you don't have a good frontline / peeler), then flamethrower is your absolute best friend. You really need to give it a shot, it's so much more safety than Arcane Barrier because being out of range of the enemy team completely is the best defense of all...
.And re. loving Kael - I've been playing for the last 8 months I think, and Kael is already my second most played hero after Tyrael and will be first soon. I utterly adore him, to the point it's driving my little group crazy...
Orochinagis
Member
Any guides,/advices or builds for Johanna? She is really nuts about CCs and nightmare fuel for stealth enemies
Haha i dunno where this thing came from that i love tass, i havent played him in a minute. Like i said, i dont disagree that the majority of players do better with a healer in the support role, im contesting the idea that the game becomes necesarily more difficult when your only support in tassadar. I agree totally that he doesnt fill a sustain healer role which is what hots players think of when they think support, but theidea that the game has suddenly become harder to win is foreign to me, but seemingly totally natural to a lot of ppl. Tassadar offers a slew of things that other supports dont (one example i gave previously was if i was on a team with nova and tass, what the hell am i going to do with a healer here, what lane ami going to, etc.), just as bw offers a slew of things that uther doesnt.
Im fine w/ taking tass out of support classification, but if you have read my posts in the last thread youd know that i am against the role system and role-based matchmaking in general, with one of the biggest reasons being that it forces blizzard to put gimmicky heals on future supports, and another being that it makes ppl think of heroes and roles as these essential things (like a hero league situation where ppl think yo we nees this filled, we x amount of assassins and warriors, etc.)
brickwalker0
Member
mines is notorious for bullshit games, probably the least balanced map.
Let us pray to the prime evils that the D3 map bounces it out of the game forever.
Sylvanas breaks the map in half.
HTVfanatic
Member
I've been wondering this too. I'm having fun with her; I just am not sure how to build her.
The Lamonster
Member
I'm surprised there are still so many quitters in a game where you have to exit to desktop!
I rather do something else with my time than play with a bunch of folk that outright mock and shoot you down when you point out that they're doing it oh so very wrong.
Was nothing but a troll group.
Don't know much about this specific champ(haven't been playing heroes too long) but I can attest that you don't need heals to be a good support, it's more about utility. From an LOL background, there's good healing support options, but the play-making or defensive abilities of champs like thresh and janna are great picks too. I understand this is a lot of people's first moba and takes sometime to see all the possibilities.
fluffydelusions
Member
So the only way to unlock heroes is with in game gold or real money?
HTVfanatic
Member
Yup, although here is a free rotation each week which allows you to play 5 heroes for free. Level the free heroes to 5 and get 500 gold each time.
correct.
idk, nothing wrong with a 4-man bush surprise to start the game, i mean if they stayed down there all game, that's dumb, but that didn't sound too bad.
Samurai G0SU
Member
What is your alternative?
Samurai G0SU
Member
How many minutes were you into the game? What heroes were all bot? What map?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I don't judge you. It's not even about winning or losing. It's about not wanting to play a game with a terrible team that doesn't give a shit about anything. I have quit when I didn't even want to win with the kind of team I was put on, and I don't see what is so horrible about it when an AI playing for them is still more help to them than they'd ever extend to me.
Supports in Dota/LoL and in HotS may use the same word, but other than that they have nothing to do with each other. Being a Support in Dota/LoL means you can perform your role with minimal gold and/or levels. HotS has no gold and uses shared experience, so this usage of the word couldn't even be applied if you wanted it to. It has nothing to do with "this being a lot of people's first moba."
brickwalker0
Member
agreed, the numbers are way different too. other moba healers have one maaaybe two heals which also have alternate effects. a lot of heals on HOTS heroes are just big, pure heals (holy light, regrowth, etc)
I dont want to give off the impression that healing isnt the hot in this game, because it is. I feel like a better example for what im getting at is if gnar was played in every game in lcs, and then everyone got really salty in their own games that they had like mundo top which isn't the ideal pick but still sort of meta; the focus here is on how mundo isnt gnar rather than how can we use mundo, what does he bring that gnar doesnt. Its actually not a great example since league is pretty different tho
Also i missed this when alur asked about tassadonys in comp. play before, im pretty sure he was played in wca finals
But i mean more relevently, what im trying to go towards is less shit we have no healer fuk this vs. Yomang...this tass waveclear and utility is da shit...lanes in the bag...o wait they thought they were going to come at us while we were doing mercs but i popped the yung d and saved all of us...oh dood u cant normally engage all that well but i threw a shield on you which let you get in there...im manager tass promoting minions because thats my responsibility...
And so on
Another example: i get severe cognitive dissonance when im part of a team getting wiped and someone says "we have no dmg"...like whyd u engage then dawg...whyd u not play to our win condition dawg....dawg...
Same when talking about tier lists, with ppl adhering to dat shit like its dat holy text, like lemme see dat tychus pick on sky temple in wca finals cuz laser works here u feel me
I had the same thing 2 days ago, my teamates were desperatly trying to kill Brightwings who harassed bot, yeah Brightwing the utlimate pusher of doom -.-'
Me : "3 vs 1, really ?
Murradin : Shut up noob and help us!
Me, blacklist Murradin
And of course we lost that match thanks to their marvelous teamplay/gameplay/tactic.
No, I didn't pout and stoped helped my team.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I am on such a massive tilt right now, and I feel so sorry for the people that has to endure my bullshit on Teamspeak. The reason why I had to bail out of the group and mute Teamspeak was for your own good. Trust me. I need a 30 minute break or I'm going to end up doing/saying things that I will regret very, very quickly.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Johanna is such an amazing hero. When the trait is talented out, she is easily a top tier tank IMO.
Here is a fantastic guide I found for her if anyone else is interested.
http://www.gamerevolution.com/featu...d-guide-for-winning-with-johanna-the-crusader
Here is a fantastic guide I found for her if anyone else is interested.
http://www.gamerevolution.com/featu...d-guide-for-winning-with-johanna-the-crusader
Same here but this game is just pure fun. I am officially addicted to it.
It's all good.
We had a fun hero league game in which we just stomped the opposition.
PS: You should accept my friend request bud.
You don't want to give that impression (that healing is overrated) but you are denying the usefulness of it while saying its the hotness. I don't even begin to understand your side of this discussion. We are right...but we are wrong?
We know that A) good healing is even better pound for pound for bad and average players because it cleans up their mistakes and B) as Maledict pointed out no one ever goes with a no support or Tass only comp in competitive. Again, we aren't talking about Tassadar with his support buddy in Hero League or wherever, we're talking about solely Tassadar in Quick Match queued in solo and getting placed against a healing support. The Tassadar whose winrate the last 7 days is barely above Stitches, but I forget, you don't put stock in those stats, nor apparently do you the ones Blizzard provided. /shrug
Tis a convenient way to be right in a discussion, I gotta say.
Wow, boi can wave clear. Those first 5 minutes stronk. What about the rest of the game? Need dat waveclear to keep those lanes pushing rite? Good thing we don't have 20 other heroes who can do a similar job without the drawbacks and still have a real support or at least Tyrande. Wow, boi can hit yung D. Cept we have talents or skills on every support and some other heroes for that. Wow, boi can give you that shield...that expires after 8 seconds (the length of the cooldown) unless you talent it where you get to keep a whole 50%! That sure sounds better than Uther healing me every 12 seconds for more than 1/4th of my health, lemme tell you.
As it stands, right now there is very little he can do that you want in a random game that someone else wouldn't have been better served doing which is the whole point of this discussion. He's just not where he was. All the nerfs have added up and the chickens are coming home to roost Bobby Boucher.
As for this discussion you say we've been over and over again (which is another thing you disregard or can't entertain - which seems to happen often), that above me sums up exactly why I bring it up.
Your average player is not thinking about "what's my win condition" or "damn boi this Tassadar can gimme dat shield to engage". They fight, as most players do, they lose as the majority of teams without a real support do, and then they say "Wish we'd had Brightwing/Uther/Rehgar instead". There's not a lot of learning or introspection going on.
Your point of view on everything is like a literal deep dive into shit most people never consider when playing this video game. ~60% or more of the player base will never even make it past like 2200 MMR. You have to realize that people don't approach it the same. Its not that your advice or perspective is bad, its just that some of this stuff you say is like coming from a brain surgeon trying to explain to the phlebotomist how to perform an embolization to stave off an aneurysm. They nod and smile and forget that shit and go back to taking blood.
Gold builds up fast, especially early on when you are just starting out. Level the free rotation heroes to 5 and do quests. Then Buy the heroes that interest you the most and have fun!
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
My man, I don't see a request! Yoshichan#2623
If Illidan and you're just starting out, at least 3 or 4. If Valla, probably not double figures until late game most of the time.
Weird, I just sent you another one.
15K first 2 weeks, 10K after. To drive cash sales.
Heroes always start out at 15k. That's just the way it works. After two weeks they drop to 10k.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
How fast do characters drop in price? Lets say I am about to buy Anub for 4k but when could he drop to 2k?
Seems like 2k is the lowest price. Also, should I not expect cosmetic skins other than the master skins ever become available by gold?
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